the throwing barb (your opinions)

[fallen angel of satan]

Hi, I have decided to write a throwing barb guided and I want to know specific improvements or changes that I should make to it, please bear in mind this is a first version.

In each section I will say what is good for pvp and what is good for pvm

before I start I would like to say that ias is not a key point here, I think that the axes are fast enough for bvb and double throw speed is v nice as it is.

1) stats
2) skills
3) items
4) sockets
5) merc
6) general tips


1) This is a hard part to write about, for the soul reason that some people cant afford the higher lvl items and so need more (or less) str

sit down before you make your char and decide what they are going to use at about lvl 85(this lvl is easy to get to even with a naked char)(just use public baal runs) and decide how much str they need and how much they get from the equipment

strength: the minimum, I have 135 base str, (I have it so high becuse I dont use enigma, and since BoTD cant be put in throwing weapons I dont get the bonus from that either, I also use steelrend and so needed the 185 str for that

Dexterity: If you are going touse a shield get enough dex for max block, If no shield then I would probably advise around 150 dex

Vitality: Everything else

Energy: Base, even if you dont use any ml, with bo on you still never need to use a mana pot, so putting points in energy is completely pointless like almost all melee builds

2) Here comes a few routes you can take

pvm, barb v all other classes or bvb

pvm I advise the following

max double throw: this only gives ar bonus, but without it you will probably find yourself struggleing to hit hell minions abit too much(I prefer over 85% chance to hit at all times, helps for ll and so helps to keep you alive)

max double swing: this is wear you get your ed (and again some obvious statments here, this helps you kill faster and helps you ll and therefore your capacity at staying alive)

max battle orders: we all know why to get this one (for the new people it gives you insane life)

1 point in Battale command: that 1 point gives you +1 skills everywhere else so definately worth that 1 point.

max throwing mastary: increases damage and ar, a definate must have.

these are should what you should go for 1st. You will be about lvl 71(assuming you have done all skill quests in norm/nm/hell)(this includeds pre req)

Now the rest is dependant on your build.

If you need elemental attack get 1 point in beserk

If you ened resists natural resists ( a few points, I would say up to about lvl 11, any more and the bonuses diminish badly, about lvl 13 with skills)

a couple of points in increased speed would be useful( but again not many points because of the diminishing returns)

Frenzy is a good 1 pointer for the increased run walk speed and ias

with frenzy and beserk also put one point in the respective mastary so as to increase the chars ar high enough to be able to hit things

wirlwind is goo to get out of clumps of monsters you dont like

battle cry is a good 1 pointer, useful for dealing with particularly hard clumps of mosters, or if your ar is a bit too low

grim ward is good if you need a safe haven to throw axes from

taunt is good to tempt enemies away from your mates

If you dont need any of these then you can always put points in shout, this helps bo length and you increses your def hugely, although for pvm I do not think def is the key

Barb v all other classes

this build is very similar, although I do advise using your points above lvl 71 in things like shout which will help fighting barbs or other melee chars

pure bvb

for bvb I personally think you need to scrap double throw

spend the points in iron skin and shout instead and your left over points in the natural resists or increased speed

the rest of the points are your choice you could put a few points in double throw and double wing so that you are better at pvm as well or if you like the look of a different skill, then go ahead

3)items

I have chosen not to mention godly rares for the soul reason that alot of the items on this list can be replaced by a godly rare of some sort, but they are very rare, or duped, you will know if you have a good rare, lol

this is the hard section, because we cant all afford enigma or eth arky, I will do my best to try and find relatively poor items as well

Helm: There are a few choices here

pvp and pvm personal favorite Arreats face This helm has ll str dex skills fhr %ar bonus and quite nice defense, personally I think that there is no equal

Gaze this helm has dr ll ml v nice helm if you cant get hold of arreats

shako personally I think you are better off with gaze, + skills arnt the key point of this build, neither is mf and +2 to all atributes aint that amazing. Although it does give nice life

CoA a very nice helm, but expensive, if you can get this then you can get arreats and I personally think arreats is better

andariels visage same aplies as with CoA

for a cheaper version you could probably use crown of thieves, life, dex and v nice ll

Amulet

pvm atma's amulet, the amp damage is very nice

pvp angelic (with the rings the ar bonus is amazing) and some life

highlords very nice ias and deadly strike, but personally id rather have amp damage than deadly strike, thats whay atma's

maras amulet has resists skills and 5 to all atributes, it is nice but I dont think the right amulet for this build

for a cheaper amulet I would go for cats eye run/walk ias dex and def good amulet

Armor

pvm coh skills ll str resists abit of dr and some mf, v nice pvm armor

bvb eth arky vnice defense lots of vit and some fhr, not much more you need really

barb v all enigma, tele is just too useful (unless of course you are clan dueling when it is bm most of the time)

Glads bane nice def cannot be frozen and fhr nice armor and cheap

Templars might In its eth version can have v v v nice defense but needs insane str

tyrial's might faster run walk, str, resists, cannot be frozen and no str req, nice armor, but v v v v expensive and personally id rather go for things like eth arky hehe

stone armor you can get insane defense here and if you are willing to remake it all the time an eth version can have godly defense for bvb when they are low durabilty trade it on or use it on a merc

cheap armor shaft dr and life, v nice armor, underestimated alot atm

weapons

this is not a java barb so we are only really looking at axes

gimmershred for pvp the ele damage is so very useful

lacerator for pvp fast amp damage and open wounds

eth gimmershred is bad becsue it does not replenish quantity, but if you are willing to wait for the lacerator to replenish every no and agaian, then eth versions are more than viable

If you are wanting to be able to kill then there arent really any more options. so if you are going for a cheap build then the highest damage things you can find probabaly your best bet is uped scalper

switch

2 echoing weapons for bo

shield(for bvb)

my choice storm, nice block, nice dr, nice resists, nice def, not much more you need from a shield, lol

whitsans guard is another viable option for its immense block

belt

all pvp verdungos dr and vit and not bad def this +storm gets you max dr

pvm razortail in clumps piecing attack is so very nice + you get some more damage always a good thing

tgods good for gloams or anoying trapsins etc, hehe + you get great str and vit

Nosferatu's Coil ias str and ll and slow target great belt, but bm in pvp

cheap option SoE dr and ll a nice cheap belt

Rings

pvm 1x raven frost cannot be from, dex and ar, good rings + some cold absorb which is always useful

pvm 1x duel leach ring with ar if you can get and if you can get resists then all the better

manald good for mana leach if you cant get a duel leach ring

high ll ring if you cant get duel leech again

pvp 2x agelic for bvb the ar bonus is insane 1x angelic 1x raven for bvall

BK ring is very nice, ll life and skills, but quite expensive

sojs useful for bo but I advise switching after you have used bo

cheap options ime not going to give something specific here because both raven frost and angelic are cheap already

boots

pvm and pvp gore riders the chances for insane damage with these beasts is immense, my fav boots of all time for melee chars lol

wts nice damage life and vitality and some mf, good if you cant get gore riders and have a spare pair

sandstorn trek nice str and vitality, but persoanlly i dont like these boots that much

ik boots not bad boots, life ar and nice faster run/walk, good in combo with gloves because you get ias bonus too.

cheap option waterwalk, great boots life and dex and some max fire resist


gloves

pvm dracul's life tap is a godsend, but I would use highlords amulet in combo with these instead of atma's because only one curse can be active at once. and you get str ll and open wounds, on the whole godly pvm gloves

pvp steelrend str ed and crushing blow, ver nice gloves

ik gloves in combo with boots for ias + str and other decent bonuses

souldrainer ml, ll, -50 monster def per hit and chance to cast weaken, nice gloves

cheap option is proabably ik gloves with or wothout the boots


charms 1x anni 3/xx/15-20sc for the rest

cheaper options are warcry or combat skiller and life charms

if your resists arent great you can get some resist charms too

4) sockets

this part has to complement your char

if you are pvm or bvall then resists are important so um runes are v nice

if your resists are max then go for ed/ias jewels

and of course if the item is eth then stick zod in

that is about all you need to know really, btw if you didnt know you cant stick sockets in throwing weapons

5) merc

pvm act2 might merc nm offensive this is a godsend for your damage

pvp act1 fire rogue

as for equip

act2 merc gaze(um) shaft(um) bonehew(amn, hel)
with a perf gaze they hot max dr and have some ll the hel rune is because bonehew needs a large amount of str, when their base str is high enough replace with amn
the um runes are becsue mercs seem to struggle to max resists in hell
ll is godly for a pvm merc

if you cant get this stuff then any high damage weapon loads of ll on helm and something like lionheart armor

act1 rogue

wf(ohm)
shaft(um)
gaze(um)

shaft and gaze same reason as for pvm and wf becsue this is the best bow in the game hehe

cheaper options same as for act2 merc except high damage bow, not spear

5) general tips

you are a barb therefore you can tank, dont act as if you are playing your amazon and always run away, drag the monster off the weaker (faster killing) chars like sorcs onto yourself(taint is good for this)

axes have a limited range so dont stand too far away

keep your bo active

in bvb you can dodge out of the way of their ww's and throw axes at them before they can stop. Or if they are weak then just tank them, lol

other than this it is all down to personal experiance, so just get out there and try this char and good luck.

Now I want your opinions on this, go ahead, abuse it, but please keep it as constructive critasism rather than open abuse

Thanks

[Superhal]

frenzy/zerk: one point in the mastery would help a lot here to hit. i wasn't able to charge up frenzy at all in .09 with my thrower with only 1pt in frenzy.

javs: you should try some. cruel winged harpoons get close to 300 throw damage, which then goes through the multipliers. fast and long range too.

blood/safety recipies: can be used to craft blood throwing axes or safety javelins. the blood axes get inherent 35-60% ed, 1-4% LL. Safety javs don't get squat, but either way, they both benefit from the new rules for rares, so 400%+ ed is quite possible.

gloves: 20ias/kb crafted hitpower gloves. some even come with leech.

[fallen angel of satan]

superhal thnx for your tips, i wasnt clear enough when I said about not talking about rares, I will put crafted items into the same bracket. the main reason why I havent included them is because I really dont know much about them, Ime not entirely sure what mods can spawn and where. The soul reason for this is that I cannot actually afford truely godly rares and have never found one either :(:( so havent been able to compare them

So if someone wants to right a section on rares and/or crafted items ill instert it and put all credit to you for those sections

and as superhal has also kindly pointed out a flaw with some of the ar while using zerk and frenzy therefore I will insert the following into the skills section just underneath frenzy

When using frenzy and beserk ar can be a problem therefore 1 point in the respective mastary will help you hit at a decent rate

I will also include the following info in the weapons section

Wraith flight this weapon has nice damage but the base attack speed is too slow in my opinion

Gargoyles bite has too low damage in comparison to the axes although it does have replenish quantity soan eth version could be nice, although I would prefer an eth lacerator instead of an eth gargoyles bite

cruel winged harpoons have nice damage and decent base speed, although they lack some of the advantages of the axes, elemental damage and amp damage being the key points

thanx again for those points superhal, if anyone spots any more improvements please say.

And if anyone wants to write about godly rares then just write it, and if I like it ill add it

[boochie61]

frenzy/zerk: one point in the mastery would help a lot here to hit. i wasn't able to charge up frenzy at all in .09 with my thrower with only 1pt in frenzy.

javs: you should try some. cruel winged harpoons get close to 300 throw damage, which then goes through the multipliers. fast and long range too.

blood/safety recipies: can be used to craft blood throwing axes or safety javelins. the blood axes get inherent 35-60% ed, 1-4% LL. Safety javs don't get squat, but either way, they both benefit from the new rules for rares, so 400%+ ed is quite possible.

gloves: 20ias/kb crafted hitpower gloves. some even come with leech.
dex won't work. At 150 even with uber weapons you wont even be doing 2.5k. You'll have to revise that. Throw barbs can't have huge vit because they can't tank. Thats just all there is to that. Sure you can taunt them and make them run, but eventually you're going to have to kill them, and with only 2k damage you had better bring a lunch box. Dex is damage, and without 200+ you aren't doing damage. I get my own throwers close to 300. The ias statement is wrong. I wouldn't even take my barb out till he can make 60+ ias. Sure it looks fast without any ias improve, but trust me the survivability of your barb is a heck of a lot better when you can throw fast.
Safety javs do not inherently get good mods, but my 1.09 thrower had one fools safety jav with over 150% ed and the fools mod (really godly) and the other got duel leech, 220% and elemental damage making berserk less necessary. Hopefully, you mention the importance of getting the thrower as close to perfect resist as possible, since a double thrower has no shield with its inherent resists.
BVB, unless you are going to use enigma and no one else dueling will use it, you're going to have to use single throw and shield in upclose combat, but you can use double throw from a distance with javs, which have a range of over one screen you you can kill without being next to the combatant, then switch to shield when the other barb comes close again. Thats all I would suggest so far. GL on the guide

[banditto1969]

Fallen Angel if your on USEast Ladder give me a whisper because I just built a throwbarb/frenzy hybred and have several throw weapons.

My experience with what look like uber rares is they don't have the elemental dam like the uniques do.

[fallen angel of satan]

kk thnx all.

boochie61 2k damage where are you coming from. My barb does 3.5k damage at the moment with just over 150dex no double throw. As for not being able to tank. I can sit there almost all day nxt to baals minuions and if life tap on draculs kicks off then 1 or two hits and my life is max (all 5.5k of it) So you see that is why I said only 150 dex. O I have 85% chance to hit hell baal as well, and thats good enough for me. With a double throw barb I made with about 150 dex I do about 11k damage with might merc but he wasnt very good against other good barbs, so I stripped him.

good point on the javas though, altough I find just one quick doge gets you out of the way of ww and then they are locked in ww for that extra second where you can throw at them, so the range is 100% necacery for bvb, although would be good for casters.

O and one more thing about javas, yea the extra distance might be good but a good dueler will dodge them without a second thought. So you need to get quite close anyways.

Ime europe banditto :( looks like ill have to download myself jamella and do some trials.

Thnx for the responses.

boochie61 plz dont take offense by what I said Ime just saying why I chose what I did

[boochie61]

kk thnx all.

boochie61 2k damage where are you coming from. My barb does 3.5k damage at the moment with just over 150dex no double throw. As for not being able to tank. I can sit there almost all day nxt to baals minuions and if life tap on draculs kicks off then 1 or two hits and my life is max (all 5.5k of it) So you see that is why I said only 150 dex. O I have 85% chance to hit hell baal as well, and thats good enough for me. With a double throw barb I made with about 150 dex I do about 11k damage with might merc but he wasnt very good against other good barbs, so I stripped him.

good point on the javas though, altough I find just one quick doge gets you out of the way of ww and then they are locked in ww for that extra second where you can throw at them, so the range is 100% necacery for bvb, although would be good for casters.


O and one more thing about javas, yea the extra distance might be good but a good dueler will dodge them without a second thought. So you need to get quite close anyways.

Ime europe banditto :( looks like ill have to download myself jamella and do some trials.

Thnx for the responses.

boochie61 plz dont take offense by what I said Ime just saying why I chose what I did
Looks like an old dog can learn a new trick. I've just never tried building one that way. I've built a lot of throwers over the years, and just have fallen in love with the 8-12k ar I end up having (depending on the charms I have). I know many have said that a thrower can't solo well in various posts (not this one) but I have a barb in 1.10 that solos every single act, so maybe I just have gotten a little picky about the way my thrower is built, but I can see where you're coming from now. Good job.

[fallen angel of satan]

:) a complement hehe. Thanx boochie61

Although I am sure there are still plenty of flaws so ppl, plz speek up.

O and boochie, I have decided to recomend 150-200 dex instead of 150 because I have not much under 200 with equip and some people using equip without dex might have more problems than me

Other things I have noticed that I have missed out, I havent analized ed//ias armor and helms yet or crow caw armor. So the following will also be added

ed//ias armor This armor is good if you want more ias and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recomend it if your other areas are storng, ie good resists or good life etc.

I will say the same about the helm, except in the helm section of course

Also I will add the following about crow caw

Crow caw is decent cheap armor. It has dex ias fhr and open wounds. Altogether nice armor, and above all it is easy to come by.

Thanx for the tips so far, keep them coming

[boochie61]

:) a complement hehe. Thanx boochie61

Although I am sure there are still plenty of flaws so ppl, plz speek up.

O and boochie, I have decided to recomend 150-200 dex instead of 150 because I have not much under 200 with equip and some people using equip without dex might have more problems than me

Other things I have noticed that I have missed out, I havent analized ed//ias armor and helms yet or crow caw armor. So the following will also be added

ed//ias armor This armor is good if you want more ias and damage, for obvious reasons, but I only recomend it if your other areas are storng, ie good resists or good life etc.

I will say the same about the helm, except in the helm section of course

Also I will add the following about crow caw

Crow caw is decent cheap armor. It has dex ias fhr and open wounds. Altogether nice armor, and above all it is easy to come by.

Thanx for the tips so far, keep them coming

darn I'm stupid. Of course you were talking base dex, not enhanced dex. Duh me. Ok now it makes perfect sense. Ok you are dead on now. Now my recomendation for helm, if you can afford it is Andy's visage, my barb went to a new level with that helm on. Socketed with an ias (prefereably an ias/ed jewel) that thing makes a thrower very dangerous. It is the only helm I know that gives skills and allows you to make insane ias levels. Ok the fire thing is bad, but you can throw all your poison resist charms away now, and just need to over come the fire resist (I did it with infernostrides, one of the easiest items to get, and laying of hands). I still love Arreats, don't get me wrong, but the visage is so much better of a thrower helm. Now I know that you are going to be a machine gunner (throw + frenzy for those who don't build throwers, and man theyre fast) so ias isnt a concern for you above base and one or two items, but for me, who hates that build (I had one in 1.09), I'd rather just get a holy freeze merc and pick everything off from a distance pvm. I have to get every bit of ias I can (with warshrikes I can make 145).
Like I said gl on the guide.