WW Barbs Vs Casters / Hammerdins / Wind Druids

[spencert]

WW Barbs Vs Casters / Hammerdins / Wind Druid

Ok, I have heard some of the best WW barbs using Botd with wizardspike socketed with um for open wounds against casters. Probably a spider sash to get pass 63fcr bp. This works fine for my combo using 278th death cleaver as well. Sorcs are 1 ww kills. Nec's 1-2 ww.

Now I also heard people advocating another high dmg runeword like doom or another botd / eth death cleaver. Is this for those pesky hammerdin / wind druids that is like 50% of the pubbie pvp char out there? If I use another such waepon, I'm think I would lose the fcr and mana need to catch those casters. I want to hear opinions of those enigma WW barbs out there. Should I stick to wizardspike for all other than melee or do i need another high dmg axe?

How about against other chars? What other equipment do u guys use? What Strategies do you employ? Remember, I'm already have a Eth Death Cleaver so pls dun ask me to get a polearm or spear. Appreciate feedback.

[World Breaker]

For sorcs and trapsins i change my ss for a beast and turn into wearbear this gives me 68xx life with max resi(have many +5,+4 all res sc) its attack is also way better than using ww cos i just run up to them and if they dont tele they jsut stand there blocking or taking hits. The attack is very fast and very powerful. Infact if youre dueling in public sorcs/trapsins/foh are a joke nozokan and inferno strides with above 6.5k life stops firesorcs and thundergods is easily enough for trapsins. 4 topaz shield beats foher. 4 saphire beats blizz/fo. Havent fought any good lightning sorcs yet not sure wether the good ones will need anything more than a thundergods though.

Druids is using the bear tactic as above but this is also down to me not finding any good ones to duel(BTW im non ladder europe) all the ones i fight seem to have pathetic hit recoverys.

As for necs i might try what u said cos using beast and botd doesnt kill them fast enough unless they have 0 p & b skiller and try and tank me i get owned.

As for hammerdins i usually dont even try to fight them the only way you can win is to try and get in there dead spot but all the good hammerdins dont just stand still facing one direction and spam hammers. Teleing in and ww is nearly always suicide , you may get lucky and both end up dieing but its way too risky as you still have to watch out for hammers flying around after they are dead.

[Fire_Dragon]

**** beast runeword... my barb has 6.3k life w/o that dumb weapon. Stick with wiz spike, hammerdins r stupid anyway (most r, pubby speaking). A fun trick is to get them to chase u (never chase a hammerdin...) then when they tele onto u, short ww away then tele, there hammers wont catch u! make sure ur always belwo them if possible (seems to be safest angle for this method). Sorcs definately wiz spike. Wind druids r interesting... i keep my ss on and will occasionally tele at them and short ww if they're dumb enough to get 2 close. Let the druid chase u, ur SS stops most of their dmg anyway (which is rather puny, no offense wind druids, not exactly the quickest killers on bnet, but still effective :)). As for necros... ur ****ed. Sorry, but the top necros on east mincmeat me, and i do mean top necros, not the pubby idiots. Nothing u can do about a necro unless they have a ****ty bone armor (and this is RARE). Stick with the wizspike, awsome wep for all casters (even necros if u insist on battling them).

[World Breaker]

hows it possible to get 6k life+ do u have base stats or something i dont understand this at all. Or are you using duped charms?
Also you say your are east so the dupes on there maybe a little different to ones on europe, is there somethnig that gives huge life bonus that we dont have and also do you have max block or is ur barb just anti caster. I have only 47xx with my barb vs barb gear on i just cant see how 6k+ is possible at all. I have ani and about 10 18,19,20 vita charms and 3 warcrys with 20life+ however i dont have any 32020's because i dont wan to use non legit gear.

Also as you are calling beast **** i would like to know what you use vs life tap smiters as ive found botd/beast and dmg amp charge dagger is best.(using ww not bear mode)

[Dr4kan]

well it actually aint too hard getting so much hp imo.
my barb doesnt have the best gear imo(charms speaking) i jus swapped a botd axe for an etheral one yesterday(seeing as my dam sucked)
and he has 4.2k hp with bo, and he might have 1-2 life charms on him, the rest are all plain max/ar charms, and hes only lvl 81. i can imagine him using 3.20.20s or 3.xx.10+ hp charms, this will get boosted alot by battle orders.
its easy for barbs to get 5k+ hp in 1.10 due to enigma and botd/anni saving u so many stats, my barb has base 42 str and has like 215 str with all items on which is enough :) still i might gonna have to work on my res in hell.
4.2k hp and still going strong, i dont really have much prob with that kind of hp, when i get rich enough to get better charms tho :thumbsup:

[spencert]

6k + life is possible for vita baba. That has be established before in previous posts. This includes prebuff of cos.

Thanks fire_dragon... will check out some of your strategies.

For the rest, give as many strategies as possible... I'd like to hear different viewpoints / success against different characters. Even outside the casters/ hammerdin/ wind druid circle. There seems to be a short of strategies and builds for WW barb against them. Or at least I dont see many around.

[Dr4kan]

6k + life is possible for vita baba. That has be established before in previous posts. This includes prebuff of cos.

Thanks fire_dragon... will check out some of your strategies.

For the rest, give as many strategies as possible... I'd like to hear different viewpoints / success against different characters. Even outside the casters/ hammerdin/ wind druid circle. There seems to be a short of strategies and builds for WW barb against them. Or at least I dont see many around.

well vs hammerdins/winds, u gotta realise that they are shortrange fighters, the hammerdin was pathetic in 1.09 cuz he had to run up to ppl to hit em, and did pathetic dam, now those things have changed, BUT he is still a shortranged fighter that cant really "move"
the first thing a hammerdin will think when he sees u is "2 hit kill" and teleport to ya, now ive tried dueling one of my friends "friend" (i dont like him very much, an arrogant bastard :P) which used a hammerdin, enigma and blablabla, there will always be a short delay when they teleport, so use that second to take 1 step down, or ww downwards away from him, if ur lucky u can get 1-2 hits in if he doesnt block, rinse and repeat, never run up to a pala, make him come to u.

as for druids
the same thing counts, they have short range, but do alot less damage, get max cold res, 40-50 dr and good life, they too often teleport on top of ya, so do the same thing, about wwing away from em, if they get low on life they will start running/teleing away, if they jus run, make a quick tele on top of em for the last ww. i havent duelled too many winds with my barb, as i havent used him in a while, but starting a bit now again since yesterday. but imo these 2 chars are not very "good" pvp chars in sense of real dueling, as u can always make a quick sidestep or something to avoid getting hit, running speed is key, the necro on the other hand, if u can come up with a trick to consistantly win against one, i shall worship u :worship:

[Mn_Swe2]

the necro on the other hand, if u can come up with a trick to consistantly win against one, i shall worship u :worship:

I have no experience with Barbs or high-lvl duelling, but how does leap attack work? Can you be hit by the necros BS (spear, spirit) when you're flying through the air.

Otherwise it sounds like a leap attack barb running/leaping around with a long-ranged weapon (for increase of hit-probability) could do it? Just have to continue leaping until you get a lucky hit, him running or tele'ing into your attack area just as you land?

/Magnus

[World Breaker]

me and me mates duels sometimes turn into leap attack contest it semms very buggy. Sometimes you get hit by ww while in the air sometimes you dont. Besides its way too slow any necro will easily move to the side or tele away and punish with bone spears where you are about to land

[Fire_Dragon]

To WorldBreaker: Smiters = ez pk. Use a triangle ww method, it makes their shift + smite almost useless. If your terrible at wwing (most barbs r... sadly) then just buy a knife from hell shops w/ 105 charges of lvl 6-8 life tap. Cast it on them and ww away... (I only recommend this to barbs who just suck... learn to ww, u won't need ur own lifetap :sleep: ). Also my barb is built for BvB (I'm currently #3 sword baba on east and I believe #5 baba all around including axe barbs), but I'm more than capable of killing any caster (minus those damn necros lol).

To Dr4kan: Don't max cold resist against wind druids... As long as u have a raven on u r fine. Ur ss does the rest. U don't need max cold, never will... besides their hurricane isnt full cold dmg at all...

Back to the post: I forgot to mention bliz sorcs... here goes. They r a pain the ***! Make sure u have a raven on, max cold resist and if possbile more than max cold resist (cuz tey're cold mastery can knock u down 2 -100cold resist). NEVER chase a bliz sorc, it's sucide. Watch them on the automap and keep running at all times (so u don't get stuck under a damn blizzard by someone using mh from 8 screens away). When they get close 2 u on automap and your SURE they have NOT cast a blizzard on themself yet tele on them, short ww and tele away. I know it's tough becuz when ur ww hits them ur tempted 2 keep wwing cuz u c their life dropping... dont! Tele away and repeat this process, u have to wear a blizzard sorc out, if u stand on them they'll blizzard ur big bald barb head... This drill takes the most practice and patience out of any of the strats I've suggested. U gotta learn to anticipate where they will prob tele next and where they like to put blizzards (many like to tele near u 2 temp u, cast a blizzard on themself and tele away, then u tele right into a blizzard...). Patience is key, and if the sorc is on ur screen, don't bother teleing at her, she has had enough time to cast a bliz on herself already (it will b hitting u .05 secs l8r :lol: ).

[World Breaker]

thx fire_dragon im sorry i doubted your tactics/stats i didnt realise you had lots of dueling experience. I tried that wizard spike out with a malice sword. The wizard spike gives me an edge over casters i never thought barbs could get so fast and ive recently bagged some nice necro ears. Using your tactics i can see the barb has a chance in all matchups and is a very strong char.

[spencert]

I have no experience with Barbs or high-lvl duelling, but how does leap attack work? Can you be hit by the necros BS (spear, spirit) when you're flying through the air.

Otherwise it sounds like a leap attack barb running/leaping around with a long-ranged weapon (for increase of hit-probability) could do it? Just have to continue leaping until you get a lucky hit, him running or tele'ing into your attack area just as you land?

/Magnus
Magnus: Leap attack dont cut it... u get hit by hammer even in mid leap. I think same will apply to bone spirits/spear.

Thanks Fire_Dragon, Dr4kan & rest for sharing your strategies. This I'm sure will help bring up Barb's image in the dueling communities. Keep 'em coming.... :drool:

[Fire_Dragon]

thx fire_dragon im sorry i doubted your tactics/stats i didnt realise you had lots of dueling experience. I tried that wizard spike out with a malice sword. The wizard spike gives me an edge over casters i never thought barbs could get so fast and ive recently bagged some nice necro ears. Using your tactics i can see the barb has a chance in all matchups and is a very strong char.
If u really wanna have fun against necros ( :lol: this is sooooo evil) then heres wut I recommend. 2x rings w/ 10%fcr each. Amy w/ 10%fcr, arachnid w/ 20% fcr and a helm (maybe 08 valk if ur into that stuff... blah) or a rare criclet w/ 20% fcr and other godly mods (+life/mana, 2 barb skills, +%ed, 1-2x o/s). This setup lets u hit the 63% fcr bp for a tele barb. This now alows u 2 use a botd ghost spear on necros :idea: . This badboy does INSANE dmg! U can cut through ANY bone armor with it and with range 5 u "almost" always connect with ur ww. Once again be sneaky. Don't let the necro spam up the map with BS and their ****ty iBS, run/tele away if they do (I believe iBS disappear after 3-4 screen lengths so thats how far u gotta travel). Occasionally tele onto the necro and short ww them (try adn get a fast ww "lock" if ur good enough, can b VERY difficult). Rule of thumb is, if u can c the necro, u got a 50% chance of ww locking them if ur fast w/ ur mouse and hotkeys). If their bone armors goes out after your first short whirl finish them off! DONT give them time 2 recast bone armor! Usually they can't tele away at this point unless they got MASSIVE fhr in which case they have sacrificed much needed life. Now u can finish them in 1-3 SHORT ww's. Remember, key here is having a good short ww, if u mistakenly long ww ur ****ed... But this setup has gotten me some very nice necro ears by allowing me to tele fast as hell and do even more dmg than a botd cb or zerker. Have fun grabbing more ears :lol: .

[mstrnicegui]

nice strategy fire_dragon, I knew that eventually, someone would find a way to be on the level with necros dueling and this sounds pretty damn good.

question though, you suggest a ghost spear for botd, but hal has directly answered a question of mine about ghost spear vs great poleaxe and said because of the stat reqs, great poleaxe makes a better base. Is there a reason you like ghost spear other than aesthetics?

[Fire_Dragon]

nice strategy fire_dragon, I knew that eventually, someone would find a way to be on the level with necros dueling and this sounds pretty damn good.

question though, you suggest a ghost spear for botd, but hal has directly answered a question of mine about ghost spear vs great poleaxe and said because of the stat reqs, great poleaxe makes a better base. Is there a reason you like ghost spear other than aesthetics?
Well, my personal reason is dmg. eth Ghost Spear has "higher" max dmg, but lower min dmg. Now it can be argued that higher min dmg is better, but IMO it isn't true in this instance (ww barb vs bone necro specifically). Both weps have range 5 and so when u connect w/ the necro u get ALOT of hits in. Because of this, even if u do hit on the low end, u will also inevitably hit on the high end for some seriousely pyschotic dmg! Because of this I prefer ghost spear... it's up 2 u, but I've had great success w/ my ghost spear and like the old saying goes, "Damage is King!"

[Fire_Dragon]

O, almost forgot the stats part... ya, ghost spear has high dex req, but any "good/well built and equiped" barb will always have that much dex w/ items... they need it for max block at higher lvls... 90+ etc. U can build a barb w/ relatively low dex, but once they r fully equipped they easily have enough 2 weild it. No worries here :).

[dumbpig]

everything is generally pretty easy for barb, best setup for fighting nearly everything is beast + botd. u get exactly the same average damage as two botds, but with a beast u have extra crushing blow and open wounds as well as 9 frame swing with no extra ias.

usually, i use arachnid mesh + 2 ravens/highlord for 11 frame cast, if im fighting faster people then 2 duped fcr rings (eagle turns for west) for the 10 frame break. hitting 9 frame isnt neccesary if you have to sacrifice 50% the damage and OW chance and whatnot

for blizz sorcs / screwing around wtih people i use two um wizarspikes, 2 ravens, and arachnid mesh for 8 frame cast and pretty good chance of an OW every time i hit, and its quite easy to hit. side benefit is that with this setup you get automatic resist stacking to a huge degree, about 1k mana, but the downside is crap AR (7k with enchant) and wont work vs some paladins.

good tactic vs hammerdin is to stand there and throw your warcry knives, or get widowmaker if your on ladder, and this pressures them to go on the offensive since if they stay at a range OW eats their health slowly. then when they tele/charge/walk at u, ww away and they get hit, and die. dont stand around vs vigor charging hammerdins, instead ww into the hammer fields since that is the one place you can be sure the hammer's ARENT. this only work on those who vigor charge excessively...

VS necro, mathematically a barb will beat a necro fairly easily since barbs have a 4 frame delay on the ww, 4 frames to pass before the first hit, and a 4 frame arriveal time on tele; a necro needs 9 frame to tele away, and if you excute perfect triangle whirls and the necro was doing anything except teleporting away at the time you arrive, he will either lose alot of health or die. the only time a barb actually loses out in a vs necro fight are if you get hit by IBS due to not being offensive enough, and getting hit after a ww, which is the majority of the cases.

since after a teleport, a barb will have his cursor in the same relative position as before he clicked tele, 99% of the time a barb will end up whirling for about half a screen distant while a long train of bs and spears peg at him from behind, and kill him after the ww. therefore, to beat necros all a person has to do is practice moving the cursor back to the middle of the screen so that he short whirls immedeatly after a tele, and starts short whirling like nuts after that. usually with this method nothing but the best necro / your own mistakes / lag will make you lose, since the necro will be unable to shoot back and at at least he will take 500 damage from OW. you'll usually never get beaten by necros and get better than 50% win ratios on the best of the best of the best

by the way using long weapons 2handed is NOT as good as using 2 short weapons, since the only/best way to whirl is the short whirl, and since the rate of attack is still 4 frames even with a long weapon, getting to 2.5 fpa with 2 weapons is better than range 5 two hander.

side note... ww speed is your run speed, thats why with engima/gore + 40% runspeed skill you'll hit 2 times for a full on ww cause u stay in range for a far shorter time. thats why you use short whirls, so that it appoximates the rate of hitting of a 109 6-hit ww.

assuming everyone plays properly a barb will beat wind druids every time, a bone necro more than 3/4 of the time, and a hammerdin ( assuming no excessive prayering / use of invisible hammers) all the time.

[Fire_Dragon]

............................................. Hal, will u take this 1? I just don't have the energy left for another lengthy post...

[dumbpig]

haw haw haw not much more to say

[spencert]

Hey, I got an idea against bone nec... A fire rogue merc with UM'd WF, Ophan set helm with ed/ias *** and duress armor. Equip yourself with 2 wizardpike (um'd) and anarchid mesh for 8 frames. Teleport in circles around the nec. Man I will feel sorry for the nec, I don't think he will have much of a chance. :lol:

WF merc for barb... :lol: