View Full Version : Best Windforce replacement
First let me set the ground rules;
The idea of this bow is NOT the best bow argument. It is the best "use me until you get a wf" bow. Example; if the bow has high max dmg or ml or knockback it gets a plus. If it had high min dmg or ll or anythin else I don't care. Also this is SC Ladder PvM. Life is not of importance. Also all weapons have been shaeled as that is what would happen.
Ok now that that's out of the way I have taken what I believe to be the best bows in the game and compared them to a wf. Note I have already calculated ed's n such and am basing this on perfect items. I also have not listed things of unimportance for rules staed above.
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Windforce (10)
35-547 (291)
40% Increased Attack Speed
8% Mana Stolen Per Hit
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback
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Eaglehorn (10)
45-313 (179)
20%IAS
+1 To Amazon Skill Levels
+25 To Dexterity
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Upgraded Lycander's Aim (10)
67-266 (166.5)
40% Increased Attack Speed
+2 To Amazon Skill Levels
+2 To Bow And Crossbow Skills (Amazon Only)
8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)
+20 To Dexterity
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Upgraded Goldstrike Arch (10)
35-238 (136.5)
55-374 (214.5) Demons and Undead
70% Increased Attack Speed
5% Chance To Cast Level 7 Fist Of Heavens On Striking
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Upgraded Witchwild String (0)
89.1-108 (98.55)
40%IAS
+ (1 Per Character Level) 1-99 % Deadly Strike (Based On Character Level)
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My quick thoughts;
I believe that Lycanders actually beats out Eaglehorn here...
I don't think WWS cuts it for all intended purposes...
I am really unsure as whether Goldstrike is perfect or... not. The damage to demons and undead (read: not players) is insane, and it behaves much like wf... but is missing mana leech, and i aint vexing it'
I would really appreciate any input as I have to choose which weapons to trade for/upgrade before the ladder reset...
Shanksie1337
24-04-2004, 18:02
i have to say i'd pick the Lycanders as the ML is a real help (its what i use to lvl for my WF)
But i also have to say if u have ML elsewhere in your gear then an Upp'd WWS is very good, but this imho only shines at higher levels when the DS is at a nice high level.
As for the Eagle, i simply don't like the bow, but thats my perference, and a GSA is nice, but i have to be honest and say i haven't tried it, as the Lycanders does the job.
As for the upgraded versions obviously they have higher lvl requirements so it is very helpful to have a non-upp'd version to use aswell.
That said, if you are lvling in baal runs it doesn't really matter :D
regarding the upgr for Ladder reset, my advise is Lycanders and WWS (i have already up'd a perf WWS and a 1ED of perf Lycanders for just this reason).
Mephisto
24-04-2004, 18:50
Just a suggestion -
Upgraded Kuko Shakuku (0)
38 - 42 to 148 -165
Average (93 - 104)
Adding in the Fire Damage:
78-83 to 328-345
+150-180% Enhanced Damage
Fires Explosive Arrows Or Bolts
Piercing Attack (50%)
Adds 40-180 Fire Damage
+3 To Immolation Arrow
+3 To Bow And Crossbow Skills
An obvious drawback qwould be the 188 DEX requirement. 50% Pierce is nice.
Just another option....
royalesse
24-04-2004, 19:17
Honestly... you're not giving WWS a fair shake... Speed counts and you're also not taking into account the Amp Damage. Lastly, for paracticality it gives you flexible killing power. Amp will remove most immunes and the magic arrow will give you a 2nd form of damage at no cost to skills. Deadly Strike will also save you a ton of skill points as well.
But hey... to each their own... You may just want to try out the WWS and you may be pleasantly surprised.
Properly equipped Witchyzon with 9/2 or better Strafe and an assload of dex > Any other bowazon in my opinion.
Shanksie1337
24-04-2004, 21:08
i really wonder why all the witchyzon's are so defensive :D
most ppl have there own preferences, but only the witchyzon raise up in arms when ppl slight their fav bow.
to be fair, it is a very good bow, and often overlooked my the WF/BoTD crowd, but at a nice high level it is undistinguishable(sp) from a WF - bar the ML/KB. Hence me getting a perfect one upp'd for NL.
Omikron8
24-04-2004, 22:17
I can't resist :)
Use the upgraded witchwild string forever, screw the windforce.
Shanksie1337
24-04-2004, 22:24
i was waiting for u m8 :D
Backdoor Bandit
24-04-2004, 22:45
Since you do not have the possibility to upgrade uniques on non-ladder, I would recommend lycander's. Its a great bow and espcially useful if you have some points in Frozen Arrow.
-Backdoor Bandit
I'd take my PERFECT upgraded WWS over just about anything.
Check it:
Upped WWS (http://www.xeonworld.com/images/witchwild.jpg)
With this bow and my other equipment, I'm firing at 8 frames.
i really wonder why all the witchyzon's are so defensive :D
What do you mean, defensive ?!?!? :lol:
Ok, if I were not using a Witchy on my strafer I would most likely use a Goldstrike. Great damage, needs only 80 off bow IAS to hit 8/2 speed. The Foh animation does slow it up a bit.
If I were going elemental, Lycs or a Kuko would be the way to go.
Other bows to consider would be a cruel Matri or one of those great rares.
lextalionis
25-04-2004, 00:41
WWS is nice because it can get to 8fps firing. Most bows only get to 9. This is a real damage advantage. Not to mention that its all around good, ie the entire package is very good. All the bows have their merits though. Kuko is a great bow. I never thought my Eagle was godly, maybe it was the low min damage? Lycanders is another really good bow.
Shanksie1337
25-04-2004, 02:27
It's a bloody nice bow, and Valind it's nice u found a perfect one to upgrade, but why spoil the whole game by putting in those o so legit 40/15's? And screenshots of my D2 items? get out more :D
lol well I knew this would happen at some point, let alone in the first twelve hours lol. I myself am a keen advocater of the WWS. I am not some ignorant scrub who has never played a zon before, FAR from that in fact. The zon I am actually building for fun is a dexazon. All my points are going into dex. All of them. My gear is pretty much all str (to wear stuff), Ias (for break points), and more damage.
Also one thing I should have noted and I apoligize for causing any confusion is that I am wearing Atma's Scarab. Hence why I did not think WWS to be to great for this build.
Note that I did take into account the firing speed though as I posted it as base 0 compared to the others base 10. Combined with the deadly strike I still thought it a viable contender.
I would have to say that I'm leaning towards Lycanders here or possibly Goldstrike. If you forget about the mana leech needed then I can't see why I would use Lycanders over it... however getting ml somewhere else is not very easy at all as this zon is VERY gear dependant... *head combusts*
It's a bloody nice bow, and Valind it's nice u found a perfect one to upgrade, but why spoil the whole game by putting in those o so legit 40/15's? And screenshots of my D2 items? get out more :D
They ARE legit. Remember...it's on the LADDER. Tee hee!
:winner:
They ARE legit. Remember...it's on the LADDER. Tee hee!
:winner:
Oh my, did you sell your family for them? NICE! :surprise:
Liessa Wyrmbane
25-04-2004, 15:03
I think Lycander's Aim would suit you the most until you can use WF. They are both base speed 10 bows, they both have 20%IAS and they both have mana leech. You wouldn't have to change your gear in any way when you eventually replace Lyc with WF.
They ARE legit. Remember...it's on the LADDER. Tee hee!
:winner:
there are dupes in ladder dont be fooled
I think Lycander's Aim would suit you the most until you can use WF. They are both base speed 10 bows, they both have 20%IAS and they both have mana leech. You wouldn't have to change your gear in any way when you eventually replace Lyc with WF.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. IMO the only thing that may beat out Upped Lycanders here could be a Upped Goldstrike. The damage is just omg...
there are dupes in ladder dont be fooled
If there were duped 40/15 IAS jewels on the LADDER realms, they'd be all over eBay. Since they're not (I've been keeping an eye out for them for quite a while now), I have to assume the ones I have are completely legit.
Just use a buriza till level 73. Its cheap, common, and will blow away nm monsters. I don't see any need to think too much about it. I just spent the week making my strafe zon, just got to level 87, and that's what I used till windforce. Just hop on a bunch of nm baal runs, shouldn't take you long to use the windforce. You'll barely notice the speed difference.
Snarlin Stef
27-04-2004, 19:04
WWS isnt good for pvp... (id love to see a good WWS pvp zon... for real.. not being sarcastic becuase i like the bow more than WF)
WF is good for pvp...
other than that... WWS owns pvm IMO.
mavinas battle hym is a VERY good set for strafe/freeze arrow zon... so dont rule that our if you want to go strafe freezing arrow.
the idea that makes me giggle the most like a school girl is atmas scarab + WWS for a nice high chance to amps dmg... :) tee hee!
then you can eve get some nice rare or magic gloves with chance to cast amp too *i think*
thnx
stef
Omikron8
27-04-2004, 20:16
WWS isnt good for pvp... (id love to see a good WWS pvp zon... for real.. not being sarcastic becuase i like the bow more than WF)
WF is good for pvp...
other than that... WWS owns pvm IMO.
mavinas battle hym is a VERY good set for strafe/freeze arrow zon... so dont rule that our if you want to go strafe freezing arrow.
the idea that makes me giggle the most like a school girl is atmas scarab + WWS for a nice high chance to amps dmg... :) tee hee!
then you can eve get some nice rare or magic gloves with chance to cast amp too *i think*
thnx
stef
That WWS bow shown above with around 110-130 damage would be amazing for PvP. Not only does it have near 100% double damage (lets you put on war travs for extra damage instead of gore riders) but also amp damage which can be further boosted with amp damage. The displayed damage (stop concentrating on this please because everyone does for some stupid reason) may be low but you would be surprised how ~100% DS + Amp Damage + 8 fps speed do well in PvP.
Snarlin Stef
28-04-2004, 00:20
well you cant rely on the amp to trigger in a duel enough to make a difference... duels are just over too fast.
also keep in mind that amazon has a CS skill for double dmg so it makes the 80+ DS kinda redundant.
i think the real advantage of that bow in a duel is the magic arrow... which is like flying bone spirits.
Omikron8
28-04-2004, 01:06
Don't make me bring up the whole debate about damage over time. Whether you are shooting guided at 8 fps or strafing at 2 fps the different between 70-80% DS and ~100% DS WILL make a huge difference in damage over time. A bowazon can also dodge/run away with sufficient run/walk to make the duel last a decent time. The amp damage will also likely trigger if a duel last ~ 1 minute for example. Both Amp Damage and Knocback are "Bad Manner" in private duels but this is pubby so anything goes. Not everyone is armed to the teeth with one hit kill builds.
edit - As for your comment about the level 20 magic arrow on WWS the arrow is ONLY magical when fired as a regular (Normal attack) shot. When used with guided the arrow shot out is a regular physical based arrow.
lol is there a thread that doesn't get taken over by the WWS supporters these days? I love the bow, but IMHO I have concluded that it is not the best replacement for a wf. It has different pluses that make it good, maybe better, but that's not the point. The question is which is MOST LIKE the wf. I still say Upped Lycanders or Upped Goldstrike. Which one however, I am not sure... dmg vs ml.
lextalionis
29-04-2004, 19:22
lol is there a thread that doesn't get taken over by the WWS supporters these days? I love the bow, but IMHO I have concluded that it is not the best replacement for a wf. It has different pluses that make it good, maybe better, but that's not the point. The question is which is MOST LIKE the wf. I still say Upped Lycanders or Upped Goldstrike. Which one however, I am not sure... dmg vs ml.
Rane, that makes a lot of sense, and from that reasoning I would agree those two bows are the most similar.
Personally. For sheer physical damage a rare or cruel bow is the best alternative. Less reqs, equals more dex, equals more damage. A well-played zon can get by with base up to 80-100 vita at the most...
WF is Banned in almost every Europe Duelling Group for PvP. So for that Cruel / Rares are the best bet. And Eagle of course. There are few alternative choices for some real new style of playing PvP though, using massive Open Wounds and similiar. Or a perfect BotD crusader. A deasant bow, IMO ;). However, a BotD is almost useless for some in PvM as the Poison Nova can trigger A LOT, and basicly make you lagg yourself out...
Wizendraw, with it's "-target cold res" would be pretty sweet in the hands of an elemental zon. So would a Hands of Justice, which is pretty much a bit more expensive though.
In reply to those who beleive WWS to be a good PvP bow. Think again folks. Most zons should and does have maxed Critical. With 68% chance of inflicting critical, the Deadly Strike is indeed a nice addition, but not something one should aim for. Cat's Eye and War Trav's usually adds better bonuses than Gories and Highlord's. Although, Gore Riders does have other traits that makes them good for both PvP and PvM. If you DON'T maxe critical, and try to make use of the stat points elsewhere, then it most certainly can be a good choice.
WF is Banned in almost every Europe Duelling Group for PvP. So for that Cruel / Rares are the best bet.
Talking about rares, what's your opinion of this rare bow. It's currently not socketed, but I could socket it at anytime.
Diamond Bow (damage 177-215)
439% ed
20% IAS
245 AR
1-133 lightning damage
4% ML
I believe it might be nice for PvP too.
Liessa Wyrmbane
29-04-2004, 23:11
Talking about rares, what's your opinion of this rare bow. It's currently not socketed, but I could socket it at anytime.
Diamond Bow (damage 177-215)
439% ed
20% IAS
245 AR
1-133 lightning damage
4% ML
I believe it might be nice for PvP too.
That bow is very very good... godly even... That min damage kicks some serious butt! :)
Talking about rares, what's your opinion of this rare bow. It's currently not socketed, but I could socket it at anytime.
Diamond Bow (damage 177-215)
439% ed
20% IAS
245 AR
1-133 lightning damage
4% ML
I believe it might be nice for PvP too.
Diamond Bow are among the best for amazons. There were a few theroetical minimum damage builds around in 1.09. Back then zons were among the most popular duellers. These min builds would deal an average of up to 3K. Basicly 2-3 guided per duell would do the trick.
IMO, only thing lacking on that bow would be some min/max. For now it's just one of the better bows I've seen. The lightning is sweet too. Might not seem like much, but in amazon vs. amazon duells, resistance is often neglected. In fact, amazons often neglect resistances all together...
the idea that makes me giggle the most like a school girl is atmas scarab + WWS for a nice high chance to amps dmg... :) tee hee!
Funny you should mention that. I've got a 1.08 Saracen's Chance ("3% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage" among other things) and I am sort of looking forward to the end of the Ladder season so I can use my upped WWS (2% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage) with my ammy. Hopefully they'll stack normally which would give me a full 5% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage!
Now that is something worth giggling like a little Japanese schoolgirl about! :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
Tee hee hee hee!!!!
theBlackKnight
01-05-2004, 17:30
Funny you should mention that. I've got a 1.08 Saracen's Chance ("3% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage" among other things) and I am sort of looking forward to the end of the Ladder season so I can use my upped WWS (2% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage) with my ammy. Hopefully they'll stack normally which would give me a full 5% Chance to cast level 5 Amplify Damage!
Now that is something worth giggling like a little Japanese schoolgirl about! :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
Tee hee hee hee!!!!
% to cast doesnt stack like that -.-
% to cast doesnt stack like that -.-
Ok...so how does it work then?
theBlackKnight
03-05-2004, 08:02
From everything that I have tried, it doesnt stack for chances to cast the same thing; just like + charges of items dont stack ( no level 42 psn creeper with 2 carrion winds ). In fact, chances to cast curses is unwise to put up for more than 1 curse because they will override eachother most of the time.
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