Eth Zoded Death Cleaver vs Eth BoTD as single handed WW Weapon in PvP

[spencert]

I've decided to switch from caster to melee. My choice is of course a barb. :lol:

I'm still deciding between a Eth Botd and Eth Zoded Death Cleaver. I sure comparision has been done before on both. However, I would to hear from people who has use both in as a single handed WW weapon with storm shield in PvP.

Eth Death Cleaver:
One-Hand Damage: (79-91) To (234-269) (156.5-180 Avg)
Required Level: 70
Required Strength: 138
Required Dexterity: 59
Durability: 26
Weapon Speed: [0]
+230-280% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+40% Increased Attack Speed
-33% Target Defense
66% Deadly Strike
+6-9 Life After Each Kill (varies)

Eth BotD
50% Chance To Cast Level 20 Poison Nova When You Kill An Enemy
Indestructible
+60% Increased Attack Speed
+350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+200% Damage To Undead
-25% Target Defense
+50 To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
12-15% Life Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Prevent Monster Heal
+30 To All Attributes
+1 To Light Radius
Requirements -20%

1) Although dmg is higher from Botd, will other mod such as "-33% Target Defense" and "66% Deadly Strike" compensate for it?

2) Which one is a better PvP weapon?

3) Is dual welding Eth Death Cleaver and Doom a good choice if BM is not an issue?

Appreciate your valuable feedback.

[Asheron]

In my opinion Eth Death Cleaver is the best WW weapon around,the 66%DS combined with Highlords and Gores will grant you over 100% DS which is just awesome. O_O;;

I didn't get the chance to try out a Death cleaver so I can't really comment on that,but I can imagine it blowing BotD out of the water. :evil:


That wouldn't be a bad choice,although I prefer using Beast instead of Doom for its Dmg and AR bonus,which really niceeeeeee. ^.^

Oh and only go shield-less against casters,unless your build is a 2-handed one.

[spencert]

Well, I have a 274 ed eth death cleaver and will very likely zod it. Just need confirmation from you guys that it is compete against the botd wielders out there.

For casters, yes... I plan to dual-wield. Another question I have for vita WW barbs. When BvB, you will not stick to your archon enigma. Choices are well, 1)eth carparce 2)eth stone 3)eth valor. So you're gonna have to invest in strength anyway right? 230 str for a eth carpace just seem too damn much str to invest.... life won't make 5k in this case right?

[Asheron]

Yea,the strength thing is a hassle,which is why I don't like the Carapace anyway (you could also Hel it but meh). If you plan on putting 230 base strength you can scratch 5k life right away aswell... =/

I'm sticking to enigma,be it BvB or all-around dueling,since I don't care too much about the def boost valor or stone give ,even more because enigmas stats blow them out of the water easily.

In the end it comes down to the stats of enigma against the def of the other choices,where it's up to you to choose the one you like.

[spencert]

So how u fare against BvB barbs that uses high def armors?

[Asheron]

I haven't really paid attention as to wether or not they use high def armors,but I do decent against other melee characters,so yea. ^.^

[spencert]

In my opinion Eth Death Cleaver is the best WW weapon around,the 66%DS combined with Highlords and Gores will grant you over 100% DS which is just awesome. O_O;;

I didn't get the chance to try out a Death cleaver so I can't really comment on that,but I can imagine it blowing BotD out of the water. :evil:


That wouldn't be a bad choice,although I prefer using Beast instead of Doom for its Dmg and AR bonus,which really niceeeeeee. ^.^

Oh and only go shield-less against casters,unless your build is a 2-handed one.

Just realized you mentioned highlords... but without angelic set... ar is gonna be a problem rite?

[Asheron]

That depends on your other gear (I use a ravenfrost for instance,which grants nie AR) and charms mainly.
Personally I find angelics ring/ammy horrible and almost never use it,so it's up to you.. o.O;

In any case I'd use highlords together with a Death cleaver because that's where its strength lies..the Deadly strike. :evil:

[mstrnicegui]

As has been stated before, DS is capped at 95%, so you don't get DS triggered every hit, but damn near every hit. Assuming you go base def, ar will be a problem. You either wear the angelic rings/ammy, as you mentioned, or you get an inventory full of fine sc of vita to counter it... hell you could do both. Without highlord's ammy, you still have a respectable 81% DS.

[spencert]

hmm.. ok, well i may try it out later when my barb is done... thx. :thumbsup:

[Asheron]

Let us know how he 's doing once he is made. =]

[jumbo_SHRIMP]

136-402<---eth cleaver
180-530<---eth botd
(both in zerker)

however, the 66% is so much more damage(it multiplies after str bonus and +max damage charms)
but assuming your naked(you spent all your items on a deathcleaver and a zod)
136*1.66 = 225
402*1.66 = 667

so death cleaver does 225-667(446 avg)
and botd eth zerk does 180-530(355 avg)
granted you can definately make up for the deadly in other gear, but that would require some nasty sacrifices to keep up

phelix

[Taraukzul]

You guys act as if the BOTD will have no DS at all....with gores/highlords he'll still have roughly 50% which is more than respectable. Then again there's the increase to stats and the -requirements on it for tweaking purposes.

If you're going to calculate average dmg with DS then you might try not being biased :-p Highlords and Gores is hardly nasty..

[ReVolution]

Highlords/dual perf ravens/gores is much much much better than angelics for anything, even BVB.

[jumbo_SHRIMP]

100% deadly with deathcleaver + highlords, then having say, ik boots would and dual perf ravens would be even better no?

phelix

[mstrnicegui]

I was under the impression that deadly strike was the same as critical strike and it always did double dmg, when triggered. So, having 66% deadly strike meant that it had a 66% chance to trigger it.
Reference 1 (http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=169237)
Reference 2 (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic.shtml)

This directly contradicts what Jumbo_SHRIMP stated
however, the 66% is so much more damage(it multiplies after str bonus and +max damage charms)
but assuming your naked(you spent all your items on a deathcleaver and a zod)
136*1.66 = 225
402*1.66 = 667

Apparently also, the gurus on these forums in other posts have contradicted a comment I made about Deadly Strike having a 95% cap. It seems as though CB, DS, CS, OW do not have any upper limit.

EDIT: Added links to info on CB, DS, CS, OW.

[Fearoth]

Highlords/dual perf ravens/gores is much much much better than angelics for anything, even BVB.

Id like to see u hit anything in bvb with your leet 12k AR :), A barb with only 22% deadly from masteries but 31-35k WW AR and 30-35k def will mop up the floor with u.

[kuza]

don't you need to shael a Death cleaver to reach the last breakpoint?

[mstrnicegui]

as taken from a post by hal here (http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=164968), -10 and -35 are the ww breakpoints for 1 hand weapons. since the death cleaver is [0] base and 40% ias, it hits the last breakpoint.

[spencert]

Let us know how he 's doing once he is made. =]

Just got him to lvl 25 last nite... hope to get him to lvl 8x by this weekend. Got most of the gear I need. It's gonna take up some time and probably every last drop of my resources to buy all those darn 3/ar/18+ scs on ladder. All my wealth into this one char... damn, it's expensive.

Will try both highlord / angelic gear and update u guys further. {^_^}

Oh.... looks like Eth Death Cleaver leading the poll... ya. :clap:


don't you need to shael a Death cleaver to reach the last breakpoint?
Shael a Eth Death Cleaver? Where u gonna to place the zod? :evil:
Hehe.. think mstrnicegui answered ur question.

[spencert]

Actually, I would really like to hear some comments from eth death cleaver/WW barb users out there... as in how is it compare with Botd and wat gear u used, ie angelic set or raven/highlord?

[ReVolution]

Id like to see u hit anything in bvb with your leet 12k AR :), A barb with only 22% deadly from masteries but 31-35k WW AR and 30-35k def will mop up the floor with u.
After enchant, my AR is 16350, and only the absolute best bvb'ers can beat me..and I only have shout maxed with one in iron skin (not a bvb build).

I'll back this up anytime.. *XE-ReVolution on USWest NL SC.

Also, if it means anything..death cleaver as primary wep requires 60 extra stats used for max block/equipping gear.

It would be really really sweet dual weilded with BOTD also @_@

[Oblivio]

Just as a side note, I was reading this and if I were to make a barb like the one mentioned with an eth death cleaver, I would have trouble not ohm'ing or lo'ing it and then cleaning it out before it broke and zod'ing it then, so for a period it would be the top dog, at only the extra price of...well an ohm or lo rune( plus a hel/tp). Just a suggestion.

[Herald of Doom]

Actually, I would really like to hear some comments from eth death cleaver/WW barb users out there... as in how is it compare with Botd and wat gear u used, ie angelic set or raven/highlord?
Sasha had an eth death cleaver, he was doing BvB but he didn't zod it yet, don't know why. He defeated a *lot* of BotD barbs. I don't know what his other gear is. To bad he didn't pay attention and his death cleaver broke...

HoD

[dumbpig]

bvb is all luck

[Taz]

Assuming the most common setup for bvb nowadays: arreat, ss, stone, gores, verdungo, steelrends, 22%CS from mastery and:

#1 280%ED, eth, zod-ed death cleaver: 269 medium dmg
#2 415% botd ba: 365 medium dmg,

the total chance for ds/cs would be:
#1 22+(66+15)*(100-22)/100=85%
#2 22+15*(100-22)/100=33%,

and the equivalent medim dmg:
#1 269*1.85=497
#2 365*1.33=485

Getting more DS from other gear (Highlord`s, Guillaume`s face along with the gores) would put BOTD in advantage but that`s another issue since involves a lot of other factors.

[F1R3STR1D3R]

Chance to Hit formula : 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
Chance of Double Damage formula : CS + (DS/100)*(100-CS)

Chance of Double Damage using Gore Riders and Highlords:

Ethereal 280% Death Cleaver
Double Damage: 22+(101/100)*(100-22) = 100%
136*2 = 272
404*2 = 808
540 Avg. Damage

Ethereal 415% BotD Zerker Axe
Double Damage: 22+(50/100)*(100-22) = 61%
185*1.61 = 297
548*1.61 = 882
589 Avg. Damage

BotD Zerker Axe has better Avg. Damage by 49.

Chance to Hit, assuming 10,000 Attack Rating,
20,000 Defense, 75% Block and both players at level 99:

-%Target Defense is reduced by 1/2 in PvP

Ethereal 280% Death Cleaver (-16.5% Target Defense)
100*10000/(10000+[20000*0.835])*2*99/(99+99) = ~37*0.25 = ~9%

Ethereal 415% BotD Zerker Axe (-12.5% Target Defense)
100*10000/(10000+[20000*0.875])*2*99/(99+99) = ~36*0.25 = 9%

There is not much variance in the chance to hit.

I choose BotD because it has higher avg. damage after DS, about same chance to hit as Death Cleaver
lower stat requirements, more versatile (PMH, +15%LL, +7%ML, +200% Damage to UD), +30 more Stats,
+50 Attack Rating, and 20% more IAS.

[evild2player]

umm..i think i remember this wrong but there was a post about ds and ww and i think they said ds doesnt work with ww or i just dont remember correctly O_o

[Halciet]

DS does work with whirlwind. That's just a lame rumor that's been going around for awhile now.

-Hal

[StrikexForce]

botd is superior to death cleaver. kthx

[Asheron]

botd is superior to death cleaver. kthx

That conviced me,especially your detailed arguments and all the examples you used to show us that BotD > Cleaver. :thumbsup:

[Taz]

Note: i forgot to mention among the assumed setup angelic`s amy/ring/ring.

[Snarlin Stef]

AR is never a problem... just prebuff with a demon limb (level 23 enchant) and you are in business for like 10 minutes b4 you need to re-enchant.

thnx
stef

[Zavior]

Using demon limb as prebuff is cheap :D

[Halciet]

Using demon limb as prebuff is cheap :D

So are enigma, Doom, and exile, so I don't see the problem with it ;)

-Hal

[dkay]

since botd gives 30 to strength doesnt that raise the dmg on botd even more? i thought 1 point into stnregth = 1% ed so i guess that would make botd 445%ed O_o
i chose eth deaths cuz its just so much cooler.....

[spencert]

botd is superior to death cleaver. kthx

Have u used both? Where is the detailed argument that Asheron was referring to? Thx.