I need some Singer advice

[Silkweed]

Well, AbstractCider, my Frenzy/WC barb made it to level 84 and managed to solo his way through the game. Which is something I'm rather happy about! Anyway, I've got a few characters on the go right now, including my lvl 50ish cold sorceress, Limefrost, but I plan on starting my singer barbarian, Tenor.

Here is how I picture him:

Tenor, Singer Barbarian

Strength: ~105 (Troll's Nest)
Dexterity: 75 or ~240
Vitality: Remaining Points
Mana: Base or 50

Warcry: 20
Battle Orders: 20
Shout: 20
Battlecry: 20
Taunt: Remaining Points
Leap Attack: 1
Nat. Res.: 5

Weapons: Wizardspike(s)
Switch: Warcry Throwing Weapons
Shield: "Sanctuary" Troll's Nest
Helm: Shako (if I can find another one)
Armor: Skin of the Vipermagi
Gloves: Frostburns
Boots: Possibly Nat's, Silks or Waters
Belt: Gloom's, Nightsmoke, Upg. Lenymo
Rings: SoJ's ideally, but more likely rings of the wyrm or bahamut
Amulet: WC/Mana amulet

The deal with poor Tenor here is that I am building him as what I am tentatively calling a "social" character. Just about all of my other characters are for solo play, but Tenor here is not designed to be able to kill things on his own. Rather he will be a support character for any parties lucky enough to be in the same game with him. He is there to make things easier, but won't be able to deal much death on his own.

My second issue is to do with whether or not I should use a shield or not. If not, I could easily go dual Wizzys, which would be kind of sick if I could pull it off. I would only need 75 in dex, so my life would be huge, especially after the high BO, to the tune of 5k+. Suddenly it's sounding appealing, but then of course there are some badassed things in Hell that require a shield, so there's that.

My main dilemma is to do with what kind of mercenary to use. I'm really in the dark here. The way I see it, I have three good choices:

Prayer: It'd be different for sure to have a high level prayer mercenary. It would heal party members, and it'd keep Tenor alive for when he couldn't stun things with WC.
Defiance: With a high level of Shout, who can say no to the defense boost?
Holy Freeze: For the slow, naturally.

I'm looking for a nice balance between being a support character and being able to hold my own should I become separated from the pack.

[Cleglaw_Himself]

I would choose Defiance, although Prayer would be interesting.

Maybe keep a Demon's limb in your inventory to enchant ur merc.

[Silkweed]

I think maybe I'll save prayer for a cleric someday. Defiance it is.

Any thoughts on the shield vs. no shield debate? Dual Wizzys would mean 4 mana for each level, 150 all res., 100% FCR, 30% mana regen and 30% more mana. That's a lot of mana, but it's also a lot of life gained through dexterity saved.

For max block with "Sanctuary" Troll's Nest (65% block), I'd need approximately 240 dex at level 99. Wizzy needs 75, so that's a difference of 165 stats, which translates into 660 life, which through BO translates roughly into 1320 life.

Hrmm... Let me think about this logically for a minute. Time to crunch some numbers.

[VaN_haMMerSteIn]

Idealy that stunning wc will make it so you don't need a shield right? The only thing you need a shield for is blocking. Which you don't REALLY need because you have sick life and stunned enemys. Since wiz spikes give you 150 res all if you have two of'em are skins really nessacary. You could always go for something with plus skills but more helpful stats. I don't have any other sugestions :S I haven't played in a while. I hope I helped.

[Silkweed]

Alright, I ran some numbers. I used a level 85 barb, because that seems to be about as high as my characters get before I stop playing them. I assumed Shako, Viper, BO Sticks and a +3 WC ammy for both templates.

Without Shield

Strength: 65
Dexterity: 75
Vitality: Remaining

3955 life after BO

With Shield and max block

Strength: 105
Dexterity: 240
Vitality: Remaining

2081 life after BO, a difference of 1874 life

Somehow though, I feel a lot safer with less life and full block than I do with more life and zero block, especially considering I won't be leeching any life. Dual wizzy's would be damn cool, but now that I think about it, it just isn't practical, not in Hardcore. My main concern is archers and things that can one hit KO me. While some people argue that elemental attacks are the most dangerous now (Gloams for instance), I disagree. I'm still far more concerned with seeing Might/Amp/ES zombies than I am of attacks that can often be absorbed outright.

That said, I took a look at the shields again, and for this particular build, I think "Rhyme" totally outdoes "Sanctuary." With Wizzy and Skins, I won't need the extra resists on Sanctuary, and the CBF on Rhyme saves me getting it somewhere else. The block is just as good, there's mana regen and the MF is gravy. It's a lot cheaper too!

[memememe173]

Prayer and dual wizzies would be my suggestion

[Silkweed]

Hammerstein, ideally yes. Practically, no. There are a lot of critters that are just immune to the effects of WC, which is where I'll run into problems. Champions, uniques, super uniques and act bosses come to mind. The other problem is with stunning things that aren't in range of my WC. Ranged attackers like quill rats and archers are going to be pelting me from a screen away and without a shield, I'll be toast. There's taunt of course, but I can only insult one monster at a time. While I scream "Your mom!" to one archer, seven of his closest buddies are still going to be interrupting my casting with their attacks.

It happens a lot to my frenzier. He'd be trying to get WC off to stun the melee monsters, but couldn't because the ranged attackers were interrupting him. A shield in this situation helps.

Also, Skins happen to be probably the best possible armor (aside from unattainable runewords like Enigma and CoH) for this build. What on earth would I swap them for? Even with Wizzy, Rhyme and 20 res skins, I'll have maxed resists in Hell after Natural Resistance and quests (and then some, they'll be 90+).

[kurg]

While I scream "Your mom!" to one archer, seven of his closest buddies are still going to be interrupting my casting with their attacks.

You probably already know this, but warcries are spells which are 'cast', so the 50% fcr on Wizzy will help a lot. With 2 wizzies it would be 100% fcr, right? Unfortunately I don't know the breakpoints for fcr for a barb.

If the barb is trying to cast a cry, but gets interrupted by being blocked/hit does faster hit recovery help more or faster cast rate? (I'm just curious if FCR or FHR would be better for that very real scenario you pose).

[rachil0]

Barb breakpoints are the same as sorc breakpoints for spell casting (WC casting). I'd prolly do dual wizardspikes and go for a defiant type character to avoid problems with ranged packs. Maybe like a gloom armor (with that dim vision) in something elite yet light. And use a defiance merc. That's just my opinion.

[MiTEG]

IIRC the fastest attainable cast rate is 105. It's pretty funny to play a warcry barb at that speed.

[Syxx]

Hi Silkweed,

Here's a suggestion for your SingerBarb .... Drop the Warcry and use the 20 point in Leap instead.

Maxed leap must be the most underutilized, overpowered crowd control skill in Diablo.... I kid you not. If you read the last couple of KTA 4.0 posting, you will hear about the LeaperBar in our party.

By constantly hopping up and down on the spot, entire rooms of monsters were pinned against the walls unable to do anything. Melee monsters were neutralized, and so were long range attackers incuding spell casting types. As long as the Barb keeps hopping the monsters are continueously stunned.

The downside of this build is you can't actually kill much yourself, as you are constantly leaping. However, in a party situation, this doesn't matter as your team can do the killing for you.

Just an idea.

Regards
Syxx

[almightyblade]

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If the barb is trying to cast a cry, but gets interrupted by being blocked/hit does faster hit recovery help more or faster cast rate? (I'm just curious if FCR or FHR would be better for that very real scenario you pose).
------------------------------------------------------

The FCR just shortens the length in between each cast. when hit/interupted the FHR recovers from the hit and than the FCR is than taken into accout again and more casts are made. They are deffinantly two seperate things but in dueling fhr is very important. Because if you are dueling another caster at 4pfs and you are at 105%fcr (4fps) than you will both (in theory) hit 50% (without blocking accounted for) but the person with more FHR fps will triumph!

NOTE: on singer barbs you should have at least the 86% fhr breakpoint and the 105% fcr breakpoint.

[Solwolf]

I got a Singer Baba, HR-Shakespeare, to level 80 or so in 1.09. I haven't really played him in 1.10, but here are my thoughts from my experience with him:

1) Stun does work on champs, if you have enough faster cast. dual wizzies and a vipermagi gives you a very fast cast speed, which is exactly what you need. That, and you'll need the mana from the wizzies. I went with base mana and practically all vit

2) with find potion, you can use full juvs like healing pots. I used to literally fill a mule with nothing but fulls. One run through a cleaned-out hell cow game and you're set.

3) With almost max vit, you'll have insane life. Forget the snarko and try to find a +2 baba, +3 BO helm if you can. I had one of those and I ended up with around level 41 BO on the switch, with only 2 WC charms in my inv.

4) I used a rogue as my merc, just for the lightning hose. I'm not sure if 1.10 removed it or not, but she was a remarkable killer. Even if you just get a cold rogue, the elem damage will help immensly against the warcry-immune PI's

5) Leap attack is your friend. Leap to the center of a group of baddies and start yellin'. Once you have them stunned, you'll only need to yell once every couple of seconds to keep 'em stunned. You can recast BO or Shout (mine is a lovely level 38 IIRC) whilst you keep a crowd immobile for the killers.

6) Singers are fun! Other than my first real HC Char, Shakespeare is my favorite D2 char of all time. I've still got him, too :)

[memememe173]

Hi Silkweed,

Here's a suggestion for your SingerBarb .... Drop the Warcry and use the 20 point in Leap instead.

Maxed leap must be the most underutilized, overpowered crowd control skill in Diablo.... I kid you not. If you read the last couple of KTA 4.0 posting, you will hear about the LeaperBar in our party.

By constantly hopping up and down on the spot, entire rooms of monsters were pinned against the walls unable to do anything. Melee monsters were neutralized, and so were long range attackers incuding spell casting types. As long as the Barb keeps hopping the monsters are continueously stunned.

The downside of this build is you can't actually kill much yourself, as you are constantly leaping. However, in a party situation, this doesn't matter as your team can do the killing for you.

Just an idea.

Regards
Syxx
With out War Cry it's not a singer barb


Que-Hagen's Wisdom > Vipermagi if you go with 2 wizzies

[Aerath]

Well - you said he'd be for party play.

In that case, I can assume the party would like to take care of some baddies, so you probably could get away without a shield.

Also, if you play in a party, I'd suggest a Prayer merc. Simple reason - everyone and their mother (not to mention their dog) are using either Might, Defiance or Holy Freeze mercs (or Mercs with Doom). You can be fairly certain your Prayer merc -won't- be in use, so that way you'll be adding another useful aura to the party. Sure, in solo play one of the other options would add more to your character, but I think there'd be a better chance for your merc to have some other use than meatshield/killer as a Prayer merc than anything else.

[Silkweed]

Dual Wizzys it is! I have a feeling I'm going to need the FCR and the mana. I also agree about the Que-Hegan comment, it would be more suitable for a Wizzy user. I'll have to see about trading for one, which could be a little bit of a hassle, but we'll see.

I've already started Tenor, and as of last night he hit level 19. I was building him with the shield in mind though, but now that I've changed my mind again, I was so relieved to find that I have only put 65 strength on him so far, anymore would be excess (65 is Silkweaves).

I will try my best to find a +2 barb, +3 BO helm, but it's rather unlikely. Even a shako is farfetched just now, so it'll probably be P Crown until I can find something good.

I'm still debating about putting any points into find potion and item. I've never found much use for them in the past, but then I remember a time where I never used taunt either, so there's that. I suppose I could spare a couple of points that would otherwise go to taunt in order to find some juvies.

[5zigen]

personally i suggest less shout, and dual suicide branches, less shout and more taunt. I guess i would perfer this setup if i was more rich, (um'ed viper, umed shako, nat res, and a +barb ammy w/ res or maras and you would have no resistance troubles, in fact even without the ums you could get away with it because of natural resistance). anyhow just a thought, the +skills and +life on suicde is nice tho.

reason being that taunt increases your dammage, and shout doesnt, also, you could use a defiance merc to make up for the lack of defense.

oh yeah, and battle cry ect works well on champs to reduce thier dmg.

honestly, i imagine running around shouting and battle ordering all the time would get boring, (considering you only need to do it every couple minutes), thats why i suggest a higher dmg route.

[Silkweed]

With maxed BC and WC, WC damage is 348-371. With the Taunt synergy, it's 519-553. A difference of less than 200, which to me isn't critical. I'm more concerned with stun duration, as the idea is that allies will (or merc if need be) will be doing the dirty work.

The thing about shout is that if I'm going to be a singer and support character, I might as well get a really high shout on top of a really high BO. People are going to like having this character around. Hell, maybe people will even hire me to BO/Shout them before duels and stuff.

I plan on using the prayer merc, since it's unorthodox.