"MEMORY" VS MANG SONG'S LESSON

[enigmachine]

Accidentally, this has been double posted (was in Sorceress Forum, logged in and didn't realise I was somehow in Player Match up), so no need to castigate me:


I can see that Memory has +3 Sorceress Skills and Mang Song's Lesson (MSL) has +5 All Skills.

Memory obviously gives +2 Static Field and +3 Energy Shield, which would free up some points and make those skills +5 and +6 respectively.

MSL has the resistance reductions, slightly less Faster Cast Rate but Mana Regen.

Would it be better to have the +5 to all skills and the resistance reductions or the +5 and +6 of Memory, with its other bonuses as well?

I am planning a cold sorc and would like the emphasis to be on maximum pvm kill ability.

Which would be the better staff, either standalone or as a switch?

Would that be the same for pvp?

Would this be the same for all elements?

[Soepgroente]

Mang's song would be better, without telekinesis your ES won't be effective anyway.

PvP kinda needs a shield + orb :hanky:

[enigmachine]

That has prompted me to want to clarify something. I want to be clear, because I don't really have a head for numbers and calculations.

The plan is still to max Blizzard and the skills synergistic with it.

I'd like to put a bare minimum into the Telekinesis and Energy Shield combo.

Looking at staves, the options are:

1) Memory - Assign a point to Telekinesis, but have the other points free
2) Mang Song's Lesson - Assign a point to Telekinesis, Energy Shield and the prerequisites, but have a higher universal boost.

Now that both options allow the combo, which allows for the greatest damage boost?


Once that has been answered, is there another weapon that would do more? I'm thinking possibly a maxed Death's Fathom (I have one, though not quite maxed), but I'm not sure if the percentage to damage increase would give more than the skill bonuses of the other options.

[Soepgroente]

15% Death's fanthom + lidless wall beats either option by a long shot. You could always keep the memory on switch for pre-casting ES. No worries there :)

[GenXCub]

Remember, the pre-set skills stay with a memory runeword, so if you found a staff with +3 ES and +3 Static, they would stay.

[enigmachine]

GenXCub: It's not that I do not pay attention, but that I am not one for calculations. I had realised what you said, but prefer to be certain with items and skills... and take bonuses as they come.

Soepgroente: I suspected as much. I'd like to see what you think can make the greatest combined Blizzard damage, in terms of other items wearable. Indeed, certain items contribute to damage.

Death's Fathom will be the weapon, but there are things like Nightwing's Veil and Ormus' Robes. Putting aside the issue of the wealth needed to acrue such items, what should I put in each slot, to crank out the last possible damage points? I realise I do not have to, but choose to instead.

[Lyrs]

If you're going all out dmg, than 5/5 cold facets.

[enigmachine]

Indeed but, as I'm not a fan of calculations, I'm more interested in the sort of items (see last message) that will increase damage output.

[Yossarian]

4 socket armor with 4 5/5 cold facets.
Nightwing with 5/5 cold facet.
4 socket shield with 4 5/5 cold facets.
Fathom
2 Sojs
Snowclash

+90% damage -45% res

[Soepgroente]

Nonono, +3 blizzard ormus robe :) (has more damage and 20 cast for only -15 resist loss and maybe up to 100 life) and other then that you could wear +3 cold ammy, but it'll use more points in teleport 'n all. And cold skill charms of course :spy: +skills and %dmg help a lot.

[enigmachine]

From those posts and the earlier discussion, we now have:

Headgear: Nightwing's Veil
Amulet: +3 Cold Amulet
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus's Robe (+3 Blizzard)
Shield: 4 socket shield & 4 x 5/5 Cold Facet
Gloves: ?
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Snowclash
Boots: ?

Elsewhere, "Prodigy" posted (for an orb sorceress):

Headgear: Glacial Diadem of the Magus
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of the Magus
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus' Robes
Shield: Jeweller’s Monarch of Deflecting
Gloves: Magefist
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
Boots: Anything

Maximum Blizzard damage (for the hell of it, before you ask) the goal, how does his list compare?

Where different, which item option(s) would you choose?

Which of those socket? I assume certain items, but I've been told certain items can no longer be!

[Spook_Cell]

Actually you are better off using a resist shield and cold skillers because +1 to blizzard gives more dmg than +5% dmg Facets. Of course if you don't care about resists go for the 4 socket shield with Faccets.

[enigmachine]

Of course that is indeed on option, but not the one I was looking for. Thanks for the input though!

I guess something of my last message must have been cut off, which would explain the confusion.

The point I mean to emphasise is:

"Maximum Blizzard damage (for the hell of it, before you ask) the goal, how does his list compare?"

I'll add that into the post, as it was meant to be:


From those posts and the earlier discussion, we now have:

Headgear: Nightwing's Veil
Amulet: +3 Cold Amulet
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus's Robe (+3 Blizzard)
Shield: 4 socket shield & 4 x 5/5 Cold Facet
Gloves: ?
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Snowclash
Boots: ?

Elsewhere, "Prodigy" posted (for an orb sorceress):

Headgear: Glacial Diadem of the Magus
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of the Magus
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus' Robes
Shield: Jeweller’s Monarch of Deflecting
Gloves: Magefist
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
Boots: Anything


Maximum Blizzard damage (for the hell of it, before you ask) the goal, how does his list compare?

Where different, which item option(s) would you choose?

Which of those socket? I assume certain items, but I've been told certain items can no longer be!

[enigmachine]

I've looked again and it seems I did include the line the first time.

I guess my browser wasn't working or there was a lot of traffic, when I checked yesterday, something I haven't the patience for.

So what do you reckon? Which item in each category, as far as the comparison goes, would you choose?

[hypermonkeytl]

Boots = War Travs, no doubt :)

[Soepgroente]

Boots = War Travs, no doubt :)
Nah a sorc usually won't have 95 str. It's nice with the mf but if you couldn't care less: go waterwalks. 'specially for PvP. 5 more stats on wartravs, or 5 less if you don't have a heavier item. That vs. 65 life :p

[enigmachine]

Ok... boots added to the collective max blizzard damage setup:

Headgear: Nightwing's Veil
Amulet: +3 Cold Amulet
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus's Robe (+3 Blizzard)
Shield: 4 socket shield & 4 x 5/5 Cold Facet
Gloves: ?
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Snowclash
Boots: Waterwalk

Elsewhere, "Prodigy" posted (for an orb sorceress):

Headgear: Glacial Diadem of the Magus
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of the Magus
Weapon: Death's Fathom
Armour: Ormus' Robes
Shield: Jeweller’s Monarch of Deflecting
Gloves: Magefist
Rings: Stone of Jordan (x2)
Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
Boots: Anything


These questions remain:

Maximum Blizzard damage (for the hell of it, before you ask) the goal, how does his list compare?

Where different, which item option(s) would you choose?

Which of those socket? I assume certain items, but I've been told certain items can no longer be!

[chinaman1472]

Since I actually like adding up numbers. Now, you're talking about maximum dmg regardless of wealth.. so here we go.

Helm: Perfect Nighwing's Veil w/ 5/5 facet (+2 skills, 20% dmg)
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of (Magus for fast cast) or (Whale for +100 life) (+3 skills)
Weapon: Perfect Death's Fathom w/ 5/5 facet (+3 skills, 35% dmg)
Armor: Ormus' Robe (15% Cold Damage, +3 Blizzard) w/ 5/5 facet (20% cold dmg)
Sheild: Jeweler's Monarch of Deflecting w/ 4x 5/5 facets (20% cold dmg)
Rings: SoJs or BKs (+2 skills)
Gloves: Magefist or Trang-Oul's
Belt: Snowclash (+2 Blizzard)
Boots: Waterwalk
Charms: 10x Cold Charms (w/ life), 1x Annihilus
On switch: CTA (for Battle Command, +1)

This gives +22 to Cold Skills, extra +5 to Blizzard, and +105% Cold Damage... making it lvl 47 with all synergies maxed.. it'll give:

Total Blizzard Damage without calculating -resistance: 18245 - 18868

[enigmachine]

That is what I was looking for!

There remain one or two options:


We agree on:

Helm: Perfect Nighwing's Veil w/ 5/5 facet (+2 skills, 20% dmg)
Weapon: Perfect Death's Fathom w/ 5/5 facet (+3 skills, 35% dmg)
Armor: Ormus' Robe (15% Cold Damage, +3 Blizzard) w/ 5/5 facet (20% cold dmg)
Sheild: Jeweler's Monarch of Deflecting w/ 4x 5/5 facets (20% cold dmg)
Belt: Snowclash (+2 Blizzard)
Boots: Waterwalk

However, options remain:
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of (Magus for fast cast) or (Whale for +100 life) (+3 skills)
Rings: SoJs or BKs (+2 skills)
Gloves: Magefist or Trang-Oul's

Also:
Charms: 10x Cold Charms (w/ life), 1x Annihilus
On switch: CTA (for Battle Command, +1)


Which amulet would you choose and why?
Which rings would you choose and why?
Which gloves would you choose and why?

Keep in mind the goal: maximum Blizzard damage!

Which of each provides maximum damage or damage dealing capabilities?

What size are those charms?

For the less initiated, what does CTA stand for (note to all: please avoid abbreviations)?

[Yossarian]

Which amulet would you choose and why?
+life with Blizzard, because of casting delay.

Which rings would you choose and why?
Soj +mana %

If you are going to need more mana, check out marrowwalk instead for boots.

[chinaman1472]

CTA = Call to Arms runeword. It gives +Battle Command and +Battle Orders.
Cold Charms are Grand Charms, 3 spaces.
Annihilius is a small charm, 1 space.

However, options remain:
Amulet: Glacial Amulet of (Magus for fast cast) or (Whale for +100 life) (+3 skills)
Rings: SoJs or BKs (+2 skills)
Gloves: Magefist or Trang-Oul's
No matter which you pick, it will be the same Blizzard damage.
-If you want to cast faster (for spells such as Teleport), then use Magus, but if you want more life, then use a Whale.
- Sojs add 20% mana, BKs add 40ish life. It's up to PREFERENCE. There's no "right" way to play this game.
- If my resists were terrible, then I would use Trang-Ouls for extra 30% Cold Resist, if not, then I'd use Magefist.

And no, this setup would not be identical for other elements, but that's another story.
In PvP, there are many many many other factors, but I'm not the expert at that.

[enigmachine]

"CTA... Cold Charms are... Annihilius is"
Useful for those who do not know.

"No matter which you pick, it will be the same Blizzard damage."
Did you also see the second halfe of the question... "or damage dealing capabilities?"?

Opinions are interesting to read on which is which, so phrasing it was left open in that manner.

"If you want to cast faster (for spells such as Teleport), then use Magus"
So that would be the answer, looking at the second half of the question (note that this is a statement).

"Sojs add 20% mana"
Ditto the above.

"if not, then I'd use Magefist."
As above.

"And no, this setup would not be identical for other elements"
I can't remember asking, but indeed it would not be. None should.

"In PvP"
I'll add that this is for PVM.

Thanks for the answers.

Anyone else?

[chinaman1472]

"CTA... Cold Charms are... Annihilius is"
Useful for those who do not know.

huh..?

"No matter which you pick, it will be the same Blizzard damage."
Did you also see the second halfe of the question... "or damage dealing capabilities?"?
1. Blizzard has a 2 second cast delay.
2. Those items add the same amount skill, the only differences are the other bonuses they give, such as SOJ giving extra mana vs. BK giving extra life.

Opinions are interesting to read on which is which, so phrasing it was left open in that manner.

"If you want to cast faster (for spells such as Teleport), then use Magus"
So that would be the answer, looking at the second half of the question (note that this is a statement).

"Sojs add 20% mana"
Ditto the above.

"if not, then I'd use Magefist."
As above.

Realize, there is more than 1 way to build, and everyone has their own preference. Some may perfer faster cast while other perfer more life. You're damage and damage dealing capabilities will be the same, since having an extra 100 life doesn't add to the damage, nor does having 10% faster cast rate (as far as blizzard is concerned).



"And no, this setup would not be identical for other elements"
I can't remember asking, but indeed it would not be. None should.


Check your very first post.

[Soepgroente]

Helm: Perfect Nighwing's Veil w/ 5/5 facet (+2 skills, 20% dmg)
Weapon: Perfect Death's Fathom w/ 5/5 facet (+3 skills, 35% dmg)
Armor: Ormus' Robe (15% Cold Damage, +3 Blizzard) w/ 5/5 facet (20% cold dmg)
Sheild: Jeweler's Monarch of Deflecting w/ 4x 5/5 facets (20% cold dmg)
Belt: Snowclash (+2 Blizzard)
Amulet: Glacial Amulet
Rings: SoJs or BKs (+2 skills)
Charms: 10x Cold Charms (w/ life), 1x Annihilus
On switch: CTA (for Battle Command, +1)
This gives +27 to blizzard and 95% cold damage. With -270 resistance for that matter. The final damage will be (with all synergies at 20) 17355-17948. You can squeeze 9237-9459 damage out of ice blast if you switch +3 blizzard to +3 ice blast ormus. This is the optimal damage setup, save skill shrines which i didn't calculate in.

[enigmachine]

Chinaman1472

"huh..?"
Useful for those who do not know.

"the only differences are the other bonuses they give"
The issue of damage was put to the side.

Again... Did you also see the second half of the question... "or damage dealing capabilities?"?

The question is asking for an opinion, based on the obvious bonus differences.

"Realize, there is more than 1 way to build, and everyone has their own preference"
Realise it?

Who do you think you are typing to?

It's precisely because I realise this, that I thought it would be interesting for everyone to read your opinion and the opinions of anyone else who might choose to answer that question!

"Check your very first post"
You check it.

The last two questions spin off the third to last question.

It refers to a choice of staves, not of overall build.

Again... thanks for the (earlier) answers!




Soepgroente

"The final damage will be (with all synergies at 20) 17355-17948"
Thanks for taking the time to do the numbers. Do you have a special tool to help?

"You can squeeze 9237-9459 damage out of ice blast"
I believe I could cope with the iceblast that would result in the +3 going to Blizzard.

Again... thanks for the answers!


Everyone... I reckon this is a dead post, unless you can find another way to crank out the points!