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fallen angel of satan
21-05-2004, 10:26
Hi

In each section I will say what is good for pvp and what is good for pvm

Before I start I would like to say that ias is not a key point here, I think that the axes are fast enough for bvb and double throw speed is very nice as it is.

1) Stats
2) Stats summary
3) Skills
4) Skills summary
5) Items
6) Item summary
7) Sockets
8) Mercenary
9) General tips
10) Specific tips


1) Stats

This is a hard part to write about, for the soul reason that some people cant afford the higher level items and so need more (or less) strength

Sit down before you make your char and decide what they are going to use at about level 85(this level is easy to get to even with a naked char)(just use public baal runs) and decide how much strength they need and how much they get from the equipment

strength: the minimum you can possibly have. I have 135 base strength, (I have it so high because I don’t use enigma, and since BoTD cant be put in throwing weapons I don’t get the bonus from that either, I also use steelrend and so needed the 185 strength for that

Dexterity: If you are going to use a shield get enough dexterity for max block, If no shield then I would probably advise around (150-200) dexterity

Vitality: Everything else

Energy: Base, even if you don’t use any mana leach, with battle orders on you still never need to use a mana pot, so putting points in energy is completely pointless like almost all melee builds

2) Stats summary

Strength: Minimum
Dexterity:150-200(or max block)
Vitality: everything else
Energy: Base

3) Skills

Here come a few routes that you can take.

pvm, barb v all other classes or bvb

pvm I advise the following

Max double throw: this only gives attack rating bonus, but without it you will probably find yourself struggling to hit hell minions a bit too much (I prefer over 85% chance to hit at all times, helps for life leach and so helps to keep you alive)

Max double swing: this is wear you get your enhanced damage (and again some obvious statements here, this helps you kill faster and helps you life leach and therefore your capacity at staying alive)

Max battle orders: we all know why to get this one (for the new people it gives you insane life)

1 point in Battle command: that 1 point gives you +1 skills everywhere else so definitely worth that 1 point.

Max throwing mastery: increases damage and attack rating, a definite must have.

These are should what you should go for 1st. You will be about level 71(assuming you have done all skill quests in norm/nm/hell)(this includes pre requisites)

Now the rest is dependant on your build.

If you need elemental attack get 1 point in berserk if you have a good percentage chance to cast amplify damage this removes the immunity so you will not need berserk.

If you need resists natural resists (a few points, I would say up to about level 11, any more and the bonuses diminish badly, about level 13 with skills)

A couple of points in increased speed would be useful (but again not many points because of the diminishing returns)

Frenzy is a good 1 pointer for the increased run walk speed and increased attack speed.

When using frenzy and berserk attack rating can be a problem therefore 1 point in the respective mastery will help you hit at a decent rate

Whirlwind this is a possible to get out of clumps that are hurting you, but it requires spending additional points the pre requisites. So I recommend Howl to just make the clump run away from you, and this is a prerequisite to battle orders, so you have already

Battle cry is a good 1 pointer, useful for dealing with particularly hard clumps of monsters, or if your attack rating is a bit too low

Grim ward is good if you need a safe haven to throw axes from or a safe havens for other ranged attackers to sit in.

Taunt is good to tempt enemies away from your mates

If you don’t need any of these then you can always put points in shout, this helps battle orders length and you increases your def hugely, although for pvm I do not think defence is the key

Barb v all other classes

This build is very similar, although I do advise using your points above level 71 in things like shout, which will help fighting barbs or other melee chars

Pure bvb

For bvb I personally think you need to scrap double throw.

Spend the points in iron skin and shout instead and your left over points in the natural resists or increased speed.

The rest of the points are your choice, you could put a few points in double throw and double wing so that you are better at pvm as well or if you like the look of a different skill, then go ahead

4) Skills summary

BvB

Iron skin: 20
Shout: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest is your choice, I have listed some recommendations above

BvAll

Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest in shout

Pvm

Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest is down to what your characters weaknesses are, I have listed some choices above. If nothing else shout is very good.

5)items

I am going to rank each item for BvB BvAll and PvM 1. is BvB 1. BvAll 1. PvM

I am treating godly crafted items the same as godly rares, because the stats that can be got on each are very similar.

This is the hard section, because we cant all afford enigma or eth arky, I will do my best to try and find relatively poor items as well

Helm

pvp and pvm personal favourite Arreats face This helm has life leach, strength, dexterity, skills, faster hit recovery, percentage attack rating bonus and quite nice defence. Also the best thing is that it isn’t that hard to get hold of. 1. 1. 1.

Gaze this helm has damage reduction, life leach, mana leach, very nice helm if you cant get hold of arreats. 5. 5. 5.

Shako personally I think you are better off with gaze, + skills aren’t the key point of this build, neither is magic find and +2 to all attributes aren’t that amazing. Although it does give nice life. 6. 6. 6.

Crown of Ages a very nice helm, but expensive, if you can get this then you can get arreats and I personally think arreats is better 3. 3. 3.

Andariel’s visage: same applies as with Crown of Ages 2. 2. 2.

Enhanced damaged//increased attack speed helm This helm is good if you want more increased attack speed and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recommend it if your other areas are strong, i.e. good resists or good life etc. 4. 4. 4.

For a cheaper version you could probably use Crown of thieves, life, dexterity and very nice life leach 7. 7. 7.

Amulet

pvm atma's amulet, the amplify damage is very nice5. 5. 1.

pvp angelic (with the rings the attack rating bonus is amazing) and some life. 1. 1. 5.

Highlords very nice increased attack speed and deadly strike, but personally I would rather have amplify damage than deadly strike, that’s why I chose atma's. 2. 2. 2.

Mara’s kaleidoscope amulet has resists skills and 5 to all attributes, it is nice but I don’t think the right amulet for this build4. 4. 3.

For a cheaper amulet I would go for Cats eye run/walk increased attack speed dexterity and defence, altogether good amulet3. 3. 4.

Armor

pvm chains of honour skills, life leach, strength, resists a bit of damage reduction and some magic find, very nice pvm armour4. 2. 1.

bvb ethereal arky very nice defence lots of vitality and some faster hit recovery, not much more you need really. 1. 5. 8.

barb v all enigma, teleport is just too useful (unless of course you are clan duelling when it is bad manners most of the time) 6. 1. 3.

Gladiator’s bane nice defence, cannot be frozen and faster hit recovery nice armour and cheap. 7. 7. 9.

Templars might In its ethereal version can have very nice defence but needs insane strength. 3. 6. 5.

tyrial's might faster run walk, strength, resists, cannot be frozen and no strength requirement, nice armour, but very expensive and personally id rather go for things like ethereal arky. 11. 11. 11.

Enhanced damage//increased attack speed armour This armour is good if you want more increased attack speed and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recommend it if your other areas are strong, i.e. good resists or good life etc. 5. 3. 2.

Crow caw is decent cheap armour. It has dexterity, increased attack speed, faster hot recovery and open wounds. Altogether nice armour, and above all it is easy to come by9. 4. 4. .

Some high defence eth rares could be very good, but the defence wont go as high as stone and will be a lot rarer so you are better off with stone. 8. 10. 10.

Stone armour you can get insane defence here and if you are willing to remake it all the time an eth version can have godly defence for bvb when they are low durability trade it on or use it on a mercenary. 2. 9. 6.

cheap armour shaft damage reduction and life, very nice armour, underestimated a lot at the moment. 10. 8. 7.

weapons

Here you have a choice to make, either you can use javelins and have a larger range, but in my opinion slightly worse mods or axes, this is where you choice based on your style of play. Both have advantages.

Axes

Gimmershred for pvm the elemental damage is so very useful, along with some increaded attack speed. 2. 2. 1.

Lacerator for pvp fast amp damage and open wounds. 1. 1. 2.

Warshrike[B] you can get insane speeds with these. Plus you get deadly strike and piercing attack. Although the damage isn’t as great as the other two axes. 4. 4. 4.

[B]Blood axes can have some very nice mods, + the base ones (35-60% enhanced damage)(1-4% life leach)(10-20 life) 3. 3. 3.

Ethereal Gimmershred is bad because it does not replenish quantity, but if you are willing to wait for the lacerator to replenish every now and again, then ethereal versions are more than viable

If you want to be able to kill then there aren’t really any more options. So if you are going for a cheap build then the highest damage things you can find probably your best bet is upgraded scalper

Javalins

Demon’s Arch there is some nice elemental damage on these and some life leach, plus it has replenish quantity so an eth version is viable to use. 4. 4. 4.

Wraith flight this weapon has nice damage but the base attack speed is too slow in my opinion. 6. 6. 6.

Pvm and PvP Gargoyles bite has too low damage in comparison to the axes although it does have replenish quantity so an ethereal version could be nice, although I would prefer an ethereal Lacerator instead of an ethereal gargoyles bite1. 1. 1.


As for rares if you can afford them something like
Godly enhanced damage
Increased attack speed
Then just any other nice mods like knockback, life leach, enhanced damagev undead/demons.
And then if you can afford them ethereal(with replenish quantitity)
With the right mods a rare like this can beat the uniques, but the big disadvantage is the price tag attached to them. Tehir main problem for pvm as well is the lack of elemental damage. 2. 2. 2.



Safety javelins enhance your defence a bit, but other than that their Base mods aren’t that great. 3. 3. 3.

Cruel winged harpoons have nice damage and decent base speed, although they lack some of the advantages of the axes, elemental damage being the main point. Also there speed isn’t as great. These are probably your cheapest javelin option5. 5. 5.

switch

2 echoing weapons for battle orders 2. 2. 2.

demon limb good for enchant this adds some fire damage and some attack rating, but id rather have a higher level battle orders. 3. 3. 3.

Dual HoTO good if you want to teleport as well, because it gives the same boost to warcries, but also gives you more mana and faster cast rate, which is very useful for teleport, but it is very expensive1. 1. 1. (this rank is based on their use, personally I don’t think its worth the expense it costs you, but it is the best switch.

Shield(for bvb) (only recommended for pure bvb otherwise go for 2 throwing weapons)

My choice is storm, nice block, nice damage reduction, nice resists, nice def, not much more you need from a shield. 1. 1. 1.

Whitsan’s guard is another viable option for its immense block. 2. 2. 2.

belt

All pvp, pvm verdungos damage reduction and vitality and not bad def this + Storm gets you max damage reduction( as long as it has perfect damage reduction{15%})1. 1. 1.

Razortail in clumps piecing attack is so very nice + you get some more damage always a good thing3. 3. 2.

Thunder Gods good for gloams or annoying trap assassins etc, J + you get great strength and vitality4. 4. 3.

Nosferatu's Coil increased attack speed, strength, life leach and slow target great belt, but bad manners in pvp. 2. 2. 4.

cheap option String of Ears damage reduction and life leach a nice cheap belt5. 5. 5.

Rings

pvm 1x raven frost cannot be from, dexterity and attack rating, good rings + some cold absorb which is always useful. 2. 2. 2.

pvm 1x duel leach ring with attack rating if you can get and if you are lucky enough then resists make it the perfect choice. 3. 3. 1.

Manald good for mana leach if you cant get a duel leach ring6. 6. 3.

high life leach ring if you cant get duel leech again7. 7. 3.

pvp 2x angelic for bvb the attack rating bonus is insane (1x angelic 1x raven for bvall) 1. 1. 3.

Bul Kathos wedding Band ring is very nice, life leach life and skills, but quite expensive. 4. 4. 3.

Stones of Jordan’s are useful for battle orders but I advise switching after you have used battle orders5. 5. 3.

Cheap options I’m not going to give something specific here because both raven frost and angelic are cheap already.

boots

pvm and pvp gore riders the chances for insane damage with these beasts is immense, my favourite boots of all time for melee chars lol. 1. 1. 1.

War travellers nice damage life and vitality and some mf, good if you cant get gore riders and have a spare pair. 2. 2. 2.

Sandstorn trek Nice strength and vitality, but personally I don’t like these boots that much. 3. 3. 3.

Immortal King boots not bad boots, life attack rating and nice faster run/walk, good in combo with gloves because you get increased attack speed bonus too. 4. 4. 4.

Cheap option Waterwalk, great boots life and dexterity and some max fire resist. 5. 5. 5.


gloves

pvm dracul's life tap is a godsend, but I would use highlords amulet in combo with these instead of atma's because only one curse can be active at once and you get strength life leach and open wounds, on the whole godly pvm gloves. 2. 2. 1.

pvp steelrend strength enhanced damage and crushing blow, very nice gloves1. 1. 2.

Immortal king gloves in combo with boots for increased attack speed + strength and other decent bonuses6. 6. 6.

Souldrainer mana leach, life leach, -50 monster def per hit and chance to cast weaken, nice gloves5. 5. 5.

Laying of Hands great gloves in pvm, very nice damage v demons and increased attack speed, as an added bonus there is also nice fire resist. This could be used instead of dracul’s if you have a lot of life leach, because then you don’t need dracul’s life tap and the other bonuses equal it out with dracul’s. 3. 3. 3.

As for rares, you want increased attack speed, knockback, life leach and any other nice mods like strength or resists, but personally I prefer dracul’s and steelrend4. 4. 4.

Cheap option is probably Immortal King gloves with or without the boots7. 7. 7.

charms

1x annihilus

3/xx/15-20sc for the rest

Cheaper options are Warcry or Combat skiller and life charms

If you are not using enigma for teleport then I advise getting some faster run/walk charms. Aim for around 110% run/walk with the skill increased speed, this is fast enough to be able to get out of the way of hammerdins before they can tele/hammer you.

If your resists aren’t great you can get some resist charms too

fallen angel of satan
21-05-2004, 10:27
To check out the ias breakpoints this site is very useful

http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

Another useful site for some breakpoints (like FHR and FCR)

http://wirsz.phpwebhosting.com/General.htm


6) Item summary


Expensive

BvB

Helm: Arrest face
Armour: Ethereal arky
Weapon: Lacerator
Shield: Storm
Amulet: Angelic
Ring1: Angelic
Ring2: Angelic
Boots: Gore riders
Gloves: Steelrend
Belt: Verdungo’s

BvAll

Helm: Arreats face
Armour: Enigma
Weapon: Lacerator
Weapon2: Lacerator
Amulet: Angelic
Ring1: Angelic
Ring2: Angelic
Boots: Gore riders
Gloves: Steelrend
Belt: Verdungo’s

PvM

Helm: Arreats face
Armour: Chains of honour
Weapon: Gimmershred
Weapon2: Gimmershred
Amulet: Atma’s
Ring1: Raven frost
Ring2: Dual leach ring
Boots: Gore riders
Gloves: Dracul’s
Belt: Verdungo’s

Cheap


BvB

Helm: Crown of thieves (although this isn’t that great)
Armour: Crow Caw
Weapon: upgraded scalper
Shield: Whitstans guard
Amulet: Angelic
Ring1: Angelic
Ring2: Angelic
Boots: Immortal King boots
Gloves: Immortal King gloves
Belt: String of ears

BvAll

Helm: Crown of thieves
Armour: Crow Caw
Weapon: upgraded scalper
Weapon2: upgraded scalper
Amulet: Angelic
Ring1: Angelic
Ring2: Angelic
Boots: Immortal King boots
Gloves: Immortal King gloves
Belt: String of ears

PvM

Helm: Crown of thieves
Armour: Crow Caw
Weapon: upgraded scalper
Weapon2: upgradd scalper
Amulet: Atma’s
Ring1: life leach ring
Ring2: Manald heal ring
Boots: Immortal King boots
Gloves: Immortal King gloves
Belt: String of ears

7) sockets

This part has to complement your char

If you are pvm or bvall then resists are important so um runes are v nice

If your resists are max then go for enhanced damage///increased attack speed jewels

and of course if the item is eth then stick zod in

that is about all you need to know really, btw if you didn’t know you can’t stick sockets in throwing weapons

8) mercenary

pvm act2 might merc nm offensive this is a godsend for your damage

pvp act1 fire rogue

as for equip

act2 merc

gaze(um) shaft(um) bonehew(amn, hel)

With a perfect gaze they have max damage reduction and have some life leach, the hel rune is because bonehew needs a large amount of strength, when their base strength is high enough replace with amn
The um runes are because mercenaries seem to struggle to max resists in hell
Life leach is godly for a pvm mercenary

If you cant get this stuff then any high damage weapon loads of life leach on helm and something like lionheart armour

act1 rogue

wind force(ohm)
shaft(um)
gaze(um)

shaft and gaze same reason as for pvm and wind force because this is the best bow in the game

Cheaper options same as for act2 mercenary except high damage bow, not spear

9) general tips

You are a barb therefore you can tank, don’t act as if you are playing your Amazon and always run away, drag the monster off the weaker (faster killing) chars like sorceresses onto yourself (taunt is good for this)

Axes have a limited range so don’t stand too far away

Keep your battle orders active

In bvb you can dodge out of the way of their whirlwinds and throw axes at them before they can stop. Or if they are weak then just tank them, J hehe.

Use grim ward as a little safe haven if you find yourself getting hurt too much.

Battle cry is good if you struggle to hit the enemy, it also just helps everyone kill faster.

If you are duelling casters or other ranged attackers then use the buildings and walls that are all around the blood moor. Lay in wait for them to come to you, that way, you can attack before they have finished their teleport or have stopped and aimed

If you are duelling melee chars then the areas of swamps are good to hide behind, because they have to go around to attack you.

10) Specific tips

This section is just ideas on how you can have a better chance against these classes, but really the best techniques are the ones you learn for yourself because you will always be able to perform them more fluently.

Vs whirlwind: Wait till they start whirlwind then quickly move out of the way and then start throwing, just keep dodging and they wont get you much. If the other barb knows what he is doing then you wont have much time to dodge. If you are pure BvB you should be able to tank the whirlwind anyways.

Vs other throwing barbs: Throwing weapons are slow so just keep running and throw at where he is going to be not where he is now.

Vs fire sorc: Same with as against other throwing barbs, except I advise quite a bit of fire resists otherwise you will go down quickly.

Vs blizzard sorc: These guys are hard, they will make short work of your hp, so basically move in quickly and then get away from them, if you try to stand and tank I doubt you will win.

Vs orb sorc: Good resists can soon make sure orb doesn’t hurt much. Also they are vulnerable when they use orb, because they have to be close and they have to pause to cast it, so try and time your teleport/running so that you miss most of their blow but can throw at them while they are stuck for that 1 second or whatever.

Vs bone necro: The only thing I can say here is you can outrun bone spirit and can dodge Bone spear. The hard part is if you don’t have teleport and they use bone prison, you can either use leap to get out of there or if you do enough damage destroy the prison, I only recommend the second route if it dies in 1 maybe 2 hits.

Vs poison necro: Similar to bone necro except get loads of poison resists otherwise your masses of hp will be gone in seconds. Also when you are close enough to attack it is hard to dodge the poison. Then just throw your axes where they are going to be.


Vs hammerdin: don’t get too close, if they teleport next to you, run away, their hammers will make mincemeat of you. Basically keep a random movement going, only pausing to attack, try to make every throw count.

Vs charger: Use buildings or other things around the place to block the charge and then come out and attack up close. Once the main charge is done they aren’t that hard to bring down.

Vs foh: Stacked resists and a lot of them if you want to tank this *****. As for tactics get in and out fast.

Vs wind druid: Stand back a bit form them, you don’t need to worry much about hurricane, and if you keep your distance the tornado’s are so random that even if you don’t dodge them I doubt any will hit you.

Vs shape shifting druid: Theses guys are going to run faster than you and probably have insane attack rating and life. Your best chance is probably just to stand there and throw at them. I doubt their defence will be that high though so you will probably hit every time.

Vs Trapsin: Run in a spiral towards them until in range then run throw run throw etc. Of course resists are preffered.

Vs whirlwind assassin: Treat the same as a whirlwind barb.

Vs javazon: These guys can hurt when they are close and run quickly. Not much tips here except resists and keep moving. They pause slightly too attack, but it isn’t much of an advantage.

Vs bowzon: Run in a spiral towards them, their guided arrows have ignore target defence which isn’t good for you. Also most amass around now have godly gear, because they are so expensive to make in this patch. You just have to hope you kill her before she kills you really

You will have noticed that I have not mentioned absorb at all, this is because it is Bm. Also I think the most important note for dueling is you axes have a short range and are slow, So you have to be quite close and aim where they are going to be not where they are at the moment

Other than this it is all down to personal experience, so just get out there and try this char and good luck.

10) FAQs

Is enigmas teleport actually worth it? This is a very tricky question because it relates to your style of duelling. It is very useful just as one off to teleport into an attacking position or to get away from danger. The main problem is the cast rate, duel HoTO can come in useful on switch here but in my opinion is too expensive for the advantages. In my opinion enigma is worth it just for the odd teleport to get you an advantage.

Javalins or axes? again this is based on you playing style, but I find that the axes have better mods, and I get close when I use javelins anyways, so axes suit me better.

How much ias? The breakpoints at first are very low, so I advise getting a bit more speed, but I don’t think it is worth getting every last piece of ias, since double throw is fast as it is.

Richard

With thanks to superhal, boochie61, Kirby Hunter, Umantarget, holabuster, endlessj, memememe173 and Kaffe for there advice.

fallen angel of satan
21-05-2004, 10:30
sorry about the delay for this version, its been hard to find the time to edit it, as before post any questions or complaints and I will answer or edit as best I can. enjoy

sir goatscelot
22-05-2004, 00:09
Hi

In each section I will say what is good for pvp and what is good for pvm

Before I start I would like to say that ias is not a key point here, I think that the axes are fast enough for bvb and double throw speed is very nice as it is.

1) Stats
2) Stats summary
3) Skills
4) Skills summary
5) Items
6) Item summary
7) Sockets
8) Mercenary
9) General tips
10) Specific tips


1) Stats

This is a hard part to write about, for the soul reason that some people cant afford the higher level items and so need more (or less) strength

Sit down before you make your char and decide what they are going to use at about level 85(this level is easy to get to even with a naked char)(just use public baal runs) and decide how much strength they need and how much they get from the equipment

strength: the minimum you can possibly have. I have 135 base strength, (I have it so high because I don’t use enigma, and since BoTD cant be put in throwing weapons I don’t get the bonus from that either, I also use steelrend and so needed the 185 strength for that

Dexterity: If you are going to use a shield get enough dexterity for max block, If no shield then I would probably advise around (150-200) dexterity

Vitality: Everything else

Energy: Base, even if you don’t use any mana leach, with battle orders on you still never need to use a mana pot, so putting points in energy is completely pointless like almost all melee builds

2) Stats summary

Strength: Minimum
Dexterity:150-200(or max block)
Vitality: everything else
Energy: Base

3) Skills

Here come a few routes that you can take.

pvm, barb v all other classes or bvb

pvm I advise the following

Max double throw: this only gives attack rating bonus, but without it you will probably find yourself struggling to hit hell minions a bit too much (I prefer over 85% chance to hit at all times, helps for life leach and so helps to keep you alive)

Max double swing: this is wear you get your enhanced damage (and again some obvious statements here, this helps you kill faster and helps you life leach and therefore your capacity at staying alive)

Max battle orders: we all know why to get this one (for the new people it gives you insane life)

1 point in Battle command: that 1 point gives you +1 skills everywhere else so definitely worth that 1 point.

Max throwing mastery: increases damage and attack rating, a definite must have.

These are should what you should go for 1st. You will be about level 71(assuming you have done all skill quests in norm/nm/hell)(this includes pre requisites)

Now the rest is dependant on your build.

If you need elemental attack get 1 point in berserk if you have a good percentage chance to cast amplify damage this removes the immunity so you will not need berserk.

If you need resists natural resists (a few points, I would say up to about level 11, any more and the bonuses diminish badly, about level 13 with skills)

A couple of points in increased speed would be useful (but again not many points because of the diminishing returns)

Frenzy is a good 1 pointer for the increased run walk speed and increased attack speed.

When using frenzy and berserk attack rating can be a problem therefore 1 point in the respective mastery will help you hit at a decent rate

Whirlwind this is a possible to get out of clumps that are hurting you, but it requires spending additional points the pre requisites. So I recommend Howl to just make the clump run away from you, and this is a prerequisite to battle orders, so you have already

Battle cry is a good 1 pointer, useful for dealing with particularly hard clumps of monsters, or if your attack rating is a bit too low

Grim ward is good if you need a safe haven to throw axes from or a safe havens for other ranged attackers to sit in.

Taunt is good to tempt enemies away from your mates

If you don’t need any of these then you can always put points in shout, this helps battle orders length and you increases your def hugely, although for pvm I do not think defence is the key

Barb v all other classes

This build is very similar, although I do advise using your points above level 71 in things like shout, which will help fighting barbs or other melee chars

Pure bvb

For bvb I personally think you need to scrap double throw.

Spend the points in iron skin and shout instead and your left over points in the natural resists or increased speed.

The rest of the points are your choice, you could put a few points in double throw and double wing so that you are better at pvm as well or if you like the look of a different skill, then go ahead

4) Skills summary

BvB

Iron skin: 20
Shout: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest is your choice, I have listed some recommendations above

BvAll

Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest in shout

Pvm

Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1
The rest is down to what your characters weaknesses are, I have listed some choices above. If nothing else shout is very good.

5)items

I am going to rank each item for BvB BvAll and PvM 1. is BvB 1. BvAll 1. PvM

I am treating godly crafted items the same as godly rares, because the stats that can be got on each are very similar.

This is the hard section, because we cant all afford enigma or eth arky, I will do my best to try and find relatively poor items as well

Helm

pvp and pvm personal favourite Arreats face This helm has life leach, strength, dexterity, skills, faster hit recovery, percentage attack rating bonus and quite nice defence. Also the best thing is that it isn’t that hard to get hold of. 1. 1. 1.

Gaze this helm has damage reduction, life leach, mana leach, very nice helm if you cant get hold of arreats. 5. 5. 5.

Shako personally I think you are better off with gaze, + skills aren’t the key point of this build, neither is magic find and +2 to all attributes aren’t that amazing. Although it does give nice life. 6. 6. 6.

Crown of Ages a very nice helm, but expensive, if you can get this then you can get arreats and I personally think arreats is better 3. 3. 3.

Andariel’s visage: same applies as with Crown of Ages 2. 2. 2.

Enhanced damaged//increased attack speed helm This helm is good if you want more increased attack speed and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recommend it if your other areas are strong, i.e. good resists or good life etc. 4. 4. 4.

For a cheaper version you could probably use Crown of thieves, life, dexterity and very nice life leach 7. 7. 7.

Amulet

pvm atma's amulet, the amplify damage is very nice5. 5. 1.

pvp angelic (with the rings the attack rating bonus is amazing) and some life. 1. 1. 5.

Highlords very nice increased attack speed and deadly strike, but personally I would rather have amplify damage than deadly strike, that’s why I chose atma's. 2. 2. 2.

Mara’s kaleidoscope amulet has resists skills and 5 to all attributes, it is nice but I don’t think the right amulet for this build4. 4. 3.

For a cheaper amulet I would go for Cats eye run/walk increased attack speed dexterity and defence, altogether good amulet3. 3. 4.

Armor

pvm chains of honour skills, life leach, strength, resists a bit of damage reduction and some magic find, very nice pvm armour4. 2. 1.

bvb ethereal arky very nice defence lots of vitality and some faster hit recovery, not much more you need really. 1. 5. 8.

barb v all enigma, teleport is just too useful (unless of course you are clan duelling when it is bad manners most of the time) 6. 1. 3.

Gladiator’s bane nice defence, cannot be frozen and faster hit recovery nice armour and cheap. 7. 7. 9.

Templars might In its ethereal version can have very nice defence but needs insane strength. 3. 6. 5.

tyrial's might faster run walk, strength, resists, cannot be frozen and no strength requirement, nice armour, but very expensive and personally id rather go for things like ethereal arky. 11. 11. 11.

Enhanced damage//increased attack speed armour This armour is good if you want more increased attack speed and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recommend it if your other areas are strong, i.e. good resists or good life etc. 5. 3. 2.

Crow caw is decent cheap armour. It has dexterity, increased attack speed, faster hot recovery and open wounds. Altogether nice armour, and above all it is easy to come by9. 4. 4. .

Some high defence eth rares could be very good, but the defence wont go as high as stone and will be a lot rarer so you are better off with stone. 8. 10. 10.

Stone armour you can get insane defence here and if you are willing to remake it all the time an eth version can have godly defence for bvb when they are low durability trade it on or use it on a mercenary. 2. 9. 6.

cheap armour shaft damage reduction and life, very nice armour, underestimated a lot at the moment. 10. 8. 7.

weapons

Here you have a choice to make, either you can use javelins and have a larger range, but in my opinion slightly worse mods or axes, this is where you choice based on your style of play. Both have advantages.

Axes

Gimmershred for pvm the elemental damage is so very useful, along with some increaded attack speed. 2. 2. 1.

Lacerator for pvp fast amp damage and open wounds. 1. 1. 2.

Warshrike[B] you can get insane speeds with these. Plus you get deadly strike and piercing attack. Although the damage isn’t as great as the other two axes. 4. 4. 4.

[B]Blood axes can have some very nice mods, + the base ones (35-60% enhanced damage)(1-4% life leach)(10-20 life) 3. 3. 3.

Ethereal Gimmershred is bad because it does not replenish quantity, but if you are willing to wait for the lacerator to replenish every now and again, then ethereal versions are more than viable

If you want to be able to kill then there aren’t really any more options. So if you are going for a cheap build then the highest damage things you can find probably your best bet is upgraded scalper

Javalins

Demon’s Arch there is some nice elemental damage on these and some life leach, plus it has replenish quantity so an eth version is viable to use. 4. 4. 4.

Wraith flight this weapon has nice damage but the base attack speed is too slow in my opinion. 6. 6. 6.

Pvm and PvP Gargoyles bite has too low damage in comparison to the axes although it does have replenish quantity so an ethereal version could be nice, although I would prefer an ethereal Lacerator instead of an ethereal gargoyles bite1. 1. 1.


As for rares if you can afford them something like
Godly enhanced damage
Increased attack speed
Then just any other nice mods like knockback, life leach, enhanced damagev undead/demons.
And then if you can afford them ethereal(with replenish quantitity)
With the right mods a rare like this can beat the uniques, but the big disadvantage is the price tag attached to them. Tehir main problem for pvm as well is the lack of elemental damage. 2. 2. 2.



Safety javelins enhance your defence a bit, but other than that their Base mods aren’t that great. 3. 3. 3.

Cruel winged harpoons have nice damage and decent base speed, although they lack some of the advantages of the axes, elemental damage being the main point. Also there speed isn’t as great. These are probably your cheapest javelin option5. 5. 5.

switch

2 echoing weapons for battle orders 2. 2. 2.

demon limb good for enchant this adds some fire damage and some attack rating, but id rather have a higher level battle orders. 3. 3. 3.

Dual HoTO good if you want to teleport as well, because it gives the same boost to warcries, but also gives you more mana and faster cast rate, which is very useful for teleport, but it is very expensive1. 1. 1. (this rank is based on their use, personally I don’t think its worth the expense it costs you, but it is the best switch.

Shield(for bvb) (only recommended for pure bvb otherwise go for 2 throwing weapons)

My choice is storm, nice block, nice damage reduction, nice resists, nice def, not much more you need from a shield. 1. 1. 1.

Whitsan’s guard is another viable option for its immense block. 2. 2. 2.

belt

All pvp, pvm verdungos damage reduction and vitality and not bad def this + Storm gets you max damage reduction( as long as it has perfect damage reduction{15%})1. 1. 1.

Razortail in clumps piecing attack is so very nice + you get some more damage always a good thing3. 3. 2.

Thunder Gods good for gloams or annoying trap assassins etc, J + you get great strength and vitality4. 4. 3.

Nosferatu's Coil increased attack speed, strength, life leach and slow target great belt, but bad manners in pvp. 2. 2. 4.

cheap option String of Ears damage reduction and life leach a nice cheap belt5. 5. 5.

Rings

pvm 1x raven frost cannot be from, dexterity and attack rating, good rings + some cold absorb which is always useful. 2. 2. 2.

pvm 1x duel leach ring with attack rating if you can get and if you are lucky enough then resists make it the perfect choice. 3. 3. 1.

Manald good for mana leach if you cant get a duel leach ring6. 6. 3.

high life leach ring if you cant get duel leech again7. 7. 3.

pvp 2x angelic for bvb the attack rating bonus is insane (1x angelic 1x raven for bvall) 1. 1. 3.

Bul Kathos wedding Band ring is very nice, life leach life and skills, but quite expensive. 4. 4. 3.

Stones of Jordan’s are useful for battle orders but I advise switching after you have used battle orders5. 5. 3.

Cheap options I’m not going to give something specific here because both raven frost and angelic are cheap already.

boots

pvm and pvp gore riders the chances for insane damage with these beasts is immense, my favourite boots of all time for melee chars lol. 1. 1. 1.

War travellers nice damage life and vitality and some mf, good if you cant get gore riders and have a spare pair. 2. 2. 2.

Sandstorn trek Nice strength and vitality, but personally I don’t like these boots that much. 3. 3. 3.

Immortal King boots not bad boots, life attack rating and nice faster run/walk, good in combo with gloves because you get increased attack speed bonus too. 4. 4. 4.

Cheap option Waterwalk, great boots life and dexterity and some max fire resist. 5. 5. 5.


gloves

pvm dracul's life tap is a godsend, but I would use highlords amulet in combo with these instead of atma's because only one curse can be active at once and you get strength life leach and open wounds, on the whole godly pvm gloves. 2. 2. 1.

pvp steelrend strength enhanced damage and crushing blow, very nice gloves1. 1. 2.

Immortal king gloves in combo with boots for increased attack speed + strength and other decent bonuses6. 6. 6.

Souldrainer mana leach, life leach, -50 monster def per hit and chance to cast weaken, nice gloves5. 5. 5.

Laying of Hands great gloves in pvm, very nice damage v demons and increased attack speed, as an added bonus there is also nice fire resist. This could be used instead of dracul’s if you have a lot of life leach, because then you don’t need dracul’s life tap and the other bonuses equal it out with dracul’s. 3. 3. 3.

As for rares, you want increased attack speed, knockback, life leach and any other nice mods like strength or resists, but personally I prefer dracul’s and steelrend4. 4. 4.

Cheap option is probably Immortal King gloves with or without the boots7. 7. 7.

charms

1x annihilus

3/xx/15-20sc for the rest

Cheaper options are Warcry or Combat skiller and life charms

If you are not using enigma for teleport then I advise getting some faster run/walk charms. Aim for around 110% run/walk with the skill increased speed, this is fast enough to be able to get out of the way of hammerdins before they can tele/hammer you.

If your resists aren’t great you can get some resist charms too


Good Job It's worth noting that the Char screen listed dmg is incorrect. It's a display error. Unfortuantely the only way to calculate the real dmg is to do it manually :(

Fray
22-05-2004, 02:55
Good guide. It was a good read too.
I'm a casual player and I am below what you call 'poor' but my buddy is giving me a glimmershred and a demon arch, so I'll be trying those out. I also found a def 947 Archon plate (magic blue armor). So, it should be some fun!

fallen angel of satan
22-05-2004, 09:51
:) thanx guys

sir goatsalot, thnx, ill put that in then

Fray we've all been there, much cheaper than the items I said there are vender bought items though, but it sounds like youve got a m8 that has at least played 4 a bit, the most important thing, enjoy yourself hehe

Hadriel
22-05-2004, 22:23
Well done, great guide.
Where do you people reccommend the leftover skill points in the PvM build be spent?

From the Guide:
Pvm
Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1

There are 110 skill points in the game if you get to level 99 and complete the den of evil, radaments lair and izual quests for each difficulty.
With this build there is a lot of free skills to spend, but where?
I don't think shout is neccesarry for this build as most of the time you won't be tanking, and the main concern will be magical attacks which your health can take care of. What do you people reccomend the skills be spent on? Battle Cry? not really that good because it reduces damage, but you won't be getting hit much, and decreases enemy defence, but your accuracy should be high. And how useful is War cry with the short radius and weak damage without synergies?
Any comments welcome. Thanks.

Superhal
22-05-2004, 22:42
Well done, great guide.
Where do you people reccommend the leftover skill points in the PvM build be spent?

From the Guide:
Pvm
Double throw: 20
Double swing: 20
Battle orders: 20
Battle Command: 1
Throwing mastery: 20
Battle Cry: 1

There are 110 skill points in the game if you get to level 99 and complete the den of evil, radaments lair and izual quests for each difficulty.
With this build there is a lot of free skills to spend, but where?
I don't think shout is neccesarry for this build as most of the time you won't be tanking, and the main concern will be magical attacks which your health can take care of. What do you people reccomend the skills be spent on? Battle Cry? not really that good because it reduces damage, but you won't be getting hit much, and decreases enemy defence, but your accuracy should be high. And how useful is War cry with the short radius and weak damage without synergies?
Any comments welcome. Thanks.

shout will also help protect your merc and partymembers, so it's still useful even if you are not directly tanking.

i'm cubing weps for one now. main weps will be plain cruel winged harpoons and/or glimmershed, demon arch, warshrikes, blah blah. switch will be a winged harpoon/shield, hopefully with a good damage/speed mod for ww.

Hadriel
22-05-2004, 23:04
shout will also help protect your merc and partymembers, so it's still useful even if you are not directly tanking.

i'm cubing weps for one now. main weps will be plain cruel winged harpoons and/or glimmershed, demon arch, warshrikes, blah blah. switch will be a winged harpoon/shield, hopefully with a good damage/speed mod for ww.

True, but even if you descide to max shout, then you still have loads of skill points left over. I think the main problem with this build is there are few definite good throw-barb skills, any others are designed for melee barbs and have limited use.
and why are you using whirlwind? You won't be able to get much damage with that unless you have a mastery, and even if you do it kind of defeats the point of making a throwing barb. But whatever, it's your character.
Any comments welcome, Thanks.

Superhal
22-05-2004, 23:11
it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. if i get a good wh, i'll throw a point in ww for it. if not, i won't. the main thing is having the shield. you can defeat any monster in the game with shield/conc (barring immunes of course.)

Hadriel
22-05-2004, 23:43
it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. if i get a good wh, i'll throw a point in ww for it. if not, i won't. the main thing is having the shield. you can defeat any monster in the game with shield/conc (barring immunes of course.)

sorry but, wh = ?

fallen angel of satan
23-05-2004, 10:04
Hadriel you say loads of free points, there are 82 points there + I think 2 pre req then if you count 1 in natural resists 1 in speed (+ another pre req) we are now on 87, after this I recomend shout because it increases bo length and is useful, but if you dont like shout then I have a section what to spend the rest of your points on. Things like natural resists if you have bad resists.

As for wh = winged harpoon

hope this explains where to put spare points. In fact looking through Ive missed out iron skin :o lol, once you have maxed shout you will be about lvl 96, your final three points are hard to be specific about it bcoz these should be based on the char you have made. I know this answer hasnt been great but that is because I cant predict wat you will need.

Thanks all for the complements:):)
Let me know how your char goes superhal

Hadriel
23-05-2004, 14:36
Hadriel you say loads of free points, there are 82 points there + I think 2 pre req then if you count 1 in natural resists 1 in speed (+ another pre req) we are now on 87, after this I recomend shout because it increases bo length and is useful, but if you dont like shout then I have a section what to spend the rest of your points on. Things like natural resists if you have bad resists.

As for wh = winged harpoon

hope this explains where to put spare points. In fact looking through Ive missed out iron skin :o lol, once you have maxed shout you will be about lvl 96, your final three points are hard to be specific about it bcoz these should be based on the char you have made. I know this answer hasnt been great but that is because I cant predict wat you will need.

Thanks all for the complements:):)
Let me know how your char goes superhal

fallen angel of satan, thanks for the reply.
I don't think natural resist because as you say the returns diminish as the skills go up, and most characters will have +skill items, so one point is defintley all that's needed.
Personally I might put the points in Shout and Battle cry, Battle cry doesn't have any synergies so you can make it good just by adding to it.
The bonus to other party members and particularly your merc who will probably be a melee merc from shout will be very useful though.
Good guide though mate, I think making non-cookie cutter characters you know characters which are more of a challenge and rarer is great fun.

Hadriel
23-05-2004, 18:18
From the PVP singer guide post:

"Throwing is bugged to do not nearly as much as displayed"

Is this true?

MaxPower
24-05-2004, 06:49
what are:
Gimmershred
Lacerator
Warshrike
Blood axes
Demon’s Arch
Wraith flight
Gargoyles bite

ive been looking all over diabloii.net for them but cant find them. can u either send a link to them or describe them please?
thank you very much.

ps it was a great guide. i enjoyed it a lot, good info!

binofury
24-05-2004, 06:56
what are:
Gimmershred
Lacerator
Warshrike
Blood axes
Demon’s Arch
Wraith flight
Gargoyles bite

ive been looking all over diabloii.net for them but cant find them. can u either send a link to them or describe them please?
thank you very much.

ps it was a great guide. i enjoyed it a lot, good info!

check This (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/elite/uthrowing.shtml) as well as This (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/elite/ujavelins.shtml)

fallen angel of satan
24-05-2004, 13:18
Thnx for the good replies, max power binofury's links should help you they are all unique items, except blood axes are crafted, if anyone else has any questions then ask away

Hadriel
24-05-2004, 14:42
From the PVP singer guide post:

"Throwing is bugged to do not nearly as much as displayed"

Is this true?

Herald of Doom
24-05-2004, 14:52
My friend can't use Lacerator (closed environment where chance to cast amp isnt allowed). Are eth upped warshrike the best then for BvB? I'm not good with trow barbs, so I thought I'd ask here :)

HoD

fallen angel of satan
24-05-2004, 15:18
If you can get a godly rare or crafted axe then they are better, after that I would go for warshrike yea.

Hadriel yea I believe that is true but I dont know any figures on it

Aerath
24-05-2004, 15:26
pvp and pvm personal favourite Arreats face This helm has life leach, strength, dexterity, skills, faster hit recovery, percentage attack rating bonus and quite nice defence. Also the best thing is that it isn’t that hard to get hold of. 1. 1. 1.

Gaze this helm has damage reduction, life leach, mana leach, very nice helm if you cant get hold of arreats. 5. 5. 5.

I don't get what your rating means...

1... first choice ? or 1 out of ... 10 ?

If it's the first... I'm missing a 6 Helm. And I'd have appreciated them being in order rather than strewn throughout each other in seemingly random order.

If it's the rating... I don't get your rating ;)

Herald of Doom
24-05-2004, 16:40
If you can get a godly rare or crafted axe then they are better, after that I would go for warshrike yea.

Hadriel yea I believe that is true but I dont know any figures on it

Hmm, define godly. I gave him an exceptional version of a winged harpoon (forgot name) with 1xx/2xxAR (cant temember either hehe) 380%ed +1combat skills 5ml and some ele dmg (300 in total iirc). If he ups it to a wh, would that be better then the shrikes, or does it need to be 400%ed 30ias fools mod ? ;)

HoD

[iNsoMniaC]
24-05-2004, 18:59
Very nice guide, but you mentioned that carrying BOtD, would be way too expensive, but what about wearing dual wiz spike as secondary option... That would provide:
100% FCR
+150 All Res.
30/20% +Mana(Can't remember if it is 10 or 15 on wiz spike)

That should take care of the FCR problem, at least i think... could anyone post a link to barbarian FCR bp's...?

- [iNsoMniaC]

fallen angel of satan
24-05-2004, 21:33
Aerath the ratings are an order that I have put items in and the colours are for different styles, I cant put them in order because which order would I use bvb bvall or pvm. If you have a simpelar system plz say bcoz I agree it is quite complicated to follow.

Herald of doom, that is a v nice rare, the one mod it is missing in ias and this is quite key also it is not eth(with replenish quantity) so persoanlly Id go with eth warshrikes. These are faster and with the eth mod will have about the same damage but with 50% deadly stike will beat the rare. When I said godly rare Idid mean almost perfect stats.

iNsoMniac thanx 4 pointing that out :) I meant to add but must have forgotten :(

As for barb fcr breakpoints the 2nd link in the guide takes you to a site with them.