+DMG to SMITE FROM Asheron and Redeemer

[k3mistry]

hi guys,

can anyone confirm that the +dmg mods from asheron and redeemer adds direct dmg to smite that ignores PVP penalty as well as DR.

i have heard from sources all over that it doesnt adds direct dmg to smite but calculates smite damage differently.

if anyone knows or has done extensive testing with these 2 weapons, any inputs would be greatly appreciated.

thanks in advance.

[Ragnarod]

As far as all my tests go (all made with a Redeemer, haven't tried the other one, but it should work the same way), the damage is added to your Smite damage, after pvp penalties and damage reduction have been applied

If someone else has tested this, and reached a different conclusion, please let us know

[k3mistry]

As far as all my tests go (all made with a Redeemer, haven't tried the other one, but it should work the same way), the damage is added to your Smite damage, after pvp penalties and damage reduction have been applied

If someone else has tested this, and reached a different conclusion, please let us know


hi ragna,

do u mean damage is added after pvp penalties and DR of the initial smite or is the damage added after pvp penalties as well as DR is factored in?

[Ragnarod]

Not really sure about the difference between those two options you suggest, so I'd rather explain what I think happens with an example:

You have a +100 dmg Redeemer, and 2400 smite damage, against someone with 50% damage reduction

2400 smite damage x 1/6 (pvp penalty) = 400 dmg
400 dmg x 1/2 (dr) = 200 dmg

200 dmg would be your effective damage in a normal case. Since the Redeemer adds 100 damage on top of that, your opponent would take 300 damage total

Hope that helps you out

[ROMVS]

Not really sure about the difference between those two options you suggest, so I'd rather explain what I think happens with an example:

You have a +100 dmg Redeemer, and 2400 smite damage, against someone with 50% damage reduction

2400 smite damage x 1/6 (pvp penalty) = 400 dmg
400 dmg x 1/2 (dr) = 200 dmg

200 dmg would be your effective damage in a normal case. Since the Redeemer adds 100 damage on top of that, your opponent would take 300 damage total

Hope that helps you out

Just one question Rags, would you consider that extra dmg as BM?

[YomoKimyata]

there has been some discussion on a different forum that the +damage does not flow through directly, but rather than the xED modifiers on the smite are approximately offset by the PvP and DR penalties. I really have no idea.

I think the easiest way to test is to get a naked pally with no aura and just the redeemer to swat at a naked target and measure the damage taken. since i have no friends <sniff sniff> i haven't been able to check it out myself.

[Ragnarod]

I'm not really sure about that Yomo, you mean that the +dmg is affected by the ED on Smite? That could be possible I guess, you could consider my theory as a sort of simplification on the way it works then, because the results are very similar from those you get in practice

About being BM or not, it's not an easy question I guess. I used the Redeemer myself, and while it's true that it gives you an advantadge, I don't think it's BM. Of course, that depends on your personal definition of BM, and whether your perceive the +dmg added as an unfair advantadge or not... Since you're sacrificing things to use the Redeemer (resistances and life mainly), I don't view it as BM, or at least it's not comparable to someone using Exile, Doom and BO, if you know what I mean

[Smackhard]

The +damage is amplified by smite. I tested with a friend. Here is how we tested. btw this was a while ago so my numbers might be a bit off.

Subject:
Level 90 Naked barb

Tester:
Level 90 Smiter

Items used:
Kite shield (1-4 smite damage)
Scared Targe +2 ect.. ect...
Ethereal redeemer zod'ed and +108

NO crushing blow or open wounds was used in these tests

First test was with the kite shield and silence zerker with no holyshield/aura active so that we could get a baseline. Damage almost didn't register it was like 1 or 2.

Second test was with kite shield and redeemer with no holyshield/aura active so we could measure the amount of damage the redeemer adds. Damage was around 173!!!! OMG!

Third test we geared the barb and I changed back to my targe and silence to get a baseline of damage with holyshield active. I do a little over 3k topend damage with everything active. Damage was around 350 with him having 23 dr, he is a pole barb so was hard to get him to full dr and we didn't think of it but doesn't really matter I think.

Fourth test was with redeemer and targe with everything active and I did well over 700!!! pvp damage to him.

Now there are some disadvantages to the redeemer that rag has already pointed out but a few of my main concerns with this weapon is range and speed. Since redeemer is a mighty scepter it's range 1 and base 0 speed. That means you need 60 ias and a lvl 20 fant to get to 6 frames. That means some difficult gear choices.

Hope all that helps
Cheers
Smack

[fugitive alien2]

The +damage is amplified by smite.

i tried and i can't come up with a +ed, yes/no pvp penalty, yes/no subject to dr scenario that would explain those results. maybe someone else can :cheesy:

[Ragnarod]

This seems like an interesting subject, I'll try to do some testing on it and get back to you once I've reached some kind of conclussion (or if I don't reach any conclussion at all, so you can give me a hand :))

[Smackhard]

i tried and i can't come up with a +ed, yes/no pvp penalty, yes/no subject to dr scenario that would explain those results. maybe someone else can :cheesy:

Well the pvp penalty is easy to answer since I did around 173 damage witha kite shield and no hs/aura. Since the scepter adds 108 x 600% (lvl 40)

(108 + 4) * 6 = 672
672 * .25 = 168

I can't explain the extra 5 damage but like I said in my other post my numbers might be a bit off.

Cheers
Smack

[fugitive alien2]

pvp penalty is 1/6 not 1/4.

also that wouldn't come close to explaining the second test. fanat should be adding about the same as the smite skill was (543 ed at lvl 30), so damage added from redeemer would be more like 240 or less, not 350+.

[jumbo_SHRIMP]

is it something like this???


basically you consider the + damage the same as you consider the holy shield bonus added to the shield damage?
so itd be like
shield smite damage: 22 - 70
holy shield bonus: +57 - 60
total damage:79-130
+600% smite bonus

this is where the displayed damage gets printed to screen

scepter bonus:+108 damage:187-238

+600% smite damage
this is where the scepter does its actual damage

just a thot

phelix

[Smackhard]

pvp penalty is 1/6 not 1/4.

also that wouldn't come close to explaining the second test. fanat should be adding about the same as the smite skill was (543 ed at lvl 30), so damage added from redeemer would be more like 240 or less, not 350+.

We are also talking about bugged damage so the pvp penalty could be different then normal. It's just the way the numbers worked out.

Smack

[fugitive alien2]

is it something like this???


basically you consider the + damage the same as you consider the holy shield bonus added to the shield damage?
so itd be like
shield smite damage: 22 - 70
holy shield bonus: +57 - 60
total damage:79-130
+600% smite bonus

this is where the displayed damage gets printed to screen

scepter bonus:+108 damage:187-238

even if you figure 1400 ed from strength/smite/fanat that's still only max ~590 totel damage in the second test if subject to pvp, not 700+.

interestingly the above DOES work almost exactly in both tests if you add an additional 50% to the redeemer base for being ethereal (hidden +162 instead of +108?)

so someone should do the same tests with non-eth redeemer (me no got tt)

[King's Specter]

This is only partly on topic, but may help – I did some testing to confirm what I heard on other forums about how the +damage mod works:

Nekkid Pally hitting another nekkid pally with a redeemer (normal attack, 372 Str) :

Damage Done:

229, 238, 215, 224, 211, 212, 244, 228, 212 = 223.7 Average Damage

223.7 * 6 = 1324 damage = (base damage)*(1+3.72% str bonus)

So my average base damage was 284.3 (pretty close to my 173 average damage redeemer with the +107 added right to the base damage).

Just to make sure that I wasn’t being fooled with a strange PvP application of the +damage, I ran the same test using a 555% sacrifice attack:

Damage Done:

483, 497, 467, 498, 494 = 487.8 Average Damage

487.8*6 = 2926.8 damage done = (base damage)*(1+3.27+5.55)

Base Damage = 298.0 Considering that I only did 5 test points, my base damage still looks a lot like 173 average redeemer damage plus the 107 “+damage”. Note that in both cases the character screen (incorrectly) displayed the damage as if the 107 were added at the very end.

Smite: Based on this, I don’t think that there is any goofy PvP / DR penalty skipping going on. I strongly suspect that the +damage is getting added to your base shield damage before the skill multiplier kicks in, as others are suggesting.

[Ragnarod]

I remember reading that somehow, an eth Redeemer added more damage to your Smite not so long ago. I don't have any eth Redeemers however, so I haven't tested it

[Vindi66]

I remember reading that somehow, an eth Redeemer added more damage to your Smite not so long ago. I don't have any eth Redeemers however, so I haven't tested it


So has anyone tested this?