Dire Wolves vs. Grizzly Bear

[cyrxi]

Now, I know most people insist a summoning druid sucks (and it probably does), but I'm going to insist on making one anyway. So my question is what is going to take down enemies faster, 3 dire wolves, or the grizzly? Mind you I'm willing to max them both and will be using heart of the wolverine.

Also, any suggestions as to what I should be doing while my summon(s)/hireling are doing their work? Is it better for me to go elemental with the rest of my points are shape-shifting?

[cyrxi]

Oh hell, I might as well come right out and state what I'm going to attempt here. I'm attempting an MF druid!

I figured I'd use dire wolves or grizzly coupled with heart of the wolverine to deal as much physical damage as possible without needing to get into Melee. I'd then perhpas use volcano to lay down some fire damage, since most bosses are fairly stationary.

I'll use solar creeper to keep up my mana, and as for stats, enough str just to wield my gear, no dex, enough energy to keep me casting, and the rest in vitality to try to keep me alive.

I was just wondering if I'd be better off with using the bears or the wolves. I was thinking wolves because between the three of them they might (?) do almost as much as the bear and there would be more of them to keep the enemies off of me.

Also, any suggestions for a hireling? Preferably one that has a chance of doing some damage so I can equip him with MF gear as well.

[mooseontheloose]

I'm actually writing a guide for this as we speak :)

You'll need to build both up anyway as they are Synergies, not adding damage but adding life. I forget what level I had my Bear at, but I know it was fairly high as +skills are pretty important to the build, and he turned out pretty good. You will have problems with Immune to Physical but if you wanted you could always add an element like you mentioned. Either way, if you're planning on running the Pits you'll need to use Wolves. The Bear just can't handle a mass group. He doesn't die, he just can't attack fast enough to make him useful. However if you're boss running, use the Bear! Add a Might Merc in there and find a Weapon with Amp Damage charges and Meph will fall in seconds. Even without the Amp Damage my Bear totally rapes Meph, but since you'd be MF you'd have lower +skills so the Amp Damage would be great.

Wolverine may also be a good idea for you as Wolverine and Might would be awesome. At around level 40 the Bear has 7k life so life isn't a big deal but I tested using Oak Sage. My Bear was a massive tank and even without the Merc he was decent but with that Might Aura he was devastating!

Any more questions let me know :) This guide will be out pretty soon.

[Forcefeedback]

Suck? Ask Lifepincher for his grizzly stats... or better yet, do a search and find out for you're self. You'll be amazed...

I will have to congratulate on you're skill choise. :D (Mine looks quite same if HoW is replaced with Oak)

+skills add to summon synergies so they are really important. Enigma etc. that have both mf and skills are excellent for this kind of build but for some slots you have to choose either killing speed(+skills) or mf%.

If you want to feel usefull, slap a Silence bow on him and do some damage for you're self(Witchwildstrings amp is nice also).

I am at loss as to why you would use a solar creeper? I thought volcano and such are pretty cheap manawise...

I agree with moose that Grizzly is the way to go for single bosses(unless you need more distractions).

[mooseontheloose]

Oh and BTW, because of +skills you will have a decent level Raven. Make sure to summon the max, they're always nice to have around when your Bear is cleaning house :)

[cyrxi]

Okay, so go with my original plan, except scrap the solar creeper - use carrion vine instead to help keep me alive?

I hadn't even thought about adding a merc with might to add even MORE damage, excellent idea.

So max HoW, Dire Wolf, Grizzly and hire a might merc - my minions will handle most of the physical damage. But as far as what my druid should actually be doing (besides trying to avoid getting hit) - which elemental skill would you recommend, or would you equip him with the bow as mentioned - or both? (though equiping him with a bow means I'd have to dump more points into dex)

[mooseontheloose]

Vines are useless. Make sure to max all Wolves as they all add life to Grizzly. I didn't do elemental in my build, so can't help you there.

[cyrxi]

You think I'll need any points in spirit wolves? HoW will take care of AR and maxing dire wolves will take care of life (making defense not as important), so i wasn't planning on putting more than 1 in it.

[junglejim]

I put a few points into Spirit (like 5-10) while I was waiting to points into Dire.

So far (Character lvl ~53 & Act IV NM), I haven't had any AR problems.

I've just finished pumping both Dire & Bear. Now I'm going to dump points into Rabies so I have some non-physical damage too. I'll have to get my Plague Bearer sword off of my mule too.

So far I've used a Goldarch with Witchwild String on switch for the rare PIs I've encountered. Hell will be a different story entirely :( .

How much do Carrion Winds go for these days?

[electricblue]

dire wovles for diablo, grizly for baal
vines do not suck

[noogabooga]

I have a pure druid summoner and depend on my summons & merc to do the damage. I basically max HoW, Grizzly, Dire Wolves, & Sipirt Wolves and put 1 point in each of raven & carrion vine. A combination of high-level summons with HoW and a might merc gives my summons great damage. I do prefer dire wolves to grizzly bear in Hell tho b/c they move & attack faster and act as mutiple meat shields, plus their total damage matches that of the grizzly's. They last quite a bit even in 8-player games. Against certain act bosses I would use the grizzly.

My druid char doesnt do any noticeable damage at all but has been geared as a tank. He has max block and invested about 10 skill points into lycanthropy and tanks the enemy in wearbear form. He also has max resists and fire/cold/lit absorb to boot & max 50%dr. I just stand right amongst the enemy mobs while managing my summons.

[Crogon]

interesting build noogabooga.

only advise i could add here would be to stick with the bow. for decent ele damage yer gonna hafta spend 40 points one way or the other, and i don't think you're build can afford that.

go with max mf gear with the exception of some specific summons gear, perhaps a +3 summons / mf ammy, if you can find one a +skills pelt or circlet with mf, and get enough +summons gc's to keep yer critters trucking. other than that, be a 'glass-zon' and just DON't get hit, lol.
o yeh!! GET knockback. langer has it built in, or you can craft up some gloves with knockback on it.

lastly, if moose if currently writing a guide on this, it may be worth it to wait and read it to get some more ideas. :)

[Frezzist]

Am I the only Hunter druid who not only maxed spirit wolves but uses them very often? Those "little" wolves attack so much quicker than the dire wolves that they easily outmatch them, especially when combined with a might merc and and HoW. In most situations. I know, throw in some gloams and no chance for the little guys. But even against some champion and boss packs, spirit wolves are my preferred choice. I have to continuosly recast them sometimes but it's not like I need the mana for other skills.

1 target or fanat/might enchantment: Grizzly (of course)
Strong elemetal damage: Grizz or Dire (depends how quickly the dire fall)
All other times: spirit wolves

If you have all three maxed, why not try them all out?

Am I the only one whose dire wolves just stand still sometimes?

[NomadOfTheHills]

Am I the only one whose dire wolves just stand still sometimes?



Ah, so my wolves are not the only ones with a short attention span :)

[Crogon]

if dire wolves have corpses to cmomp on, they will hang back for a bit. sometimes you need to run off in sideways about a half a screen to distract them into moving their butts. :)

people are still playing with summons in 1.10, but you are the first to tout spirit wolves, thats interesting that they can actually be useful now. :)

[cyrxi]

Yeah, I've never heard of Spirit wolves being useful... Their damage is so low that I wouldn't expect them to be able to kill anything, even with all 5 of them. I wouldn't even use Dire Wolves much except they get a damage boost after chomping on some corpses - I guess I'm just into the "do as much damage as quick as possible" philosphy.

But yes, my dire wolves often stand idly as well, especially in places with low maneuverability (such as the Arcane Sanc).

If the Spirit wolves are really as good as you say, I might have to go complete summoning and invest points into maxing them out... I'd really rather not though unless the AR is absolutely necessary in Hell?

My last question would be: how do you deal with physical immunes? I was thinking of using an elemental spell, but A) I have been told the damage isn't enough unless you have 40 or so points to spend and B) Most of the skills are half physical damage anyway.

[Warlin]

My last question would be: how do you deal with physical immunes? I was thinking of using an elemental spell, but A) I have been told the damage isn't enough unless you have 40 or so points to spend and B) Most of the skills are half physical damage anyway.
Hi. I dusted my old .09 hunter and was quite pleasantly surprised my bear did a whole lot more dmg than before... a whole 1.6k more dmg. :) Anyway, I use kuko on the switch and it can take out PI's at a decent rate. 40 points is a lot to sink in just for an elemental skill. I figure if I use elementals, I might as well build an elementalists, so that's why i use a bow instead of skills.

[LifePincher]

Who said they use Spirit Wolves ? (Bonks ya' on the head)

Not enough Damage , there is no way you can take Spirit Wolves into Hell & even make a dent in the monsters . Perhaps Act 1 Hell but they will still be picked off too quickly . Crank up Spirit Wolf skill only for lower acts & the AR/Def they give to both Dire & Griz .


Dire Wolves are great all around attackers that deal with the larger monster crowds . They're great for Pit runs , etc.

To see Grizzly at his best Dmg potential , you need to boost him to lvl 40-48 . Only then will the monsters start running away instead of trying to attack you .
Yes , some monsters will actually run away when you see them . (no joke)


LP

[Frezzist]

As I said, it's the combination of the number of attacks with the number of wolves and not their damage that makes me choose spirit wolves over dire or Grizz most of the time. Yes, they fall easily to fanat or might boss packs but they shine the rest of the time. BTW in act 4 and 5 hell. Grizz, yeah.

If few max spirit wolves, how do you know how they perform in Hell? I did a 20/20/20 build with intentions to use Dire and occasional Griz but there was never a time for me when the DW were better than the Griz or SW.


Physical immunes: Witchwild string and a lot of patience. Unfortunately.
Try a Reaper's toll on a might merc if you're ladder. And there's an amp damage throwing weapon but I don't remember the name.
Or find a rare weapon with 5% amp.

Or stretch out your skills points by building an elemental ability.

[LifePincher]

As I said, it's the combination of the number of attacks with the number of wolves and not their damage that makes me choose spirit wolves over dire or Grizz most of the time. Yes, they fall easily to fanat or might boss packs but they shine the rest of the time. BTW in act 4 and 5 hell. Grizz, yeah.

If few max spirit wolves, how do you know how they perform in Hell? I did a 20/20/20 build with intentions to use Dire and occasional Griz but there was never a time for me when the DW were better than the Griz or SW.

Well my current build consists of the stats below , so I know how all these Summons perform & how to use them. Spirit Wolves are the bottom of the barrel in terms of Dmg. & Longevity in fighting . As I said , the only good use for them is the bonus they provide. Dire wolves outperform Spirit Wolves 2 to 1 easy & then some ! If you want to test this , I will cast my 3 Dire wolves & you cast 5 , 10 , 15 , 20 , 25 , 30 Spirit wolves ............... None of my Dire Wolves will die :worship:

HoW - 45
Spirit W. - 45
Dire W. - 45
Grizzly - 48

[kurupt439]

Just curious LifePincer, how much dmg does a lvl 48 grizz do?.. I was pleased with the 3 or 4k from lvl 36 or so, so I think 48 would be ridiculous.

[LifePincher]

Just curious LifePincer, how much dmg does a lvl 48 grizz do?.. I was pleased with the 3 or 4k from lvl 36 or so, so I think 48 would be ridiculous.

How - 45 / 328%ed
Grizzly - 48 / 495%ed
lvl 97 Might Merc - 25Might / 280%ed (capped at 20 in 1.10 / & add 5 for +skill items)

Dmg without Merc = 9,020 - 9,267
Dmg with Merc = 12,089 - 12,420

Not bad eh ? (calculations are correct btw)

LP

[ahcw]

How - 45 / 328%ed
Grizzly - 48 / 495%ed
lvl 97 Might Merc - 25Might / 280%ed (capped at 20 in 1.10 / & add 5 for +skill items)

Dmg without Merc = 9,020 - 9,267
Dmg with Merc = 12,089 - 12,420

Not bad eh ? (calculations are correct btw)
LP

OMG, *faints*

[cyrxi]

Impressive indeed.

Now a question for those of you for have not maxed spirit wolf: Can your summons hit with regularity in the later acts of Hell? Is the AR bonus from HoW enough or am I going to need to sink more than the 5 current points I have in SW?

[electricblue]

I would max poison creeper insted of spirit wolves if I had to choose