Hammerdin, How is it any Good?

[Draklord]

JEEZ, I HATE HEARING HOW EVERYONE AND THEIR DAD HAS AN UBER HAMMERDIN

I tried a Hammerdin and got it pretty good level, I even used a guide (don't remember where) and it sucked, I got some ok items, my mana ran out in about 10 seconds and it wasn't regening fast enough, my hammers did ok damage, but about 1/10 Hammers hit an enemy

So, can anyone help me here, I want to get a good Hammerdin, but I dunno what i'm doing wrong

[cloakshape66]

u dont need the caps most of us at this forum can read just fine.
you probably just need to aim your hammers more efficiently, the reason why hammers are so powerful is:
a. they r magic damage = no effective resists except wailing beasts (I think thats what they r called) act 3 hell
b. the are unblockable and ITD
c. they 'impale', one hammer can kill an entire mob
d. synergies allow for a brutal amount of damage
e. hammers stay out there for a long time allowing you to make a 'minefield' of death
f. ranged attack, unlike zealots you dont have to risk running into a mob of gloams lets say :)

and most importantly you dont need godly gear! a zealot is only as good as his items. A hammerdin can make it with only mediocre gear. Hammerdins just get more powerful with each + skill!

those reasons put together makes hammers one of the best chars available, with sojs you should have no problems with mana for pvm use redemption and pvp use meditation, pvp you need to learn how to aim hammers, pvm just wing it 9 out of 10 times the monster will walk into the hammers to help you out a bit

[Draklord]

Sigh, Lemme Just take my Crack Pipe out of my mouth and set it right here...
OK, what was that?

JK, Lemme Rephrase in a Simple Manner- How Do I Aim the Hammers? It's a little hard to figure out how to aim them if the person who responds tells me I need to learn to aim them.

EDIT: (so I don't double post) Ok, I read something about how if they r directly to the right- and i tried it, it also recommended redemption, worked well, but then I kept going, and I did ok, but I realized I was right, Hammerdins really do suck, I even did ok with him, but i'm not changing my opinion

[FiNaLoRgYkKzOn]

hammers are basically melee range...i mean if zealots get hit and you want to actually hit monsterse with the hammers and you dont have incredibly godly fcr..the gloams or w/e will see you and chase you and zealots arent as good as their gear..they're only as good as their wep

[shidenx]

Whats your equipment? Do you even use Redemption? Do you practice hammering enough to do it well?

Just because you can't ulitise it well does'nt make it a crap build. Maybe you should review yourself first. Pardon me for a harsh reply.

[Clay.]

Well the hammer always starts at the upper left corner of your character. Make sure you have atleast 75% cast rate. You can always use mana pots, I would leave energy at base because its not really worth uses stat points for mana. If you get an enigma just tele on top of people, switch to concentrate and hammer away. The only characters that give me problems are stacked necros and recasting wolve druids. It takes a little practice to get it down but once you do it can be the most powerful dueler in a public game.

[Draklord]

Uhh Shidenx, I'm guessing you didn't read my EDIT? I tried it with redemption, it worked ok, and I killed a bunch of thing, but, I still agree with myself, it relys WAY too much on perfect positioning, and if you don't have ok gear, then getting close enough to hit them will kill you, I still don't understand how this is any good

[china boy]

In response to cloakshape66:

Both the hammerdin and zealot need good items to work. An elemental zealot is perhaps the easiest Paladin build to find items for, as you just need good Crushing Blow and enough block/defense to keep you alive. Your elemental damage will make up for any physical damage lost.

A fanatic zealot needs an awesome weapon to work efficiently. However, you also need good defense and block, more than an elemental zealot.

A hammerdin, however, needs good fcr which may be hard to get, and good skill boost. Wizardspike helps a lot with the fcr and isn't that hard to get. Some fcr rings, Wizardspike, and some other source of fcr should allow you to break the rasonable 75% fcr.

[prion]

this seems to be a personal perference thing, I tried a hammerdin once and didn't like the playstyle but I wouldn't say they aren't good.

[LovelyGods]

i don't think pure hammer is viable for pvp or pvm..

it needs a second skill for it. Hammers are more defensive, Which means you can't attack with them very easily. Its ment for people coming to you.

So the only class which hammers are effective are vs Barbs. All other classes have a ranged attack. (barb do too, but how many throw barbs u seen? lol)

This is why when u pwn a zealot , then they come back to the game with a pure hammerdin i jsut laugh at em and proceed to pwn hammerdin too.

cuz how is it supposed to win if i dont go near it?

For aiming hamers.

Usually the Charge KB range is enough for hammers. So try Charge / hammer.

also it takes timing, i've learned to time the hammers so that if sombodly follows me i can hammer once and hit once.

[Unrealism]

i don't think pure hammer is viable for pvp or pvm..

it needs a second skill for it. Hammers are more defensive, Which means you can't attack with them very easily. Its ment for people coming to you.

So the only class which hammers are effective are vs Barbs. All other classes have a ranged attack. (barb do too, but how many throw barbs u seen? lol)

This is why when u pwn a zealot , then they come back to the game with a pure hammerdin i jsut laugh at em and proceed to pwn hammerdin too.

cuz how is it supposed to win if i dont go near it?

For aiming hamers.

Usually the Charge KB range is enough for hammers. So try Charge / hammer.

also it takes timing, i've learned to time the hammers so that if sombodly follows me i can hammer once and hit once.

Put an enigma on a hammerdin and its a whole different story in pvp.

[LovelyGods]

Enigma wont save you.

it doesnt even help all that much.

Sure u can teleport But that wont get u very far. Cuz people Expect hammerdins to teleport. so its nothing new.

Thats y no hammerdin beats me now. I expect them all to teleport So i just wait till they do, and i cast 2 hammers or One and they die.

also if i charge at them they die.

so really enigma doesn't help any longer..

you need to find a new way to attack with hammer. Which probably involves foh or something. But i have no idea. Teleport is way over used and is in effective now.

[Clay.]

Enigma wont save you.

it doesnt even help all that much.

Sure u can teleport But that wont get u very far. Cuz people Expect hammerdins to teleport. so its nothing new.

Thats y no hammerdin beats me now. I expect them all to teleport So i just wait till they do, and i cast 2 hammers or One and they die.

also if i charge at them they die.

so really enigma doesn't help any longer..

you need to find a new way to attack with hammer. Which probably involves foh or something. But i have no idea. Teleport is way over used and is in effective now.

I would have to disagree. If you stand still and hammer... its very simple to tele below you and kill you before you can walk away. Furthermore, if are going to charge attack you have a good chance to run into a hammer. Teleporting allows you to avoid hammers along with placing them in certain places that would surround you. If your on UsEast Ladder I could try and show you.

[LovelyGods]

no skilled pvp person is gonna stand still..

i always keep moving.

im a liberator btw not a hammerdin. on Us West non ladder.

See when they click on top of u to teleport they end up landing along side of u just in range for ur hammers and not theirs hitting u this is of course if ur walking around or running.

yes i know about the blind spots for hammers. But that still dont matter.

Its simple really.

And as for charge, i charge them when they begin to move out of the hammer field. or before they land their teleport.

then i quicky Charge / vigor away and cast a few hammers. usualy they follow and die.

So hammerdins arn't a problem no matter how u look at it.

Thats my opnion.

[Clay.]

I would have to assume that you have less than 125% fcr on the paladin. If this is true, by using the oak I usually can teleport ontop of 10fps cast rate hammerdins and hammer twice and kill them before they can kill me. This would involve timing the teleport when you are hammering. It doesn't always work though.

[LovelyGods]

yea i have either Zero fps or 40.

but hammer stuns pala long enough for me to cast 2-3 hammers.

[Clay.]

With fhr less than 7fps it wouldn't stun long enough to make a difference.

[LovelyGods]

meh, its just our opinions are conflicting. :uhhuh:

its not big deal really, im just telling u what i found out and how i kill hammerdins.

ur probably right about that fhr, but remember not all hammerdins are godly, alot of them are noob to a pala, so they arn't skilled in the art of teleporting and hammering. :flip:

[Jpech01]

As a few peeps have already said....
With hammerdins, you get what you pay for. (For ladder west) if you put in the 28 ists for enigma, hoto, Cta, and 10 skill grand charms...your gonna have a pretty nice pally. If you use some crap that you buy from a vendor, good luck getting 5-7k damage and being able to own.

[bradley_turner]

hrm... i played an untwinked hardcore hammerdin in single player, and anyone who says they rely on gear is wrong, anyone who says they suck, is wrong, anyone who says they are hard to play, is, yep you guessed my word, wrong

it takes like 30 mins of practice to get good at throwing the hammers, true, which is way more than meteorb sorcs.... but you know, w/e. i had nearly nothing, just shopped stuff and a tarnhelm that i found from normal duriel. that gear brought me through normal at players 8, and also got me to nm meph, at which point i was doing tons of mf runs, and shopping tele staffs for even faster runs. they require either really insanely better than possible gear, or some skill

[sbc84]

I would have to assume that you have less than 125% fcr on the paladin. If this is true, by using the oak I usually can teleport ontop of 10fps cast rate hammerdins and hammer twice and kill them before they can kill me. This would involve timing the teleport when you are hammering. It doesn't always work though.


This will never work even vs a 11frame casting hammerdin with 15k hammers, who is waiting for you with hammers unless u can surprise them with auto-aim off the screen. Even then it's is kind of risky because they may still be waiting for u.

[sbc84]

Enigma wont save you.

it doesnt even help all that much.

Sure u can teleport But that wont get u very far. Cuz people Expect hammerdins to teleport. so its nothing new.

Thats y no hammerdin beats me now. I expect them all to teleport So i just wait till they do, and i cast 2 hammers or One and they die.

also if i charge at them they die.

so really enigma doesn't help any longer..

you need to find a new way to attack with hammer. Which probably involves foh or something. But i have no idea. Teleport is way over used and is in effective now.

I agree that hammerdin vs hammerdin enigma won't help much if you both play defensive and stay in your own hammerfield. whoever tries to tele on the other person will die.

About "if i charge at them, they die", it's more like "if i charge at them, I die". Any experienced hammerdin should know better that charging into another hammerdin field is suicide.

[sbc84]

i don't think pure hammer is viable for pvp or pvm..

it needs a second skill for it. Hammers are more defensive, Which means you can't attack with them very easily. Its ment for people coming to you.



Vs a good tele hammerdin, the only effective secondary skill is "CHARGING AWAY". Trying doing any other attack besides hammer/tele(or charge away) will result in u being in town naked (or tacky green tight).

[MrPipes]

All I can say is that Draklord is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand the guides, and go and follow them on your own hammerdin, there is absolutely no reason why you should be complaining about how your hammerdin "isn't 1337 like ma friendz uber phat r0x0r h@mm3rd!n".

[Tanatus]

Well hammerdins IS easy to play and to make decent hammerdin you dont need godly gear at least for PvM. Ok you cannt afford HOTO and wont use wizzard spike because of no skills - get suicide branch same 50FCR +1 skills +10 resist +10% to max mana imo much better choice then wizardspike (if you can get resistance elsewhere from gear). Armor - well enigma is great but if you cannt afford one - so what - make an upped vipermagi socket with rune of your choice and budget its on average and cheap upped viper you can get around 27-28 resist all 30FCR +1 skill around 800 defence. Rings - just gamble for it a lot and its really easy to get 10FCR/prismatic or massive resist couple element/life or mana type. Helm - shako not that hard to trade for but let say you cannt - then get Peasant crown or Lore - both helms have own merits. For belt make upped nightsmoke - it will also help with mana alot (50% damage to mana). Shield - oh well if you cannt get HOZ (and its not cheap by any mean...) get steelclash +1 paladins skills +20% FBR +25% to block +15 resist all - not bad at all. Boots - well tearhauch or upped version of em pretty decent choice 10 resist all +5 str +5 dextr +2 vigor.
I still finishing lvling in NM my hammerdin (he lvl 73 now) for **** and gigle I gave him very low end gear (viper, branch, rare 10FCR rings, magefist, Lore helm, steelclash, tearhauch, nightsmoke, +3 offensive aura amulet) in 8 players game he easy solo WS and damage of hammers only ~5K.
Yes its take time to learn timing for starting littering area with hammers and yes it hard as hell to hit anything with hammer in point-blank range unless its Baal or Diablo. But assuming that you do have 1 point in holy shield and halth brain its not hard at all stay alive and efficient kill everything around you
P.S. btw "maximum damage BH" guid is AWESOME

[Clay.]

This will never work even vs a 11frame casting hammerdin with 15k hammers, who is waiting for you with hammers unless u can surprise them with auto-aim off the screen. Even then it's is kind of risky because they may still be waiting for u.

Well 12k or 15k damage its still two hits on a good hammerdin. I still believe that a 11fps hammerdin would only get one hammer off while the 9fps hammerdin will be able to get two hammers off. I'm fairly sure this is possible. Personally from dueling when I see a very slow cast rate hammerdin I almost always tele on them to kill their hammerdin.

[Snake-Byte]

I've read alot on how you guys duel with blessed hammers. Teleporting on top of people with hammers is just plain stupid.

The only time you should ever bother teleporting on top of someone to kill them is if A) They're a barb (preferably melee) B) they're a zealot, or perhaps FoH'er, or C) if they're a melee druid/amazon

Against other casters, I almost never teleported on top of them. I didn't have to. I used vigor and charge to move, throw a hammer, and move some more. if they got anywhere near me they risked being slammed with an 11k damage invisi-hammer. If, in the rare event, they teled on me... they usually died. The only exceptions to this were revive necros, and wind druids who used wolves. Even then, I had a fair amount of luck in dueling druids/necros.

Necros were the only caster I really had to teleport to duel. Either they would bone prison, or spam bone spirits. When they spam bone spirits, vigorcharge around them, tele on them, and hammer. They usually die in one hit, if not one, they're in fhr long enough for me to get a second off.

[Draklord]

All I can say is that Draklord is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand the guides, and go and follow them on your own hammerdin, there is absolutely no reason why you should be complaining about how your hammerdin "isn't 1337 like ma friendz uber phat r0x0r h@mm3rd!n".

All I can say is that MrPipes is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand- what I'm trying to say, you'd see that I say I have already tried a hammerdin, I managed to kill a few things, but, like i said, before It requires perfect positioning, and getting that perfect positioning requires good equipment so you won't die when you get perfect positioning, so what I think is that Hammerdins deal fine damage, but they'd just be dead before they could kill everything, hammers just aren't made well

[Clay.]

I've read alot on how you guys duel with blessed hammers. Teleporting on top of people with hammers is just plain stupid.

The only time you should ever bother teleporting on top of someone to kill them is if A) They're a barb (preferably melee) B) they're a zealot, or perhaps FoH'er, or C) if they're a melee druid/amazon

Against other casters, I almost never teleported on top of them. I didn't have to. I used vigor and charge to move, throw a hammer, and move some more. if they got anywhere near me they risked being slammed with an 11k damage invisi-hammer. If, in the rare event, they teled on me... they usually died. The only exceptions to this were revive necros, and wind druids who used wolves. Even then, I had a fair amount of luck in dueling druids/necros.

Necros were the only caster I really had to teleport to duel. Either they would bone prison, or spam bone spirits. When they spam bone spirits, vigorcharge around them, tele on them, and hammer. They usually die in one hit, if not one, they're in fhr long enough for me to get a second off.

What is the fun in not being able to see your opponent when he/she dies by your invisible hammer?

[sbc84]

Well 12k or 15k damage its still two hits on a good hammerdin. I still believe that a 11fps hammerdin would only get one hammer off while the 9fps hammerdin will be able to get two hammers off. I'm fairly sure this is possible. Personally from dueling when I see a very slow cast rate hammerdin I almost always tele on them to kill their hammerdin.

I've tested this many times. If u have good ping on west server, I can show you too. When both players have good pings (50 or less), and 4 or 5frames FHR, a 9frame teleporter cannot tele on top a 11frame one without dying first.

[sbc84]

I've read alot on how you guys duel with blessed hammers. Teleporting on top of people with hammers is just plain stupid.

The only time you should ever bother teleporting on top of someone to kill them is if A) They're a barb (preferably melee) B) they're a zealot, or perhaps FoH'er, or C) if they're a melee druid/amazon

Against other casters, I almost never teleported on top of them. I didn't have to. I used vigor and charge to move, throw a hammer, and move some more. if they got anywhere near me they risked being slammed with an 11k damage invisi-hammer. If, in the rare event, they teled on me... they usually died. The only exceptions to this were revive necros, and wind druids who used wolves. Even then, I had a fair amount of luck in dueling druids/necros.

Necros were the only caster I really had to teleport to duel. Either they would bone prison, or spam bone spirits. When they spam bone spirits, vigorcharge around them, tele on them, and hammer. They usually die in one hit, if not one, they're in fhr long enough for me to get a second off.

First of all, trying to tele on top of a WW barb who know how to duel hammerdin is very stupid. He will ww away hitting you while your hammer won't hit him.

Second, besides a good fast sorc (whos elemental damage can be reduced/absorbed by a great deal), bone necro is the only fun matchup for hammerdin. Dueling against wind druid is fun too, but hammerdin has too much advangtages in this matchup (one of them is being able to create your hammerfields anywhere the druid goes).

p.s. and don't ever say that trapsin is a dueling char. It is only good for PK.

[MrPipes]

All I can say is that MrPipes is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand- what I'm trying to say, you'd see that I say I have already tried a hammerdin, I managed to kill a few things, but, like i said, before It requires perfect positioning, and getting that perfect positioning requires good equipment so you won't die when you get perfect positioning, so what I think is that Hammerdins deal fine damage, but they'd just be dead before they could kill everything, hammers just aren't made well

It's quite evident you have very little patience because it doesn't take perfect positioning to kill things with hammerdins. Like I said before, if you take the time to learn how they move and figure out at what angles they leave your character, you don't have to be right beside the baddies just to make sure you kill them.

Uh...since when did perfect positioning ever have to do with good equipment? Positioning has absolutely nothing to do with equipment, but rather the player himself. And what kind of a silly comment is that you won't die when you get perfect positioning?

Like others have said before, just because you can't use a very easy build effectively doesn't mean it is any less effective.

[Dork]

All I can say is that MrPipes is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand- what I'm trying to say, you'd see that I say I have already tried a hammerdin, I managed to kill a few things, but, like i said, before It requires perfect positioning, and getting that perfect positioning requires good equipment so you won't die when you get perfect positioning, so what I think is that Hammerdins deal fine damage, but they'd just be dead before they could kill everything, hammers just aren't made well

I do not sure how you come to conclusion of hammerdin can not kill everything before he is dead. You do not need "perfect" positioning. All you need is to move a little while casting to get the hammer to overlap, and you can get everything. Lastly, walk, do not run, this way you could keep your block % at max.

If you did follow the guide, then you should have a good block, high resist and large life. I do not see how you could be kill by monsters easily. If you always try to rush into a large pack of monsters and got youself killed, do not blame the build, blame your play style.

To said hammerdin suck because you could not use it effectively is just plain ignorant. Every char in this game require a little brain to max their effectiveness. The fact that you could not bring the best out of the build does not mean that the build is suck. Granted there are some build that pose more challenge then the other, but hammerdin is not one of them.

[Draklord]

Uh let's see, the chances of hitting them from afar is extremely low, I throw about 8 Hammers at an immobile monster, guess what happens... They all miss, Hammerdins are so sad, sorry If you lost your glasses before reading, Dork, but I never said I ran into a pack of creatures, I said, I couldn't kill all of them before they killed me

[Draklord]

Lol, I have mucho Patience, I'm only doing what the guides say to do, go directly to the right, if i'm too far away, I never hit anything, perfect positioning is right to the right, lol, everyone tells me to take time to learn, but its sad, I said i have taken time and I have tried many things, but, A hammerdin is not one of those things which I have had any success

[Dork]

Opps sorry about that, bad assumption on my part. So normally what type of monsters that can kill you before you get to them?

If you stand still and launch hammers, if you got it right, then the first 2~3 hammers should kill most monsters. If not, then it does not matter how many hammers you launched. So the trick is too get into range, launch hammers while walking toward the monsters. Melee monsters will run up to you and get themselves killed. Ranged monster will be more of a challenge, but you should be alright if you do not walk straight toward them as most of the missiles will miss you. And if you are facing gloams, then run, do not walk as you could not block the lightning anyway.

ps. How did you know that I do wear glasses? :scratch:

[Syniax]

First of all, i think in my opinion and many others i kno, that a hammerdin is a disgrace of a paladin. Ive seen the original Zealot, The Frost and Lightning, one time i saw a fire one. Then ive seen the great Avenger. But after my year break and 1.10 coming out, i notice these hammerdins runnin around casting there lil "disney" hammers. i always assumed paladins was all about the melee, now these hammerdins come around. They are horrible duelers, hammerdins are easy to take out, because they are stand still characters. They are annoying too, yea they get all this dmg, but they should be kept on the PvM field and not dueling along with melee characters. thats just my opinion though lol i just simply hate them because they are so simple and pose no challenge to the game.

[sbc84]

First of all, i think in my opinion and many others i kno, that a hammerdin is a disgrace of a paladin.

Then obviously, you must be one of those paladin players who already accepted the inferiority of paladin class to necro, druid, and others pvp-wise. To have a chance vs a good necro or druid, you need a hammerdin. I'd played a little pvp paladin in 1.09. I think that playing 1.10 pvp hammerdin is much more challenging (the dueling pace is alot faster, thus faster reflects are needed) when you are dueling against a good necro, wind druid, or sorc (although win or loss vs a sorc, there is always an "*").

Now if you are talking about those hammerdins who only want to pick on melees, I have no comment there. Call them quillrats or whatever u want.

[LovelyGods]

All I can say is that Draklord is a very, very ignorant person. If you take the time to read, and understand the guides, and go and follow them on your own hammerdin, there is absolutely no reason why you should be complaining about how your hammerdin "isn't 1337 like ma friendz uber phat r0x0r h@mm3rd!n".


Ur incorrect The word Hammerdin and Own don't go together.

Peanut Butter And Jelly Yes.

Penn and Teller Yes

Sigfried and Roy Yes


Hammerdin and Own NO.

Hammerdins are wonderful characters if u like Mfing or Doing PvM But hammers alone in pvp is not a good choice. Many other kinds of pala will kill u. And yes im talking about teleport too. Teleport doesn't help not all that much. Even if u teleport a GOOD paladin won't get hit. this includes V/t's and zealots and liberators and any other kind of pala u can think of.

This is why i dont think pure hammers was ever ment for pvp.

[Ragnarod]

First of all, i think in my opinion and many others i kno, that a hammerdin is a disgrace of a paladin. Ive seen the original Zealot, The Frost and Lightning, one time i saw a fire one. Then ive seen the great Avenger. But after my year break and 1.10 coming out, i notice these hammerdins runnin around casting there lil "disney" hammers. i always assumed paladins was all about the melee, now these hammerdins come around. They are horrible duelers, hammerdins are easy to take out, because they are stand still characters. They are annoying too, yea they get all this dmg, but they should be kept on the PvM field and not dueling along with melee characters. thats just my opinion though lol i just simply hate them because they are so simple and pose no challenge to the game.
No matter how many times I see these things, I just can't understand them. Basically, what you're saying is that

- Hammerdins are simple, they pose no challenge to the game
- You prefer melee paladins

The hammerdin player has to aim his hammers carefully to be effective, while as a melee paladin you just have to click on your target and hold until either him or you die, that's a great deal of skill involved in a melee paladin, isn't it?

If a hammerdin sucks, most of the time is because the player sucks, not because of the items the hammerdin wears, as this thread clearly shows. If a melee paladin sucks, it's mainly because their items suck, nothing more. If you think hammerdins are horrible duelers, it's because you haven't dueled any good one, or because they slaughtered you so bad you're in denial now

Being proven that hammerdins require more skill than pure melee paladin builds, and are not item dependant (unlike melee paladins, when you can say that you're as good as your items are), I just don't see how hammerdins pose no challenge, and melee paladins do. Quite frankly, I've been playing hammerdins since 1.05, and I'm tired of all this hammerdin bashing lately just because people flock to the overpowered build of the moment

And one last thing, in my opinion and the opinion of many others I know, players like you are a disgrace to the paladin class. Have a nice day

[LovelyGods]

rag :howdy:

all the hammerdin bashing is from the lack of knowledge that the new comers to pala bring. They think that being bm and teleport hammer is the best thing since sliced bread.

Thats what is fueling all the rage. All people see now is the bm side of dueling and not the good side like Temple games or non bm games.

Yes i've dueled hammerdins that have skill but the majority of pubby hammerdins do indeed use teleport and sometimes doom to win battles. :rant:

So all the negativity is from the "noob" pala people who only see hammerdins as the best alternative.



O Btw i did steal ur avitar on puropse

i did it in honor of u rag hehe...cuz i didn't know u would be back. i can change it if u like. :clap:

[Tanatus]

Well 2 things here
a) is hammerdin most overpowered built in 1.10? - yes imo. Its the ONLY clone that can walk trough hell slaughtering EVERYTHING w/o bothering with such things like resistance, phisical immunity, block rate ect - not a single monster pose a treat. Toss here holy shield, 125FCR and ability to teleport .... its almost like playing game in god mode.
b) is hammerding gods in PvP - no way. Bonners are... well I'd say clever kicksins with MB can give a good run bonner for his money.
c) is hammerdins fun to play? - well everyone can give you different answer depending on YOUR definition of fun - personally I like it - imo it suit better for my playing style even compare to sorcs

[sbc84]

Thats what is fueling all the rage. All people see now is the bm side of dueling and not the good side like Temple games or non bm games.

Yes i've dueled hammerdins that have skill but the majority of pubby hammerdins do indeed use teleport and sometimes doom to win battles. :rant:



Before I start bashing your post, I have to say this: D2 is not (or no longer) the game that involves alot of strategies (WC3 needs alot more strategies to play). And in 1.10, with the new items, D2 is alot more interesting if you like fast-pace, quick-reflect dueling.

Now the first question: why is teleport BM? if the sorc players are not complaining, then other classes shouldn't.

Second question: since most agree that tele bone necs are arguably the best in pvp, don't you want to put on an enigma yourself and give them a good challenge? or would u like to pull back in disgrace and admit that paladin is inferior to necro? (and I mean good necros, not the pubbies necros who fight like oblivion knights)

btw, this is just a game so don't take this too seriously and turn it into flame war. I just like to pick on posts with weak points.

[MrPipes]

OK. I saw two posts since I lasted posted which I'd like to address.

First, by LovelyGods :


Ur incorrect The word Hammerdin and Own don't go together.

Uh. Maybe if you decided to read the post properly, you could figure out that I didn't say hammerdin's own. I said, "your own hammerdin". Before you decide to nitpick at other people's threads, you should take the time to think about what you're critiquing. Or maybe you should take the time to learn how to speak and write the English language properly.

And by the way..."Hammerdin and Own" is three words. Not one.

Secondly, by Tanatus :


a) is hammerdin most overpowered built in 1.10? - yes imo. Its the ONLY clone that can walk trough hell slaughtering EVERYTHING w/o bothering with such things like resistance, phisical immunity, block rate ect - not a single monster pose a treat. Toss here holy shield, 125FCR and ability to teleport .... its almost like playing game in god mode.

Now, albeit that I do think a Hammerdin is the most versatile build now in v1.10, I don't think in any way it is overpowered. Like every other character, Hammerdin's die too. And since when could any build walk through hell, slaughting "EVERYTHING" without bothering with resistance or blocking, among other things? Unless you can get a Hammerdin with sub-par gear (seeing as sub-par would include no resists or fast blocking rate) to level 99 in Hardcore on any server, I don't think you should post such silly remarks.

Just putting my $0.02 in. :grrr:

[Clay.]

Well 2 things here
b) is hammerding gods in PvP - no way. Bonners are... well I'd say clever kicksins with MB can give a good run bonner for his money.
c) is hammerdins fun to play? - well everyone can give you different answer depending on YOUR definition of fun - personally I like it - imo it suit better for my playing style even compare to sorcs

Other than the fact it is really hard to be god, I think that it is more of the player than the actual character that decides which class is best. Experienced hammerdin players can win against other other good necros/ww assasin, druids, bowzons, foh, etc. A 9fps cast rate hammerdin that knows how to duel necros can stay clear of spirits and spears and even teeth until he actually attacks (teles on necro and gets hammer in). I personally think that a bone necro verse hammerdin with equal cast rate and connection is the most fun 1v1 to play.

[cloakshape66]

ya it is kind of an interesting duel because the necro forces you onto the offensive, if you try to hide in a hammerfield youll get the crap spirited out of ya, gotta keep on moving

[Snake-Byte]

First of all, trying to tele on top of a WW barb who know how to duel hammerdin is very stupid. He will ww away hitting you while your hammer won't hit him.
Well, my hammerdin had upwards of 20k defense and 50% damage reduced, along with 3k life. I had a fair amount of success killing whirlwind barbarians, one handed or two, with blessed hammers by teleing on, or near them. If they whirlwind away, so what? They might hit you once for about 400 life, and you're going to take a huge chunk out of their life. Unless you're dueling barbarians with a setup as follows: HoZ, Shako, Enigma, Maras, Arachnids, HoTO, Trangs Gloves, Soul Spurs, SoJs. In which case, you're going to die in one or two hits, so you may as well find a new dueling game, unhostile/party the barb, or remake your paladin so that he can swap gear in the event that you have to duel a character who does mostly, if not all physical damage.


Second, besides a good fast sorc (whos elemental damage can be reduced/absorbed by a great deal), bone necro is the only fun matchup for hammerdin. Dueling against wind druid is fun too, but hammerdin has too much advangtages in this matchup (one of them is being able to create your hammerfields anywhere the druid goes).

p.s. and don't ever say that trapsin is a dueling char. It is only good for PK.

Hammerdins have advantages over wind druids since when? You put me up against a USEast Nonladder Hammerdin, and I'll slay him at least 9 times out of 10 with my druid. Necros and Hammerdins are fun, for the hammerdin maybe. For the necro it's chase chase chase. Because the only hope you have of killing a -good- necro (and no, I dont mean one of these pubby noobs who spams bone spirits at you) is by making him come to you.

And why aren't trapsins dueling chars? They duel just like hammerdins, wind druids, necros, bliz sorcs, and what not don't they?

[Snake-Byte]

What is the fun in not being able to see your opponent when he/she dies by your invisible hammer?

What's the fun in getting impaled by 5k+ bone spears?

[Tanatus]

Well I did not said that hammerding most durable chars in PvM... furysins are or any shadow walker assasins if its matter. CoS grant you total immunity against all ranged attack, fade take care about rare case then you got hit with melee damage or elemental damage, Mind Blast agruebly most overpowered deffensive skill in game its balanced out only by fact that shadow walkers / furysins not the fastest killers and totaly sucks in PvP. Its really take forever to say clean field of black souls that immune to lighting and poison. Hammerdins on opposite have ultimate offence, best area attack in game what cannt be reduced by any mean. Look yours hammers cannt be resisted by monsters, cannt be blocked be monster, ITD, hit multiple targets, one of highest damage per hit in game (assuming you have best/good gear) - no other classes have anything like that. Heck toss here that your offence generally done by lvl 79 and you do have "god-mode" class here. My hammerdin at his lvl 79 solo hell and die only to massive elemetal attack and only because I still have kinda low resistance once they pass mark 50+ ... this built will be invisible for PvM. Even dreaded black souls not pose much treat - just vigor into middle of the pack and start spawn hammers...
About PvP its entierly different story. Couple factors that play role - main is ability to immobilize opponent - 2 clones have it - bonners and shadow walkers, second factor ability to sustein huge damage - I still rank bonners here first (bone armor can absorb insane amount of damage). Lastly ability to deliver massive irresistble damage w/o targeting and again boners are on top here...
Someone asked why trapsins not on top - well simple answer - they cannt sustein any damage and second it not that hard to get maxed resistance to fire or/and lighting and get decent absorb (40%) then get decent FHR and you will kill any trapsin easy once they run out of mana doing MB your sorry arse... Kicksins different story all together - fastest in game attack 7/2/2/2/2/2/2 they can afford to teleport with dragon flight on top even 9FPS hammerdin.
Why I'd not rank hammerdins on top - well - to short range of attack

[GameFellow]

Uh let's see, the chances of hitting them from afar is extremely low, I throw about 8 Hammers at an immobile monster, guess what happens... They all miss, Hammerdins are so sad, sorry If you lost your glasses before reading, Dork, but I never said I ran into a pack of creatures, I said, I couldn't kill all of them before they killed me

I'd like to add a small bit of advice. I too was geting very frustrated by not being able to hit exactly what I wanted to hit. A few things helped me:
1) Took a while, but learned to aim better. And faster cast rate DOES help!
2) I stopped trying to aim at one monsters and just threw a few hammers then changed position slightly and threw more, repeat. Eventually hammers WILL land and kill.
3) Made sure I had a Act2 freeze mercenary. Whatever I can't kill or sometimes when monsters get close to the wall or in a corner my merc takes them out for me. Mercs are invaluable!
4) Even when I was not hitting every individual monster I was aiming at I could still kill all monsters in an entire area a hundred times faster than with just an ordinary Melee Paladin.

My experiences are all based on PVM only.

Don't give up yet. Hammerdins are a joy and one of the easiest Palladin types to play in my humble opinion. But. If you do give up and decide Hammerdins are not for you don't sweat it. You, like everyone else, is entitled to their own opinion.

[Clay.]

What's the fun in getting impaled by 5k+ bone spears?

Knowing that your about to kill them by teleling on their attacking necro.

[sbc84]

Well, my hammerdin had upwards of 20k defense and 50% damage reduced, along with 3k life. I had a fair amount of success killing whirlwind barbarians, one handed or two, with blessed hammers by teleing on, or near them. If they whirlwind away, so what? They might hit you once for about 400 life, and you're going to take a huge chunk out of their life. Unless you're dueling barbarians with a setup as follows: HoZ, Shako, Enigma, Maras, Arachnids, HoTO, Trangs Gloves, Soul Spurs, SoJs. In which case, you're going to die in one or two hits, so you may as well find a new dueling game, unhostile/party the barb, or remake your paladin so that he can swap gear in the event that you have to duel a character who does mostly, if not all physical damage.

Well my hammerdin is ladder so the life may be a little less than non-ladder one. Vs barb, I have 75%fcr, 47%dr, 700mana, 19K+ defense,and about 4.6K life. If you only tele on top of a ww barb to kill him, I know a couple of uswest/ladder barbs who can change your opinions. By teleing on them as they WW away, your hammer will never hit,and their contact damage + openwound damage average about 1k damage per hit. Now if you start tele/hammer around them (not on top), then it's different.




Hammerdins have advantages over wind druids since when? You put me up against a USEast Nonladder Hammerdin, and I'll slay him at least 9 times out of 10 with my druid. Necros and Hammerdins are fun, for the hammerdin maybe. For the necro it's chase chase chase. Because the only hope you have of killing a -good- necro (and no, I dont mean one of these pubby noobs who spams bone spirits at you) is by making him come to you.

Can some good USEast NL hammerdins take up on this? or if you know the best uswest/ladder wind druid, I will duel him just to prove this. The account is *IMFZZZZZ. It is best if we can setup a dueling time on the weekend since I don't log on to d2 much anymore unless to duel a friend or something.



And why aren't trapsins dueling chars? They duel just like hammerdins, wind druids, necros, bliz sorcs, and what not don't they?

With trapsin, it's either you absorb (or have 90-95%max resists) or you can't win. If you don't meet the two above conditions, you can't beat fast tele trapsin (no matter what other char you use). Again if you are on uswest/ladder, I can borrow a crappy-built trapsin to prove this point too.

[Clay.]

Hammerdins have advantages over wind druids since when? You put me up against a USEast Nonladder Hammerdin, and I'll slay him at least 9 times out of 10 with my druid. Necros and Hammerdins are fun, for the hammerdin maybe. For the necro it's chase chase chase. Because the only hope you have of killing a -good- necro (and no, I dont mean one of these pubby noobs who spams bone spirits at you) is by making him come to you.

Hmm, 9 out of 10 times. I usually put on a storm shield and can tank any druid as long as they are not stacked with wolves/bear. If they are, I can usually kill enough wolves to tele on them or just wait till they recast. Too bad i'm on ladder or we could test it.

[sbc84]

Hmm, 9 out of 10 times.

He got it backward. Or he must be dueling alot of tele-alot noobadins that kept jumping on top of him and into his tornados' paths.

Minions never work on hammerdins that don't tele onto them until they are all gone. If anything, the minions' cloud makes hammerfields more effective.

[Snake-Byte]

He got it backward. Or he must be dueling alot of tele-alot noobadins that kept jumping on top of him and into his tornados' paths.

Minions never work on hammerdins that don't tele onto them until they are all gone. If anything, the minions' cloud makes hammerfields more effective.


No, I don't duel tele-alot n00bs. though I have dueled them, they're pie. I duel privately with a group of friends. One of my friends had a hammerdin a little while back, and before she scrapped her hammerdin, we dueled druid vs pala, and I went at least 9 for 10 against her. It's been a while back though, so the number of duels we had is a bit fuzzy. Either way, her non-ladder hammerdin had 4.5k life, I forget how much defense (like it matters) and 50% pdr. I had little to no trouble with her.

If anyone wants to take me up on this offer, feel free.

IM me: SnakeByte1117 (AIM)
Dyskombobulator@hotmail.com/DyslexicKev@hotmail.com (MSN)

I'm on right now, and will be online until 7-8:00 pm EST, and I'll probably get on for a little bit after 9

[HandofElysium]

No, I don't duel tele-alot n00bs. though I have dueled them, they're pie. I duel privately with a group of friends. One of my friends had a hammerdin a little while back, and before she scrapped her hammerdin, we dueled druid vs pala, and I went at least 9 for 10 against her. It's been a while back though, so the number of duels we had is a bit fuzzy. Either way, her non-ladder hammerdin had 4.5k life, I forget how much defense (like it matters) and 50% pdr. I had little to no trouble with her.

If anyone wants to take me up on this offer, feel free.

IM me: SnakeByte1117 (AIM)
Dyskombobulator@hotmail.com/DyslexicKev@hotmail.com (MSN)

I'm on right now, and will be online until 7-8:00 pm EST, and I'll probably get on for a little bit after 9

You can't base supremacy based on duels from one person. Also is this Jen because she isn't a real pally dueler to being with. She is a far superior trapsin sorc player.