gmoura's 1.10 WhirlWind Guide..

[gmoura]

i've recently noticed that a large number of people have been asking for a Whirl Wind Guide, so i went ahead a quickly made one up! it can be found here "WhirlWind Guide" (http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mouran/wwguide.html). If you find any inaccurate information of mistakes please send me an email (gmoura@optushome.com.au) and i'll fix it up! also, mail me if you think i should add anything to it!
i will be updating it regularly.

Tell me what you think guys!

[Katharsis]

hmm... good work man

[gmoura]

hmm... good work man
Thanx dude..

this is only the first version though, im want to add a PvP section, but i far from an expert at PvP, i need someone to email me what i should add! :drool:

[memememe173]

nice to have a WW guide (finally)

Suggestions

1. Titans can still be viable IMO, add in them as a variant
2. +3 War Cry weapon switch?
3. Include [all] the break points for 1h and 2h weapons
4. Charm section
5. touch on IK barb WWs
6. really expand your weapon section...didn't say anything about Maces/Staves being the thing that really stands out
7. Throw/WW hybrid

good job though

[gmoura]

Thanx for the input man, i'll definatly add a few of those!!!!!

i'll probably re-do alot of it when i have some spare time! but any input is great!

stay tuned :thumbsup:

[Halciet]

There, we finally have one of those out of the way. You need to flesh it out some more in the equipment and skill sections, to make concessions for low-level characters and such, and there are a few spelling/grammar errors (a lot, not allot ;)), but all and all, we're golden. Now we just need to finish off the FAQ and I can retire, lol

-Hal

[gmoura]

LOL @ allot, i just ran it through a quick spell check and i guess i shouldn't have hit "change". Thats the first thing i'll fix!!

as for the other changes, its a definate! i just wanted to get something up, so i rushed it alittle, but it will get revised ALLOT !! :uhhuh:

[cracked sash]

good start.

My experience with dual wielding WW'erz has been very rewarding and I will vouch for it as a VERY viable build– with the right gear.

Going high vitality and low str(using enigma for str) I opted for doom instead of a Um'd SS shield (botd in the other hand). I get twice as many hits while WW'ing my 2 bzerker axs', the holy freeze chills even cold immunes, and the plus 2 is great. The high vit build (4k with max bo) makes me almost like getting hit, lol. I actually miss blocking a little now that I don't need it. So I am building a pally next. ;)

Actually the build is totally unfair to any monster without IM.

I have never taken this build PVP'ing, but I bet it could hold its own.

-Sash

[Jayaz_Forteck]

I know this is nitpicky, but I could swear Scorpion from Mortal Kombat says "GET OVER HERE!"

Erm... anyway, good guide :D

[ScatteredFire]

Yes, that is his line.

[gmoura]

ok guys, your advice has been very helpful!

Change Allot to "a lot"..............done
correct Mortal combat quote......done
Add "titan" and "duel weilder" to build variations........doing
improving on the equipment section........................doing

should i add abit on the Notorious CB vs BA discussion?
anyything else guys?? i wanna get this guide filled with everything you guys think it should have!!

[TheKbob]

No love for Whirlwind Polearms / Lancers?

Eth BotD Great Poleaxe // Ghost Spear

Eth BotD warpike is GREAT DMG, but slow slow slow... I'm thinking ghost spear, since reaching the last BP, would deal more dmg over time.

Make sure to fan out stuff to not just UBER 1337 MUST HAVE H4XX0R Gear and such. Include some poor man's stuff.

~Kbob

[gmoura]

Good point! i forgot about polearms,

ok, i'll add a Shield/noShield section, and i'll make sure i add heaps more to the items section! including Polearms!!

thanx knob, great help!!!!! :yep:

[Jayaz_Forteck]

should i add abit on the Notorious CB vs BA discussion?

Yeah, that would be good too, also, by improving the equipment section, will you be adding socketing advice? And don't forget memememe173's suggestion to add 1h/2h ww bps, as well as fhr bps, and target r/w and dex (for, say, lvl 80 with ss/whitstan's). Pack that baby full of stuff!

I'll see if I can come up with more while I'm at school :evil:

EDIT: Hope you can get some advice for pvp, as my ww barb's been having trouble there in 1.10, I look forward to a pvp section :drool:

EDIT #2: You should add an index at the top, so people know what order the guide's in.

EDIT #3: You mention Hal's Conc guide, you should link to other guides you mention.

EDIT #4: Whew, at least I'm thinking all this stuff at once, heh :uhhuh: . Maybe add IK gloves/boots combo as a gear choice as well.

EDIT #5: Ok, I think this'l be the last edit. It would probably be helpfull to give more specific advice on the use of warcries, howl and taunt in particular. I think you can rip the information off of MongoJerry's warcry barb adventures if you can find it.

Good luck on your guide, I think I'll turn in now :yawn: . Maybe I'll dream up some ideas...

[gmoura]

the response from you guys has been awsome!
dont worry, i'll be adding ALL of this stuff in!!!!

i'll probably break the equipment section in to different barb category's like
sword, mace, axe, polearm etc!!

and i'll add a break point and socketing section soon too!!!!

remember, if you have any specific information for me, email it to me and i'll add it in for sure!!!!!

edit: good idea about the index! will do!! im on the job =)

[memememe173]

I'm sure you know this, but I'm going to link it any way, just to give you a hand

ITEMS! just to double check on getting break points and such (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/)

not sure if this was mentioned... 1 weapon vs. 2 weapons vs. 2hand weapon
advantages/disadvatages of both, suggestions for each type (can be fairly small)

[gmoura]

got arreats summit item section bookmarked hehe =)

but thats a great idea! im making changes as we speak so i'll add that in too! good job!

[gmoura]

ok guys, i've done more work on the guide and re-did the item section!
tell me if you want any other items added, i think it looks better!
also some navigation buttons were added making it easier to go through!

Question: how do i edit my original post in this thread? i wanted to add the word "Revised" ???? should i re-post this thread again??

[memememe173]

ok guys, i've done more work on the guide and re-did the item section!
tell me if you want any other items added, i think it looks better!
also some navigation buttons were added making it easier to go through!

Question: how do i edit my original post in this thread? i wanted to add the word "Revised" ???? should i re-post this thread again??
1 hour timer for editing posts

I'd say re post

[gmoura]

k, i'll do it now then! thanx man! did you like the changes i made to the item section?

[memememe173]

k, i'll do it now then! thanx man! did you like the changes i made to the item section?
very nice :wow:

BotD Ghost Spear and BotD Champion Axe could be included

Sandstorm Trek isn't in bold (nit pick)

Highlord's Ammy

I'd really suggest getting the +3 cry switch included fast...

You did a great job...I have my reviesed Singer guide done, if I sent it to you, could you do the same sort of thing for me? (don't be afriad to say no :D )

[gmoura]

very nice :wow:

BotD Ghost Spear and BotD Champion Axe could be included

Sandstorm Trek isn't in bold (nit pick)

Highlord's Ammy

I'd really suggest getting the +3 cry switch included fast...

You did a great job...I have my reviesed Singer guide done, if I sent it to you, could you do the same sort of thing for me? (don't be afriad to say no :D )
Ill fix them up now! thanx!

what exactly did you want me to do??? host you guide?

[memememe173]

Ill fix them up now! thanx!

what exactly did you want me to do??? host you guide?
Host mostly...maybe those fancy buttons, and a couple images

[gmoura]

Host mostly...maybe those fancy buttons, and a couple images

hehe, sure, i can host it if you want! the fancy buttons are not hard, just use a css style! have a look at the code used for mine and you'll get it, as for images, just save the images you want and insert them into your guide using frontpage or dreamweaver or something! i like coding mine cause thats how i learnt html, but those programs make it easy for anyone!

email me your guide and i'll host it for you if you want! and i'll give you the address for it!!

ps. start posting in my new guide thread so that this one can slowly disappear! lol

[gmoura]

Hehe, Hal i should have listened to you and not re-posted!
i guess this is the thread now! which is good in a way because
all the initial input is in this one!!

anyway, i finished a small PvP section now, read it and tell me what you guys think!

will be adding more soon!

[Jayaz_Forteck]

Lol, they stickied it.

Dunno if you saw all my edits from the 20th, I know you responded to one, but I posted 5, take a look up a bit and see if anything in the post is helpfull

[gmoura]

Lol, they stickied it.

Dunno if you saw all my edits from the 20th, I know you responded to one, but I posted 5, take a look up a bit and see if anything in the post is helpfull

alright, now we're talking!!!
great suggestions Jayaz!
i've updated the equipment section already, (added to it and made it look pretty)
i fixed the Mortal Combat quote :lol:

check back soon, i'll be adding Break point info, socketing section, and adding to the equipment section also! ive already added a PvP tips section, take a look and tell me if i should add more too it! its just a small section!

thanx again!
looking forward to more suggestions! =)

[Icebird]

Overall pretty good. A few suggestions:

1) Clarify the WW breakpoints. All swords and 1-handed weapons have breakpoints at -10 and -35. All other two-handed weapons have breakpoints at -10, -30 and -60 (going from memory here).

2) You should probably include a mention of range in weapon selection. I believe longer-range weaopons = more hits per whirl.

3) IK Maul has inhrerent 40% IAS plus two open sockets. Since ogre mauls have a base speed of 10, you need 70% IAS overall to hit the last breakpoint. You can achieve that with 2 Shael or 2 Fervor jewels.

4) You should add an upgraded Ethereal Hone Sundan to the spear section (ladder or SP only option). The max damage can be around 700 which is fairly impressive for a weapon without a Zod in it.

5) It would be worth developing a larger section on magic finding, since WW babas are still perfectly viable treasure hunters. Skillwise you'd replace the points in Shout with points in Find Item, and its worth mentioning typical MF gear (Enigma, Skullder's, "Wealth", Stealskull etc etc).

6) "Laying of Hands" is worth mentioning in the gloves section for the big boost to fire resistance and damage to demons. Plus they're pretty easy to find...

Chris

[gmoura]

dude, i'm gonna put everything you just said in the guide!!!!
thats the kind of input i need! Thanx!!!!!! :thumbsup:

stay tuned!!

[DhR_PvP]

Ive been in the process of writing one for along time(im lazy lol), the only big differance is that mine was specificly for dueling and really didnt put out any PvM imput. Anyway I could help/write the PvP section if you want. If so just send me a pm and I should have it for you within a week or so.

[chinaman1472]

Don't forget about Crafted Items... though not exactly the best way to obtain items, it can be very nice stuff.

Blood Amulets - High leech, Faster Run/Walk, Stats, Skills, Resistance
Blood Rings - High leech, High stats
Blood Gloves - Crushing Blow, Life, IAS, Stats

[strijdje]

looks gOOd :)

[gmoura]

thanx for all the advice/suggestions guys!!

i will be goin through all the reply's and adding everything to the guide very soon!! have been busy last couple of days, and i have a few more assignments to do for Uni. But check back in about a week and the guide will be chock-s-block with new goodies!!!

[spencert]

Gmoura, went thru your guide quickly. Nice job... about time someone came up with a WW guide. Notice no mentions on charms... you may want to include that. But again.. I went thru rather fast so if I missed it.. my apologies.

[gmoura]

ye, lots of people were asking for one, so i thought id write a quick one up! glad you liked it! :uhhuh:

you're 100% right about the charms! im gonna have to add a lot more sections to it! =) charms will be one of those for sure! =)

[gko240813]

lol...I swear the guide was written by dick vitale....useful btw. thanks for havin it up

[gmoura]

lol...I swear the guide was written by dick vitale

Who the hell is "dick vitale" ??? :lol:

[memememe173]

Who the hell is "dick vitale" ??? :lol:
I think he's an NCAA basketball announcer

[squigipapa]

Hi,
Great Guide! Only one thing I wanted to comment on. In the "Maces" section, where you talk about the IK Maul. You say that even with 2 shael's you won't be able to reach the final (-60) ww breakpoint, however, the IK Maul has an inherent 40% ias, 2 shaels would actually even be overkill, bringing it to -70 because the base speed of an ogre maul is 10. it already hits -30 with the built in IAS, and an extra +30 IAS would bring it to the -60 breakpoint. So, whether you socket the IK maul with 2 15%IAS jewels, 2 shael's or any combo of one of each, you will reach the -60 ww breakpoint with the IK Maul.

EDIT: ya, ok, note to self, read all the posts before posting, someone already mencioned this.. :)

[mstrnicegui]

Hah hah! Dick Vitale... Yeah baby!!! with emphasis on the !!!. Dick Vitale was/is a college basketball coach/announcer that is very energetic to say the least. He was well known for how ridiculously excited he'd seem. I believe the Dick Vitale reference was in regards to your liberal use to the exclamation point, which I see has been toned down from the first revision.

As for suggestions, in the equipment section for sheilds, I'd love to see a reference to gerke's sanctuary as it is quite a decent alternative to ss for its insanely high chance to block and resists and dmg/magic dmg (!) reduction.

For merc equipment, I can't say enough about andy's visage for its +skills str and leech. Also, unless you mention socketing one of those items with a cham, you should mention gladiator's bane and/or upgraded duriel's shell for the cannot be frozen.

Otherwise, you're doing a good job so far and I don't have any more suggestions atm.

[Ed_MarloZon]

Good work man... good guide.
The Titan build is still very Viable in PvM and PvP since 1.1 was released that is the only type of build I have made until the character I started 2 days ago for the the Barb Temple which is going to be a Conc. Barb using sword/sheild. My other 2 Barbs right now are both Titan WW barbs one is a Titan WW IK barb the other is a Titan WW Spear Barb which I made for using the "RoboPike", which I almost have everything for but in the mean time I have been using a Eth War Pike BoTD, weilding that I Do 14k WW damage and with Robopike I will do more than that and be much faster.

Anyhow I just wanted to give me own 2 cents.

Peace out,
Ed_Marlo2
USeast

[Jayaz_Forteck]

Robopike? :scratch: Sounds expensive

The guide's looking great, glad you decided to make one :drool:

[memememe173]

Robopike? :scratch: Sounds expensive

The guide's looking great, glad you decided to make one :drool:
Zod + Sheal + 4x ED//IAS *cough 40/15 cough* eth War Pike

[creatine_rage_2002]

I got one question. Maybe I missed it, but i dont think anyone ever brought up the possibility of using a Cranium Basher. I have a Shaeled one in storage and i was thinking of breaking it out. IIRC it has a chance to cast Amp, 75% Crushing Blow (which i believe coupled with Gore Riders gives 90% CB), +25 to resists, and some other mods. Is this a viable weapon?? I went ahead and maxed mace mastery because i use IK Maul (dual shael) with WW and Baranars Star / Stormshield with Berserk for weapon switch to kill PIs.

[memememe173]

I got one question. Maybe I missed it, but i dont think anyone ever brought up the possibility of using a Cranium Basher. I have a Shaeled one in storage and i was thinking of breaking it out. IIRC it has a chance to cast Amp, 75% Crushing Blow (which i believe coupled with Gore Riders gives 90% CB), +25 to resists, and some other mods. Is this a viable weapon?? I went ahead and maxed mace mastery because i use IK Maul (dual shael) with WW and Baranars Star / Stormshield with Berserk for weapon switch to kill PIs.
it's very slow...won't hit first breakpoint IIRC

[betaone]

add a merc choice section :D
i for one would eyther go 1. cold rouge merc or 2. act3 cold merc b/c anything that cant run away from your ww faster then you can ww it is a dead thing

[Shanksie1337]

This probably sounds like a repeat question - but:
I have just found a Death Cleaver and i plan on killing my IK WW barb and trying an axe whirler, would you advocate 1H + SS or no sheild and something? as a second weapon?

Also i just want to clarify - as the IAS tables don't seem to be included yet - but does the DC hit the last WW or will i need to Shael/IAS it?

Otherwise nice guide :)

(and yes i did post on both threads as i am not sure which you monitor for replies)

[memememe173]

This probably sounds like a repeat question - but:
I have just found a Death Cleaver and i plan on killing my IK WW barb and trying an axe whirler, would you advocate 1H + SS or no sheild and something? as a second weapon?

Also i just want to clarify - as the IAS tables don't seem to be included yet - but does the DC hit the last WW or will i need to Shael/IAS it?

Otherwise nice guide :)

(and yes i did post on both threads as i am not sure which you monitor for replies)
Yes DC will hit last breakpoint on it's own and I'd reccomend A/S for it

[Shanksie1337]

ty memememe173

[EmS.R]

What are your thoughts about an IK WW build?

[norvi11erogers]

as icebird said, add eth upped hone sundan to the spear section. 45 cb+700 max dmg +last bp with shaels is pretty decent for a weapon i figure, and it's cheaper than botd.

also, you might want to mention that javelin class items get a bonus from spear mastry when used as melee weapons. while none of the elite unique javs reach the fastest bp, some meet the next best, and at least demon's arch has good damage, especially since the regen mod allows it to be ethereal. if dii.net's item section is to be believed, javelins all have 3 range, which is as good as any sword. Also important to note, it is possible to have an insanely good rare melee javelin. winged harpoons, hyperion javes, and stygian pilums can all meet the fastest 1 hand bp, and stygian pilum's average damage is just 6 less than a col blade. thus, a rare stygian pilum with 40% ias and great mods could be amazing for whirlwind.

ok so that second paragraph was lengthy, but its major point was that spear mastry is not necessarily 2 handed. double wielding javs might be good, and who knows, if you used a jav or even two, you could maybe do some sort of thrower/whirler hybrid. not sure how well it would work, just throwing that out there.

also, there is some good information about how whirlwind bps work stickied at theamaznobasin.com's barb forum. or maybe it's lurkerlounge. in any case, you might want to look that information over. even if you didn't go as in depth as they discuss, it might be helpful for your guide to have a description of how the bps, double weilding, etc works for whirlers. no better place for that kind of information than a whirlerbarb guide :)

above all, thanks for the guide, you inspired me to make a whirler again !!

[skywyze]

I was just wondering how breakpoints work, and since there's little information on them in the guide, I thought I might just ask.

First of all, someone earlier gave two breakpoint values for single-handed weapons and three breakpoints for two-handed ones. Does that mean that two-handed weapons have potential for more attacks per ww?

Secondly, it says on battle.net that two-handed weapons do less damage if dual-wielded. Does this also apply to when you're using a shield in the other hand? Is the drop in damage considerable?

It also says on battle.net that weapon speeds vary with class, with paladins and assassins getting the fastest speeds. Did I understand that correctly? The barbarian is actually a slower melee fighter than the paladin?

Correct me if I mis-understood something here, but I could get either two weapons and do massive damage at the cost of the resistances I could get from a shield, but that would indicate a rather large portion of my ability points spent on dex, to keep the block % high enough to be useful. But wouldn't that also mean that since I have such a good block %, I wouldn't need to put every last point into vitality? So the dex would weigh up for the lack of vit, and I'd get the resistances thrown on as an added bonus? If so, then it seems that two-weapon ww'ers got nerfed.

Again, I'm new to this and haven't played a barb much before, but I'm starting to like them. So please be patient.

[mstrnicegui]

1. ww breakpoints 2 handers: -35 -60
1 handers & all swords (even 2 handers): -10 -35

2. What determines # of hits per whirl:
-hitting the last breakpoint (the same # of hits for both 1 hand and 2 hand)
-range of weapons, range 5 weapons have better chance of hitting more targets, so you'll hit more often with range 5 weapons
-dual wielding gives you chance to hits 2x as often, assuming there are 2 targets within range.

3. Only swords can be wielded as 2 handers or 1 handers, and only by barbarians, everyone else can only hold em 2 handed. When wielded as 2 hander, they do 2 hand dmg, when wielded with 2nd weapon/sheild, they do 1 hand dmg. The dmg of a sword as 2 hander is usually lower than other weapon classes that are dedicated 2 handers

4. A barb usually wields higher dmg weapons than paladins, so they are heavier and require more time to swing them. A paladin's skills are based more around speed and a barb's more around doing higher dmg.

That's all I have time to post right now. I'll see if I can come back and post more.

[Jayaz_Forteck]

Uhr, just spotted an error, on your guide, it says about the IK maul: "note: even with 2 shael runes in it, the speed will only get to -30, which wont be as fast as we desired. ", this isn't true, while the maul has a bast sped of 10, it also has an inherant 40% ias, which results in a speed of -30 right there, add 2 shaels and you have -70.

http://www.diabloii.net/items/item_sets/x_immortal.shtml

[harry56]

I just thought that I might mention some low level gear that is useful while leveling.

Dual Shadowfang swords (lvl12) they have cold damage and 9 % dual life/mana leech.

Cathan ring and Manhald ring extra leech.

Dual Bloodletter swords (lvl 30) these are great even up to lvl 50, they can add as much as +8 to ww or sword mastery. Although I haven't seen many +4 to both swords.

Berzerker armor ealrly on for +1 skills. Iceblink later for freeze target.

[norvi11erogers]

also good for lvling is making +max dmg armor. a 60 max armor can have a lvl req as low as 18.

with wwind bp stuff info, that's good mistrnicegui, but on lurkerlounge there's a spot that describes how wwind works, how every 4 frames it will check if you can attack, etc. eventually in this post, you get to something that resembles english, and the information is invaluable.

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=8&t=834

what it comes down to is that depending on the speed, you get a delay, the least being 4 frames, and every 4 frames wwind sees if that delay has passed. 4 6 8 10 etc are the delays, and the quickest ones correspond to the well known breakpoints.


also good there is the information on dual weilding. just check it out.

[allergic2dying]

I heard from people that these 2 dont work with ww unless they are on a perticular wep. For example, deadly strike from gore riders or highlords ammy doesnt work with ww. The only deadly strike that will work is what you get from the wep and mastery.
Can someone do some research or something on this --- And post a reply if this is true.

-Question- How much deadly strike or CB can u get..What is the maximum and does it stack with other items and mastery...
Also what is the difference btw deadly strike and CB :P.. i dont really understand

Another question i have is ,,Is 50% damage reduce the maximum you can get... I thought 75% was or is this 1.09 that im talking about?

Thanx

[NorthViking]

Cheers gmouran, I will look at this guide.

Thinking about starting a barb :)

Around how much STR and DEX do you guys have on your WW barbs ??

[BattleQueen]

In 1.09, % chance to cast amp dmg doesn't work when you are WW-ing. Can someone verify if this is still the case in 1.10? I suppose this would apply to % to cast Static as in Crescent Moon weapons.

Nice-lookin' guide. :thumbsup: But perhaps a comparison of range 3 weapons (swords, axes) and range 4-5 weapons (polearms/spears) would add a more complete picture. From experience, WW-ing barbs find it easier to hit monsters using weapons with longer range without having to come too close. Without shields, dual wielding barbs need all the help they can get to avoid hits.

Btw, it takes some skill/experience to WW packs effectively. Most new players just run their WW barbs right thru them, which isn't the best way to utilise WW. This is probably covered in the older guides. Just so u don't have to re-invent the wheel, a link to the relevant section(s) from the older guides could serve just as well.

[mstrnicegui]

woop, just noticed you listed a colossus voulge as being a candidate for botd in your polearm section, but it only gets a max of 4 sockets. You must've been thinking about the giant thresher, which is the only other elite polearm to get 6 sockets.

[prickle]

nice guide but u dont have to max whirlwind it gives u a measly 200-300 dmg with an extra 19 points all u need is 1 point into it and max iron skin.

[prickle]

Cheers gmouran, I will look at this guide.

Thinking about starting a barb :)

Around how much STR and DEX do you guys have on your WW barbs ??

my barb is ww/conc but i have 63 str(all i need with power ups gives me 150 something) and around 120 dex the rest i put in dex.

[lildonut]

nice guide but u dont have to max whirlwind it gives u a measly 200-300 dmg with an extra 19 points all u need is 1 point into it and max iron skin.

Ww gives ar too. :drool:

[FrozenSolid]

Great guide but you didnt mention much about the IK set. Is a shield reallyy that necsesary our would ik set work as well?

[Herald of Doom]

Great guide but you didnt mention much about the IK set. Is a shield reallyy that necsesary our would ik set work as well?
Yes. Not as good as the unique equipment, but a ww IK barb can solo hell with ease.

HoD

[Dogbert]

A couple things.

1) About Duress: "a massive 40% faster hit recovery" This isn't needed as whirlwind is uniterruptible.

2) You forgot to mention druids in pvp strategy.

3) Ravenfrost just slows down your killingspeed as you hit alot more when chilled and this means more damage.

[mstrnicegui]

For as much as ppl mention ww not being interruptible, which in pvm I've never had a problem, it's been interrupted a lot for me in pvp. I'd assume it's buggy problems, but still...

1. I was ww vs another ww barb, both of us IK. We were in an open area in blood moor where there were no enemies and nothing to block us (bushes, etc.). Many times we ww straight at each other and many times one of us would just stop dead in our tracks. We wouldn't go into hit recovery, we'd just stop. It was seemingly totally random. It wasn't based off of who started to whirl first.

2. I was ww against a friend with a frozen arrow zon with knockback. Many many times I would start my ww and I would be moving towards her and I would get knocked back. I would see the ww animation playing as I was in hit recovery flying backwards an insane amount as zons with knockback cause.

These are just two examples that I have been able to replicate, though I have no explanation as to why.

[Hells]

nice to have a WW guide (finally)

Suggestions

1. Titans can still be viable IMO, add in them as a variant
2. +3 War Cry weapon switch?
3. Include [all] the break points for 1h and 2h weapons
4. Charm section
5. touch on IK barb WWs
6. really expand your weapon section...didn't say anything about Maces/Staves being the thing that really stands out
7. Throw/WW hybrid

good job though

Does the 3+ war cry trick still work? woot! :)

[JadePhoenix]

Is it just me or is the link to the guide no longer working?

[AdunaCCDanimoth]

It does indeed work. GJ on the guide, gmoura.

What about throwing in a Magic Find section as well?

[saint_of_killers]

gj on a good guide...but here's something small i'd add:
Doom Pole (and maybe Doom 2-hand Axe).

i find doom to be exceptionally good (that a double positive?) on my polebarb. not a FAST killer (though i haven't compared it to BotD, it does seem faster than/as fast as any of the new uniques however), but the fact the holy freeze basically prevents me from getting hit opens up item choice a lot.

[Dogbert]

Does the 3+ war cry trick still work? woot! :)

Yes.
And Titan's revenge is an Amazon only weapon.

[mstrnicegui]

Yes.
And Titan's revenge is an Amazon only weapon.

If you're referring to the comment made eariler by someone saying that a titan's variant is still viable, they aren't talking about titan's revenge.

A titan is a way to distribute stat points. Since 1.10 the favorite stat point placement of barbs has been a vitabarb, enough str/dex for equip/max block. Before 1.10 titans were king. A titan was a barb that put all points into str. They could do that in 1.09 because life and blocking weren't nearly as important as they are now, dmg was king.

[=BDU=Fenris]

I don't know if it's the best idea, but I'm a mace WW barb and I use a BotD Eth Thunder Maul, which, if you will notice, is the highest damage weapon in the game. (Eth Thunder maul has base damage of 45.5-270). It's not that fast, but it has great dmg, decent range, and decent speed none-the-less. In gmoura's guide, it's the only weapon class without a BotD representative. Also, Windhammer is a very fast weapon, and Schaeffer's hammer, especially and ethereal one, is a great one handed damage machine. The crescent moon amulet is a great thing to have as well, with dual leech and dmg-> mana. Anywho, other than that, it's a great guide. Thanks.

[memememe173]

I don't know if it's the best idea, but I'm a mace WW barb and I use a BotD Eth Thunder Maul, which, if you will notice, is the highest damage weapon in the game. (Eth Thunder maul has base damage of 45.5-270). It's not that fast, but it has great dmg, decent range, and decent speed none-the-less. In gmoura's guide, it's the only weapon class without a BotD representative. Also, Windhammer is a very fast weapon, and Schaeffer's hammer, especially and ethereal one, is a great one handed damage machine. The crescent moon amulet is a great thing to have as well, with dual leech and dmg-> mana. Anywho, other than that, it's a great guide. Thanks.
Eth Schaffer's doesn't spawn, and is slow

BoTD thunder maul wouldn't be that bad however

[skilledlord]

soo much exclamation marks!!! good job on this i've always thought ww barbs were the strongest barb of all:)

[Radon]

if you have two swords equipped, does it count both of them for hits during WW?

[kid&tig]

whoa, I was just gonna start saying that I'm not a newb but reading this has blown me away. I liked the guide alot, it was simple (things people like me like alot) and I belive I got it. but the responses is what blew me away I've never made a barb b4 so ths is all very new as I speak I've got my first eva barb who has maxed WW and because he uses a Polearm Polearm mastery (a no brainer but had to mention) I chose this 'cause I fancy polearms (thou I'm not to sure on how well they stack up in this game) and BO but then I had no Idea where to start putting the skill points.

the break points I'm learning about and I think if I read this enough I might just get a bit more of it. Thou I know this will result in me making alot more Barbs...
I just wanna ask two things:

Are break points THAT IMPORTANT? Do we really need so many? Or is this just a smart thing to do

Everyone mentions to put "just enough points on Str." Do we all have our items from the begining and does this/is what Seperates newbs from those other people. I guess I am a newb so I get my stuff as I go along so I can't plan ahead

Sorry for the big post as you can or can't see this is my first post so I had alot to get off my chest.
thanks for acutally reading my post, now if you'll excuse me my head id imploding so Tig will take over
Kid out,

[mstrnicegui]

kid&tig:

regarding breakpoints, yes it is very important to hit the last breakpoint if you plan on making it through hell difficulty. It will basically give you 1-2 extra chances to hit for every ww you do. This means huge amounts for your dmg output.

As for str, the twinked barbs will have their gear already planned out before they start. This isn't necessary if you plan on playing untwinked or for pvm where you don't know what your whole outfit is going to be. For pvp, it's mostly necessary if you go up against other highly twinked players.

[eOe_Azrael]

Okay, I'll grant that this guide is excellent, if not rushed. But let's compare it to Hal's conc build:

1, Good focus on items, but not as good. Sure, you list more items, but you don't say what's good for high, low and medium level chars.

2, Give me some numbers. I'm one of those many retards who can't get everything done right, so I'd like to see some exact numbers of skill and stat points appearing. Look at Halciet's build, for instance. He says which skills need 20 points and so on.

3, Your advice is 'use a shield'. Huh? But what do I do if I'm using the IK set, like you suggested earlier? Should I change anything? Should I focus more or less on Dexterity? Sure, I'm a killing machine, but am I such a good one that I won't need as much defense as normal? Or do I swap items to BotD axe & Stormshield for a while and hack through them? And if so, what works better? Whirlwind with two items or whirlwind with one?

Think about these points. Your guide's easy enough to follow, but it's not as easy/stable as Haciet's.

Btw, if it makes you feel any better, I am using your guide, and I'm not just a critic. Nice to finally see a WW guide out there. Gj! ;)

[SuperBear]

I started to play D2 when it came out and barb has been my favorite. Does anyone remember the Martel WW Barb back in those days? Then came the lance WW barb with the fix of lance drop. Then the cruel sword WW barb in the expansion. The WW barb has always been one of the most powerful characters and definitely the safest character.

With the 1.10 patch making melee characters so hard to play and the lack of synergy for WW plus some change to make WW less powerful, I thought the death of WW barb has been declared if not also for the barb character altogether.

Yesterday I tried the WW barb with the top of line equipment suggested in the guide, I just realized that the WW barb with the best gear is actually the strongest character of all. No other character comes nearly close.

I was playing single player using the Hero editor to try out all the different builds. Sorceress being as nimble as claimed, the skelemancer being the super power house when commanding 12 might-enchanted skeletons, ... After trying lots of different builds and I was almost resigned to conclude that the skelemancer being the most powerful but less nimble (carrying the most weight literally), I read this guide.

Apparently, this build is still the same as the one we're so familiar with. What really surprised me is how powerful the barb becomes with the top of line gears. At level 73, he was roaming at ease in the durrance of hate and the worldstone keep hell. It's like going back to the old days, just WW across everything in your way. Nothing stands. Monsters were quick to drop, and the red life bulb seemed to rarely drop much. The only time to stop whirling like a wind is to use berserk when being IronMaidened. The killing speed way exceeds other builds and all the monsters' nasty attacks in the worldstone seem so ineffective to the barb.

It's not that I didn't experience the power of a WW barb before. It's just that I could and did experience that in the past on the realms with just decent gears, and I don't expect that I can ever get my hands on the breath of dying, enigma gears plus some other rarest unique. It's sad that I will never play a WW barb on the realms again...

[Dogbert]

3, Your advice is 'use a shield'. Huh? But what do I do if I'm using the IK set, like you suggested earlier? Should I change anything? Should I focus more or less on Dexterity? Sure, I'm a killing machine, but am I such a good one that I won't need as much defense as normal? Or do I swap items to BotD axe & Stormshield for a while and hack through them? And if so, what works better? Whirlwind with two items or whirlwind with one?


If you use Ik set you don't need any dexterity at all. Why? Because none of the items require any, simple as that.

I have 232 str for Ik maul and put rest into vit.
I still have over 7000 attackrating and no problems hitting things.
I can further increase it using attack rating charms but it's not needed.

As for defence, with 1 point in Shout i get over 10k which is plenty.
If you feel you need more put 20 points in Shout. I decided to max Warcry instead. The stun often saves my mercenary.

I don't use shields on my barbarians because damage is much too low when using one. Leave them to the Paladins.
Should i play Hardcore i would most certainly use one however.

[lorax]

nice guide but is this legal to euro-pvp

i need to make a barb for euro-pvp and i thought this guide was very great so if you could make it somekind of euro-pvp legal or so you would make my day. :thanks: hehe

[TheZealot]

is death cleaver good for ww? or conc?

[johny]

1. ww breakpoints 2 handers: -35 -60
1 handers & all swords (even 2 handers): -10 -35
...


Hi, niceguy:

Just got a bit confused.

1. Why there are two breakpoints? For example, for 2 handlers, -35 and -60, which is the breakpoint for the last fps? If -60 is the last IAS breakpoint, then what this -35 for?

2. Using the calculator (http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english)

Character Barbarian
Weapon Colossus Blade / Kolossklinge,
two-handed
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 8 3.1
13 % 6 4.1
39 % 4 6.2

Character Barbarian
Weapon Berserker Axe / Berserker-Axt
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 8 3.1
8 % 6 4.1
34 % 4 6.2

Character Barbarian
Weapon Ogre Maul / Ogerhammer
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 12 2
6 % 10 2.5
16 % 8 3.1
37 % 6 4.1
69 % 4 6.2

The numbers here is a bit different from what you said. Which one is correct? (I suppose yours is correct. )

3. Just as some guys pointed out in previous posts, the guide is wrong about IK maul in that it said even dual shaeled, it can't arrive at the breakpoint for the last fps. As they pointed out, I think the breakpoint can be arrived at if the maul is dual shaeled or dual socketed with 40ed/15ias.
Is it correct?

[mstrnicegui]

Hi, niceguy:

Just got a bit confused.

1. Why there are two breakpoints? For example, for 2 handlers, -35 and -60, which is the breakpoint for the last fps? If -60 is the last IAS breakpoint, then what this -35 for?
2 handers have 3 bps actually (-10 is the first), I just got lazy. Like conc, when you hit a breakpoint you hit at a quicker fps.

2-hand fps is:
-10 = 8fps
-30 = 6fps
-60 = 4fps

1-hand single-wield is:
-10 = 6fps
-35 = 4fps

dual wield is a bit more complicated, but if both weapons hit at the last bp, they'll both swing at 4fps.


Character Barbarian
Weapon Colossus Blade / Kolossklinge,
two-handed
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 8 3.1
13 % 6 4.1
39 % 4 6.2

Character Barbarian
Weapon Berserker Axe / Berserker-Axt
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 8 3.1
8 % 6 4.1
34 % 4 6.2

Character Barbarian
Weapon Ogre Maul / Ogerhammer
Skill Whirlwind
WIAS Frames per attack Attacks per second
0 % 12 2
6 % 10 2.5
16 % 8 3.1
37 % 6 4.1
69 % 4 6.2
The answer to which is right, what I said or what the ias bps say, they both are right. the bps I listed above are static and never change, but the weapon base speeds all change. The ias calculator tells you how much ias you need to go from base speed to breakpoint. The breakpoints I listed are not exactly correct, but they are rounded up to the nearest number divisible by 5, since you can only get ias by 5s.

colossus blade base speed = 5
5 + (-13) = -8 rounds to -10
5 + (-39) = -34 rounds to -35

berserker axe base speed = 0
0 + (-8) = -8 rounds to -10
0 + (-34) = -34 rounds to -35

ogre maul base speed = 10
10 + (-16) = -6 rounds to -10
10 + (-37) = -27 rounds to -30
10 + (-69) = -59 rounds to -60


3. Just as some guys pointed out in previous posts, the guide is wrong about IK maul in that it said even dual shaeled, it can't arrive at the breakpoint for the last fps. As they pointed out, I think the breakpoint can be arrived at if the maul is dual shaeled or dual socketed with 40ed/15ias.
Is it correct?
The ik maul needs 30% ias to hit the last bp. This can be done with any combination of 2 ias jewels or shaels.

ogre maul base speed = 10 w/ 40% ias as weapon bonus
10 + (-40) = -30
-60 - 30 = 30 more ias needed

[johny]

A minor fix:

-60 - 30 = 30 more ias needed
It should be -60 - (-30) = -30 more ias needed.

Your explanation is very clear.

You are really an expert, thank you, niceguy.

[Vigilante8]

I love your guide but im wondering are LanceBarbs still viable?You mentioned some spears but without those is it still worth it?
I remember the good ol days of pike barbs tearing through river runs. :yep:

[YomoKimyata]

I love your guide but im wondering are LanceBarbs still viable?You mentioned some spears but without those is it still worth it?
I remember the good ol days of pike barbs tearing through river runs. :yep:

I haven't read every post in this guide, but how about upgraded ethereal hone sundan? Good damage, 45% CB, 3xsheal gets you last BP and you look bad ***.

[BunBunMaru]

Great Poleaxe is a reliable weapon too with a base speed of 0 and the 60 ias from bots it hits the last WW breakpoint.

[Geralcik]

I'm wondering:
Is it true that the slower you run/walk, the better with WW ?
If so, then goblin toes would be better than goreriders... and no points in increased speed!
Moreover, you wouldn't want CBF, ruling out ravenfrost (duriel's shell, runemaster etc.)...

[mstrnicegui]

I'm wondering:
Is it true that the slower you run/walk, the better with WW ?
If so, then goblin toes would be better than goreriders... and no points in increased speed!
Moreover, you wouldn't want CBF, ruling out ravenfrost (duriel's shell, runemaster etc.)...

There is a balance that must be met here. When you ww more slowly, that means you are likely to be in range of your targets for longer, which means you'll be able to hit more often. However, it can be more efficient to ww 3 times with a faster ww than to ww twice with a slower one. Generally I like my ww to laster a shorter duration as that means I have more control over when and where I ww. And it leaves me less time to be vulnerable without being able to drink a potion.

[Dominium]

G'day.

I have a bit of a question here, about equipment.

I do a bit of trading and happened to come across some nice stuff that isn't good enough (or for the right class) to use on one of my existing chars, yet might do nicely on.. Well, say a WW baba.

Thus, I said, let there be a WW baba! And the baba was, and wears the Mighty full Civerb as we speak in the name of the Ladder, Vitality and Level 14. And I came here and read the guid herein, and saw it was Good. And figured I'd say/ask a thing or two about the stuff I have.

Anyway. This is the stuff I gots:
Perf Gaze (8% dual leech, 20% reduced (physical?) dam)
Leviathan (16xx def, +50 str, 20% reduced dam)
Bul Kathos' Set (2 swords, decent dam on both and with a Shael, both can meet the -35 breakpoint. Also, they add some nice bonuses when used together.)
Would probably use a String with this lot.

If I took the time to level the char, it would exist for 2 reasons: using this eq and making it look Good, and trying out a WW baba. And the latter is less important. So, is it worth the trouble? Thanks in advance.

[rikstaker]

Use arreats,its just too amazing,+to skills,str,dex,ar,LL etc...The dr from strings & levi is sufficent.

Re bk swords.. there are certain drawbacks,1 is knockback which knocks targets away from your ww path & 2 is the damage,it chokes in endgame.The collblade does upto 2k max whereas the myth sword does 1.5k.The 45% cb doesnt quite offset that,neither the dualwield hit frequency.

there are better options if you are into duawield but they are expensive, if you are restricted by economy go 2handers like polearms or the ik set.

Rik :strong:

[jordy666]

a little thing that bothered me was '"Breath of the Dying Colossus Voulge'
since a Colossus voulge doesnt hit the last WW bp and its max sockets is 4 :D

-jordy :king:

[gmoura]

Hi EVERYONE,

i am SO sorry that i have not answered aynones posts or updated the guide!
(i have been over seas for awhile and rearly had more then half an hour on a computer)

i am planning to completly Re-do my previous WW barb guide and im going to answer ALL the questions asked and include the new R/W's !! its gonna be a huge job but bare with me !!

Once again, SO sorry for my lack or responses!!!!!!

stay tuned !!!

[Blackfalcon]

ok guys, your advice has been very helpful!

Change Allot to "a lot"..............done
correct Mortal combat quote......done
Add "titan" and "duel weilder" to build variations........doing
improving on the equipment section........................doing


I'm not reading through every post to see if it has been mentioned, but Mortal Kombat is spelt with a K, not a C.

[halfstepdown]

don't know if this has been mentioned, but you use a lot, and when I say a lot I mean A LOT of freaking exclamation points! lol sorry it was driving me crazy.

[ByteMeHard]

This is a real nice set up and nicely written guide, my only comment is the complete impracticability of your entire weapon section. Do you even have any clue what a Breath of the Dying is composed of? It takes nearly a year to come up with Vex + Hel + El + Eld + Zod + Eth, and that's if you're lucky. You recommend this as almost the only weapon to use. It's just not feasable. I've seen like 3 of em the entire 2 years I've been playing. You need to edit the guide and put in some more common, easier to find weapons.

[mcm]

This is a real nice set up and nicely written guide, my only comment is the complete impracticability of your entire weapon section. Do you even have any clue what a Breath of the Dying is composed of? It takes nearly a year to come up with Vex + Hel + El + Eld + Zod + Eth, and that's if you're lucky. You recommend this as almost the only weapon to use. It's just not feasable. I've seen like 3 of em the entire 2 years I've been playing. You need to edit the guide and put in some more common, easier to find weapons.

Erm. I have dozens of EBOTDs. Who the hell are you playing with on the realms???

[Wicket]

Erm. I have dozens of EBOTDs. Who the hell are you playing with on the realms???
With legit players propably....

[Ce Olba]

With legit players propably....

You prove me that my eth botd ba 397/13 is duped and ill give it to you, plz, do that. Oh, yeah, you can't. But, neither can i prove that it's not duped, or the runes, but, if u play SP, which u seem to do, u should just shut up, since in SP anything is expensive, but these builds are not meant for SP. Dumbie. Ever heard of trading? Dumbie. And because of duping, BOTDs are cheap on-realm. And who said you will have to find the runes or play SP? If you want to play SP, then DO, but DO NOT cry about how long it takes to find a zod, it has been talked about for as long as Zod has existed. But people don't find them, they trade them. And make their own BOTDs, or trade. And lol, i doubt that all of the weapons are really as rare as u make them look like.

// And gmoura has baranar's star in his weapon's list, which is NOT hard to find. Neither are RARES, which he also suggests, if u can't afford any of the rest. And as for armors, he suggests SHAFTSTOP and DURESS, which are both common, even in SP. And well, i know you're gonna cry about how RARES suck, but well, if you can't afford better, then DO NOT cry, please, it just makes u look more pathetic.

[Wicket]

ROTFL you made me laugh hard.
You have ONE EBotD and he has DOZENS, see the difference??
Duping of ZODs is obvious, and playing in SP doesn't mean that I don't have access to better stuff. I have more than u think.
I've been playing on BN for over 1.5 year if you wanna know. Anyway this conversation is pointless, you don't have any clue about me, or what I have, so stop flaming. The only Dumbie here is you.

EOT

Wick

[MiNoTuArWtF]

Yo nice guide to the ww baba but you forgot one thing...FORTITUDE!!!! ONLY THE GREATEST WW BARB ARMOR ON THE GAME!!! oh make that two things...PHOENIX SHEILD!!! BETTER THEN FORTITUDE!!!

[MiNoTuArWtF]

ok so you left those two things out but you did say you would redo some stuff. those should be some things. otherwise nice work man. ecspecially on puttin in extra stuff if you cant afford the first things.(i can lol) :thumbsup:good work an congrats...

[MiNoTuArWtF]

LOL bytemehard you are a true noooooob... doesnt take near that long to find and dont talk smack just because you're poor. he even recomended other weapons. if you cant afford any of this stuff go to the noob section and check out ik baba guide...he did good so stfu plz :)

[Halciet]

Flaming isn't called for.

Similarly, this guide was written before fortitude was readily available.

Also, Phoenix is a horrible, horrible shield. It's virtually impossible to get to max block with it, making it worthless, since if you're not going to block with it, you might as well use Beast for the Open Wounds/Fanaticism/Extra hits with whirlwind.

-Hal

[ZoddTheImortal]

Thanks mate, you just put me to the right Direction.

And good tip to always be good to our mother. I always do :p

[BoS]

Hi there, I'm making a ww/conc barb and it's meant for pvm. Bosses, chaos run and such. I was wondering if I should use a shield + weap or dual wield? I already have a 40 ED SS, and am getting Crescent Moon since it's on this guide. Considering the inflation of Um runes on West/NL. Should I just wait for runes to make a ebotd cb? (If I can even find a eth cb), or am I on the right track to make a cheap sword like the CM. Please reply.

P.S. Currently, I'm not that rich so I have on Raven Frost / Carrion Wind / 2 WC + 20 All Resis Ammy on. What should I get if I dump the carrion wind?

Thanks, Phil.

[cogline]

Hi, I'm looking at this guide for the first time, and although I haven't finished reading it it seems to suit what I need.

However, I'd like to address that it is good policy that if you're going to refer to something constantly, it is useful to address what it is.
In this case, Breath of the Dying.

I know that all players here in the barb forum will know exactly what it is, and you go into detail about getting six socket collossal swords, so it wouldn't hurt to put one line in showing which runes are required for it.

Saves me looking up the runewords page, which I'll now have to find.
Cheers!

[MinionOfBoredom]

Vex Hel El Eld Zod Eth.

=P

[Numen]

its not working the link isnt for some reason...

[MarkOnSteroids]

link still not working. any chance of fixing this? I always love learning more about my favourite kind of character.

[PantDevil]

404'd :starry: sucks.

[onomastikon]

The link is no longer functioning...

[Uncle_Mike]

http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=574 you can find the guide here, it's pretty outdated though :sad2:

[BobCox]

Looks like the link to this is 404 down
Edit: ok see the correct link on last page when I post its down mods buts thats Kludge not a fix.
updates with links to the WW Break point guide would help and a W/W vs W/Shield section.

[ael]

Link appears to be broken. :(

[Uncle_Mike]

Link appears to be broken. :(

The one I posted a few posts above seems to work just fine. If you want a bvc try either the PvP guides sticky (link in my profile) or the guide recently posted by Jerion (first 2 pages of PvP most likely).

:wave: