Questions about PvP FC. [and its not in the guide] [Archive]

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LovelyGods

21-04-2004, 22:51

Forcefeedback

22-04-2004, 14:25

1) My instinct says that HoW doesn't benefit the fire damage of fireclaw but does add to the physical damage of the weapon and the attack rating of fireclaws.

2) Don't know. :(

3) If you can afford a Stone runeword armor, you can(have to) leave Molten boulder alone and you receive the 16 point synergy from the armor. This doesn't work if any points have been spent on molten boulder.
Why would you put points into werebear? It only adds to defence and physical damage.
If you can afford a Stone armor, I would suggest putting the saved points into lycantrophy. If you still have points left, pump Oak sage for more life.

Remember this is only my opinion.

-Ferro-

22-04-2004, 16:05

1. HoW "only" gives more AR to fireclaws (small phys damage boost just from base weapon damage)

2.Read guide
3. NO BEAR SKILLPOINTS!!!!!
20 fireclaws (did you missed this???)
20 on all 3 first synergies (a must)
Now, either max 4rth syn for even more damage, or invest in Lycantropy (yes, only 1 point in OaK). And one point in Shockwave wonder.

coldarmy13

24-04-2004, 04:41

Fire Claw Questions, that i haven't seen answers in the Guide or Guide Thread.

#1. Does FC get damage / ar from Heart of Wolverene? Or is this mainly for Physical Damage where fire claw is mainly Fire damage?

#2. What is the Best skill placement for this build?

#3 How does this sound...Anything i should change?

10 Lyco
10 Bear
20 Fire Claw
20 Fire storm
20 Moulten Boulder

Now this is the part i don't know..

What last skill to max.... Oak Sage? or a Thrid Synergy or something else?

im planing to use 10 x ss Gc.

Any help would be Great.

Thx. LoVeLy
oak gives u a bigger life boost than lycan, but ppl normally target my oak within the first 5 seconds of the duel. lycan is more reliable. but still...oak is a good shield to have if u duel in nm...because it's immune to phys if that still works.

LovelyGods

24-04-2004, 05:31

coldarmy13

24-04-2004, 07:15

The reason y im asking such "noob" questions is cuz this is my first pvp druid in a long time.... last one i had was in .08..

i also Read B_B's guide and the end result skills is kinda jumbled up in no spaces kind of thing. Making it somewhat confusing. This also a huge change of pace for me.. im used to playing pvp pally's So any other usefull suggestions would be great.

Also. stone runeword adds Molten Boulder Charges, not to the skill itself.
and the synergy only works with the points you put into it, not from + skills As far as i know ...

and ur suggesting i do this..

1 pt Bear

20 Pts Fc

20 Pts Fire Storm

20 Pts Moulten Boulder

20 Pts Volcano

20 Pts Lyco.

1 pt oak sage,

1. pt Tornado Armor.

So thats 3 synergies maxed.

o and another question.. My friend was gonna give me a 5 x Shael -5/5 Fire Facet Phase. is 100 ias good enough? or should i aim for that 110 ias phase(4xshael 2 x 40/15ias)

Also, approx how much Dex do most druids need for max block.... im guessing its around 110 pts at lvl 85.

I was attempting to use the similar stats (as in my pvp liberator guide) for the druid, this would give me upwards of 2400+ life with no Lyco , no bear , no bo, no oak.

i suppose if i added all of those in, i would get a hefty increase.

Any other suggestions would be Great.

Comon help a noob druid fan out hehe.... :lol:

i am b_b. just under a different name, so yes i am familiar with pvp palas as well...u might remember my shock zealot guide and my concdin guide. and no 100ias is not enough. 107 or 110 is what u need in a phase. let me see if i can fix the ending of my guide. i dunno why it did that, but i'll sort out the spaces. ca is a chore to cast, and i only suggest casting it ONCE at the beginning. since u have to shift then cast, then shift again...very dangerous. as for oak...i added all my last points into it...meaning it never maxed out, even at 99 if i got there, just the more life, the merrier. ur choice if u want a 4th syn or more life. dex....my bear has in excess of 200+ lol. then again he was 91? i haven't been back in a couple weeks, so forgive me.

coldarmy13

24-04-2004, 07:22

skills

20[42] fireclaws
20[30] fire storm
20[30] molten boulder
20[30] fissure
1[22] lycan
1[22] werebear
1[10] oak sage
the [#] is where the skill is at with + skill items
gear
jalal's[5/5 fire facet]
28 mara's
110ias +165ar phase blade
chains of honor archon
stormshield[5/5 fire facet]
magefist
bul kathos' band
arachnid mesh
248/19 raven frost
62 life water walks
10x shape charms 40, 32, 26, 26, 25, 17 life. others with minor mods
1/11/13/9 anni charm9x assorted ar, fhr, res sc's

this was my old gear. by the time i got my new bear, he had lots better equip...but sadly i was hacked several weeks ago, so i can't remember the stats of all the new gear. my stats were also different. i had more into oak because i was a higher level i believe.

i just remember having a perf mara's, better frosts, 19/20/10 anni, steel sc's of vita, shape charms with 33-40 life-meaning all 10 were within 33 to 40 life. hope this helps.

shade449

24-04-2004, 22:23

stone runeword adds Molten Boulder Charges, not to the skill itself.
and the synergy only works with the points you put into it, not from + skills As far as i know ...

Im pretty sure that charges count as synergy bonuses if you dont have a single point in that skill. Thats why marrowwalks gives the lvl 33 bone prison synergys and that ring(forgot its name) gives lvl 21 poison creeper synergies.

KOL_Famine

25-04-2004, 06:01

How much more life would you get with 1 lyc Rest Sage compared to 1 Sage rest Lyc ? Unless the sage adds alot more, lyc would probably be the safest bet ?

Crogon

25-04-2004, 07:55

the life bonuses are fairly close, but with lycanthropy you wouldnt have a fragile spirit to keep re-casting. if you'r not going to max a spirit, or at least get it to where it can survive in hell briefly, don't bother with it.

LovelyGods

27-04-2004, 21:51

yea thats y im maxing lyco..

the oak sage is too feeble and dies to easy.

im lvl 45 now...

and going for a no str build..

hopefully i'll have a ton of vita, but i dont know about dex,.

Ed_MarloZon

29-04-2004, 01:54

Can we say bugs boys and girls, yes according to how things are suppose to work you should not get synergy bonuses from charges but there are exceptions and the Stone Bug is one of them, also the Marrowwalk bug is also another one, and the ring is called Carrion Wind.

K.

Im pretty sure that charges count as synergy bonuses if you dont have a single point in that skill. Thats why marrowwalks gives the lvl 33 bone prison synergys and that ring(forgot its name) gives lvl 21 poison creeper synergies.

LovelyGods

29-04-2004, 04:45

ok new update for those who care..lol

im lvl 74

have 4589 life with lvl 1 oak and max lyco.
(this is counting plain SS gc.)

only 1 synergy maxed but total of 3 max at lvl 94

i do around 8000 damage. i suppose i would do more if i buy a Cta but, that will have to wait.

around 25k ar.

max block. (ew like 150+dex ew)

its comin along good....

thx for the help guys..

o btw i have base str of 15.

cheers :buddies:

Jova1

29-04-2004, 10:57

I care.

Good to see Coldarmy posting again, your fireclaws guide inspired me to try one and have to say its my favourite pvp build so far.

Looking at your stats makes me wont to redo my druid, base str ? thats awesome and 4k life ouch, I could not reach 4k. I guess base str and lots in vitality helps. I am guessing you used an armor with base strength and enigma to have enough strength for other items. If you can list your gear that would be appreciated.

Regarding your questions,

As others indicated HoW adds to fireclaws attack rating and to the physical damage of your weapon.

The skill placement you indicated is good, max lycanthropy, fireclaws and at least 3 synergies, rest in the 4th synergy.

Don't worry about your damage it will reach 10-15K as you max rest of the synergies.

Your attack rating is nice.

cheers

KOL_Famine

29-04-2004, 14:31

Yes I care too, I also feel like rebuilding my ladder bear now. At lvl 74 you have 200 more life then me which is going to be a huge difference by 94. Although I went with the CoH build, i'm wondering about how your going to get max resists in hell?. How are you getting such high attack rating ? You must be using angelic rings + ammy or enchant or a nice 160 + ar 110 ias phase and 9 x some nice steel vita's. I'd love for you to post the final gear setup + stats etc of your bear when he hits 94 or pm them to me and jova maybe :P Gl finishing him :)

LovelyGods

29-04-2004, 16:24

i made this guy similar to my paladin (lovelyhaha_GoDs i wrote a guide hehe)

See the idea is to use as little str / dex as possible so u just focus on vita.

Equip for Fc Bear Druid. at lvl 74(note... i dont have the right str yet to fully equip SS, so i have to wear either loaths, or a str ring to use it lol, in 4 lvls i'll have plenty of str for it, so no worries)

Helm: Jalas 190ed (yes defense matters) Socketed with nothing yet.

Gloves: A) Mage Fist, B)Loath Grasp (uswest D2c Glove with str / dex / resist) C) Bloodfist D) Drac'

Boots: Imp's (West D2C item again.)

Belt: Trangs (hey CbF + Def + Life whats not to like?)

Shield : Storm shield ( - 15 / 20ed / 15 fr / 20Lr) this is a must, y in the world would u want to waste stats pts on 156 str?

Weapon: 110ias phase (Shael x 4 , 40/15ias x 2)

Ammy: Angelic

Ring1: Angelic

Ring 2: Angelic(or str / resist ring with dex and Ar)(or Raven Frost)

Armor: Enigma Breast Plate, Yes u read correct Breast Plate, not a typo.

Y such a wimpy armor? Well cuz its only 30 str req. Druid start with 15 so that means that if u get a 15+ anni u have enough str for it. Since it adds 60+ str at lvl 80+ you have plenty for ss, but u may need str on a few other items, Hence the Jalas(20str), and the Imps(18str), if i need more i have loaths(14str), or other rings with str and godly resist(14, 12str)

so let do the math. starting str = 15 + (anni 16) = 32 +Nigma = 7x + Str boots = 9x + jalas = 1xx So guess what, you have plenty of str from nigma so u can use SS with 133str req. Yea i know the numbers might not add up right but hey, its just a example.

But What about ur defense? isn't it gonna be low.?

Yes and No. With a Enigma Breast plate its around 900 defense, And guess what, Those CoH armors are around what defense? Yes thats right, 900. So its not like its a waste of Jah Ber. i believe my enigma breast plate is 856 defense or something like that. Defnse now is around 4k, but as u grow in lvl so does the Defense of SS. Also upgrading things helps a little bit. But might not be wonderful cuz the str req goes up too.

Reguarding Rings / Ammy.

yes i've heard the things, read the guides, But comon, you are seriously gonna tell me u hit every time with 10k ar? Hence the Anglic Stuff.

75 to life , and i think its like 30 to dex. (10 per ring , 10 ammy,)

My pala at lvl 91, on one ring has 1015 ar from it. Now this dont seem like alot but....it acutally gives around 5000 more or almost double what i already had. THis means that while using concentraion(doesn't give any ar at all) i have around 18k ar with charge, then toss in a lvl 23 enchant and wamo, i have 25k ar.

Which i think its way more important then a whole mess of +skills. Sure you want to be able to hit every time and do Godly damage. But is godly damage worth the lack of ar? Another way to avoid using 2 rings, instead use 1, is to get maybe not all SS Gc in the inventory. But then get STEEL GC OF VITA or STEEL SC OF VITA. Max on those 135/50 and 35/20 respectively.
that 135 is to what? AR. Attack Rating.

Now granted my Lyco is lvl 37 after all is said and done(not 44 or 45 etc..) But hey, it still pwns most people. (just not v/t cuz the smite pwns bears lol :lol: )

As for resist. After i have all my resist quests done i am left with around....hmm..lets see...(guesing for now). 58/36/65 poison dont matter cuz those rabies people kill reguardless of what poison resist u have.

Now my Sc are All Crap now. But one.. a Shimering Sc of Vita. 4/19

or if u got 10 x 5/xx life thats 50 more to resist. which would put em all at 75 or better. But lets say u are fighting a pesky foher / or a trap assassin. And they pop convition on you. "what? my resist are like 2" you can also benefit greately from those 11/xx life Resist /vita sc. 11x10 slots is what like 110 more res for lightning. See you can opt to get Statcked resist but it may take away from ur other Ar.

Which is y i do Enchant on that one Tyrant Club. This isn't bm. not like exile or doom or drac's(sometimes) Enchant just makes u have higher ar / damage.

thats y i wasn't kidding when i said i had 25k ar. But if i ever get a CTA. Watch out lol i'll have like 8k life at a higher lvl. (i am just projecting this, not fact yet.)

im also using 10 x SS gc currently only 3 have life 29/20/13 not too bad but not that hot either. im not sure but if the come with resist, that would be even better.

Btw that 4k life is after Transformation and after oak. its only like 3.4k with no oak.

Thats my view and im stickin to it.
LovelyHaHa_GoDs lvl 91 Liberator Us West
ReVo_GoDs lvl 74 Fc Druid

Crogon

29-04-2004, 16:42

a few things i noticed..

1) all the old timers are going to groan at the fact that your using duped 1.09 items.

2) i'm quite certain the you could have gotten away with a better armor, say ancient, if not a low str exceptional or elite.

3) metalgrid ammy's 450 ar and other attributes MIGHT free up a ring slot on this guy.. o wait, this is off ladder. nevermind. :)

4) you shouldn't have any problems finding better charms off-ladder, i would make that your next priority.

LovelyGods

29-04-2004, 16:57

Breast Plate Cuz its not a full plate, so the Fr/w Penitaly isn't too great.

Bears are Slow so u need the Extra Fr/w and a breast plate is the lowest str req armor with the highest defense u can get.
Mage plate has what str req? im not sure but i think that would be a option too.
Dusk has a 77 str req. which may work, i can always switch in the future. But for now i like breast plate. Since i have many + str items i "could" switch if i feel that i can handle the higher str req.

Ancient armor .. nt i'll run too slow :lol: .

and yes charms was my next thing i was working on..

i still have many things to sell for better ones.

and usualy the 09 "duped" things arn't frowned apon in a duel. Considering 98% of people use a duped thing.
Example Your Runes , Charms, Some Gear, Jewels.
Remember its not just gear thats duped, Runes are too, as are charms and jewels

Thx for the input Crogon.
i always like constructive criticism. :thumbsup:

Crogon

29-04-2004, 17:36

i think the point of the duped items would be that this is starting to look suspiciously like a guide. if not, you could make one out of it soon. minus the duped items of course. at any rate, good luck with this guy, it looks like he's going to make it to end-game. :)

-Ferro-

29-04-2004, 18:01

i always like constructive criticism. :thumbsup:

Keep the dupes away of this forum.

PS:Thread reported :thanks:

LovelyGods

29-04-2004, 18:51

lol..are u serious?

u must be on some kind of drug to think that you, yourself doesn't use a dupe. If u dont use any dupes ur lying to ur self. Cuz all high Runes (98%) are dupes, 40/15's max/ ias are duped, 40/10's are duped.

Also, i never said that using dupes was a GOOD IDEA nor did i say that it was the best choice.
its just what i had available to me. If i find legit 30% fr/w 20% fhr / 19 str / 40+resist boots then guess what, i'll use em.

And frankly i dont care if u report me. cuz i did nothing wrong.

im just trying to have a intellegent conversation about a FC druid with people who know druids, so if u have a problem dont read the thread. Problem Solved.

Good Day.

Crogon

29-04-2004, 19:36

don't quote me, but i don't think it's possible to get that sort of boot anymore. i haven't seen 20% fhr or resists all come up on a boot in AGES. I am guessing that this is why bliz let the imp shanks slide, it was one of the most popular duped items, so there's no way they didn't know about them. they left them out of rust storm on purpose (so far) for one reason or other.

the gloves however, are quite easily crafted. btw, that's something you might want to look at, knockback rox in dueling, especially with a really fast attack speed.

LovelyGods

29-04-2004, 19:49

hm..

ur right with the boots. you can't get Fhr on em anylonger.

but the gloves. if i do Kb won't i miss hits ? or willl it help vs smiters?

Kirby Hunter

30-04-2004, 13:15

I keep a range 5 Giant thresher(6 shael =p) And use some crafted knockback gloves to pk the non tele barbs, necs, Charged strike zons, and ocassionaly(If i can hit them) smiters^_^@

Forcefeedback

30-04-2004, 13:23

I'm not sure but I would think that kb gives a longer hit recovery, allowing you to catch up with your opponent. Plus its funny to smack big ol' barbs around like stick men. :D

LovelyGods

30-04-2004, 22:14

ok so what about FhR and FBR

it seems like i dont recover enough.

and i'm left standing around getting wailed on by zeal.

What are the NUMBERS???

LovelyGods

01-05-2004, 00:01

Ok here is another question i dont know the answer too..

Situation:

Me (fc druid) vs. a Zealot

When the zealot hits me the following happens,

1. I find it hard to recover from the hit FhR issue.

2. my block slows me down when i try to hit FbR issue

3. I die.

What are the tables for FhR or FbR or just some good numbers to aim for.

Bears are supposed to Pwn Zealots not the other way around.

__________________________________________________ ___________
ok ok i know im a moron,, but when i hit the button for the new reply, it said error timed out... so i figured it wasn't there.. Well guess it is....OOPS MY BAD.

KOL_Famine

01-05-2004, 12:56

I don't know about bears owning well built pals, it's more like 50:50 at best for the bear. The scenario is the zealot will have enough ar to consistently be hitting your ~ 5k defence. The bear will not have enough ar to even near consistently hit the paladins 30 K + defence. If the pal is assumed good hes going to be using something like an eth Cleaver + Highlords most likely which is almost constant deadly striking. We'll assume the bears hp is 5k, to take 1/12 of the bears life and put him into recovery it will take:

(5000/12) x 2 x 6 = 5000 physical damage.

I'm not exactly sure on average zeal damage ranges but I remember something like 2k - 7k as a figure. This shows 5000 damage to be below his average so theoretically more then half the time hes going to be pumping out enough damage to put you into recovery which is bad for the bear. Now taking into account deadly strike, just about every hit is going to be enough to put the bear into recovery when connected.

So we have a pal constantly hitting the bear, putting him into a really slow block animation or putting him into hit recovery. The pal is not hindered at all by the bears four frame attack speed because hes theoretically blocking the attacks without the attached animation. From my visual experience my bear only has a chance to hit the pal when hes not placed into hit recovery which is not often. Dueling public pals with little knowledge about fireclaws it's almost an expected 1 hit kill which is quite feasable for the bear. Problems arise when you face smart people that get enough fire resist to take 2 -3 hits. It is very hard to place 2 - 3 hits on a very well built pal from my experience, although I play on dialup with 500 - 600 ping which is a factor I think ? i'm not sure.

For fhr issues I tried 152 bp but I decided it wasn't worth it so I went to 86bp which I find is the happy medium. I got their with blood fists + Shael Jahlas + 12 fhr on one of my shape charms so I didn't have to lose 20 life/ar sc's trying to get fhr on charms. The break point below which is the bare minimum i'd recommend is ~ 52 from memory, but 55 will definately cover it. Apparently a shael in Ss will put you to a faster frame block rate but won't be an option for you with your - 15 % req Ss. This is based from my experience with my fc druid, we'd be much better off if coldarmy would put his 2 cents in though, but I hope this helps anyway :p

LovelyGods

02-05-2004, 07:42

yea i also found this.

when attackign a zelaot run around a little.. so when the pala stops for a swing u turn a attack.

usualy they dead before u count to 5.

also i have this for Fhr now... Fist / Jalas(shael)/ Imp shanks (20%) and some charms which is 110 or something..

The Fbr is dumb cuz all that does is block lock you.(found after testing)

But now i got 21k ar with no enchant. 29k with enchant or maybe higher now.
and 4.898k life after transformation and oak. (keep in mind i dont have many charms with life) and i got 9.2k damage with Fc. at lvl 83.

from others telling me, i think i have very good life for a druid. at my lvl. but not sure...

so if this fc druid dont turn out like i wanted it to... i might make a Rabies druid lol....

but so far its ok. i just wish Fc pwned zelaots a little more..

i might just have to make a Zealot again. or maybe there is somthing im missing from the build.

cuz i've seen some Fc druid completly Own zealots.

LovelyGods

04-05-2004, 22:09

New Update to the Druid. For those who still care about it...

lvl 84

With Transformation / CTA / and Oak

9.8-10k Damage

5.5k life (with only 3 gc that have life/ and very few sc with life Estimate with all life gc / sc i would have 6k+ life in a few lvls. )

110 FhR or 100

22k ar no Enchant

29k ar With Enchant(i think its higher now not sure, maybe like 31k)

almost max resist (just need a few more charms)
Fr=45
Cr=35
Lr=65
Pr=50

Status : Excellent

i still have base strength of 15 btw.. For those non believers.

Still got work to do but over all its good.

What u think??

KOL_Famine

05-05-2004, 04:10

Only problem is if people start getting resists any maybe a dwarf that damage is going to dissappear so fast, leaving you a 5k hp punching bag. ooking at coldarmies gear he had arachnid mesh which i'm pretty sure had slow ? Might be a sneaky option for me to look into for pubby :)

LovelyGods

06-05-2004, 20:48

has anyone tested knockback? and Does it work for a Fc Druid?

if so a pair of Kb glvoes might be GooD

KOL_Famine

07-05-2004, 06:59

Maybe clegs for bm pubbies, kb and slow :P

Kirby Hunter

07-05-2004, 08:48

Maybe clegs for bm pubbies, kb and slow :P
Knockback is good against WW barbs(and alot of melee in general)
I quit diablo, so i cant say much more ..but^_ ^
WHen i did use knockback, i won against "most" barbs
except those Crazy Def/Eth stone barbs...thats just sick T_ t

Crogon

07-05-2004, 20:40

back to the pally question, ditch the shield, and use a 3 or 4 frame 2 hander. as long as your damage/leech is keeping up with them, you're superior speed will pwn them. :)