poison nova or mages

[revilation]

i have a skellymancer with skellys and mastery. i'm using amp with them and a might merc. i have +3 to all skills and +11 to summoning from gear. i'm not sure if skelly mages are any good in 1.10 and am at a crossroads.

....do i go with maxed skelly mages and maxed corpse expload or do i go with poison nova and synergies?...

please give me a sugestion if you have experiance in mages or poison nova.

thanx

rev-

[TheKbob]

Mages.

With psn nova:

Look psn immune... crap

With mages:

look psn immune, oh well i got light, cold, and fire skeles to help!

~Kbob

[tremak]

Hooray! My question has been answered for me. Now at last I can use those skill points.
It is time yet again for a dance. :jig:

[HarbingersOfSkulls]

i have a skellymancer with skellys and mastery. i'm using amp with them and a might merc. i have +3 to all skills and +11 to summoning from gear. i'm not sure if skelly mages are any good in 1.10 and am at a crossroads.

....do i go with maxed skelly mages and maxed corpse expload or do i go with poison nova and synergies?...

please give me a sugestion if you have experiance in mages or poison nova.

thanx

rev-

If you can't max out all 3 poison skills...then go Mages. I like Mages for my Summoner.

HoS

[Ario]

If you can't max out all 3 poison skills...then go Mages. I like Mages for my Summoner.

HoS

Just something to add, it is relatively expensive to have a "powerful/very effective" poison nova, it would generally be easier and more cost effective to go with mages for pvm (IMO), unless you are able to afford the nicest gear.

[Mad Mantis]

People sticking up for Mages. I'm touched. :hanky:

[kaervek666]

When your running round open areas with monsters on all sides and your warriors have all run off leaving you alone to face everything else, its mages who stick with you :)

It does get mighty confusing with cursed skeleton boss packs though.

After a lot of thought (ie. what will kill DC) i decided to rebuild my necro without PN or mages, going after BS instead. it also improves my survivability. I get a handful of mages off leoric.

In any case i find max CE to be more useful than PN, and because your not trying to save points for its synergies you can be more generous with your curse allocation.

[StormriderXIII]

I built a summopoisoner to lvl 80 and i don't really use my poison nova in hell beacuse except for monsters with really low hp totals, it won't kill much.

Definately go with mages. Besides, mages are fun and laggy. I love a two minute lag spell followed by an everything else dies fast forward frame rate catch up :lol:.

Plus, as Kbob mentioned, they command four elements. Poison Nova commands only one, and not very well I might add.

[HarbingersOfSkulls]

I built a summopoisoner to lvl 80 and i don't really use my poison nova in hell beacuse except for monsters with really low hp totals, it won't kill much.

Definately go with mages. Besides, mages are fun and laggy. I love a two minute lag spell followed by an everything else dies fast forward frame rate catch up :lol:.

Plus, as Kbob mentioned, they command four elements. Poison Nova commands only one, and not very well I might add.

That depends on your gear...my Venomancer has done quite well for me...even in hell. The only problems are the lightning mosnters in act's 4 and 5...though DV helps with that.

HoS

[uncreativereally]

Before we all start talking about how bad *** a mage is lets look at the facts. Here is a fight between a fallen (act1 hell) and a lvl40 lightning mage (best of the mages to fight fallen) with lvl40 mastery in hell. (there are many factors not counted but this will give you a good idea of what would happen)

HP
mage: 443
fallen: 771-2261 (avg 1516)

Damage
mage: 59-615 (avg 337)
fallen: weakest attack 34-68 (avg 51)

The mage will kill the fallen in 4.498 hits but since you cant have half a hit that 5 hits. If the fallen got off 5 hit in the same time the mage got his 5 the fallen would do 255 damage. That is 57.562% of the mages life.

So one weak fallen (this isnt using the fallens bester attack) can take the best mage at lvl40 with lvl40 mastery to 42.438% of its life. Mages are really worthless if you look at it that way.

[CEG]

Before we all start talking about how bad *** a mage is lets look at the facts. Here is a fight between a fallen (act1 hell) and a lvl40 lightning mage (best of the mages to fight fallen) with lvl40 mastery in hell. (there are many factors not counted but this will give you a good idea of what would happen)

HP
mage: 443
fallen: 771-2261 (avg 1516)

Damage
mage: 59-615 (avg 337)
fallen: weakest attack 34-68 (avg 51)

The mage will kill the fallen in 4.498 hits but since you cant have half a hit that 5 hits. If the fallen got off 5 hit in the same time the mage got his 5 the fallen would do 255 damage. That is 57.562% of the mages life.

So one weak fallen (this isnt using the fallens bester attack) can take the best mage at lvl40 with lvl40 mastery to 42.438% of its life. Mages are really worthless if you look at it that way.

I do not doubt your numbers but you are not looking at this the right way. First of all no LoM will have 1 mage and of couse there will most of the time be more fallen or whatever monster. Now there are a few things every LoM should have. A high level lower resist which will boost the mages dmg higher and a tank of some sort to allow the mages to fire without being attacked. So the mages will have more dmg and be taking less (if any) dmg. So while there are reasons why mages will be hard to work with in hell the scenario you gave should never happen, and if it does the player is either losing already by that point or doesnt know what he/she is doing. So all in all your comparison, while probably accurate and right, is pointless.

[uncreativereally]

I do not doubt your numbers but you are not looking at this the right way. First of all no LoM will have 1 mage and of couse there will most of the time be more fallen or whatever monster. Now there are a few things every LoM should have. A high level lower resist which will boost the mages dmg higher and a tank of some sort to allow the mages to fire without being attacked. So the mages will have more dmg and be taking less (if any) dmg. So while there are reasons why mages will be hard to work with in hell the scenario you gave should never happen, and if it does the player is either losing already by that point or doesnt know what he/she is doing. So all in all your comparison, while probably accurate and right, is pointless.

A summoner should never use LR. At a comparible lvl of lvl30 with lvl30 mastery a skeleton will do 1202-1213 (with amp but without might) and a mage will do at its very best will do 668 (max lightning dmg) with a lvl 30 LR. The higher damage of the skellies make amp a better curse than LR bacause for minions more damage = faster killing speed. Ok say you do bonewall around your mage protecting him from any attackers, it still takes him 5 hits to kill a fallen. Thats still really slow; it could take hours to kill baal that way.

Ok if that wasnt a very good scenario lets try this, your walking with 12 mages (lvl30 with lvl30 mastery) and 12 skellies (lvl30 with lvl30 mastery) (your golem got sick and couldnt come). And you run into 12 monsters.

the skellies are doing 1202-1213 damage to each monster, and the mages are doing 668 damage to each monster (LR and amp on at the same time(dont ask)).

If you have a lvl20 poison nova and a lvl 10 syn (no LR) you would do 854-936 dmg over 2 seconds

the skellies are doing 1202-1213 damage to each monster, and you would be doing 854-936 damage over 2 seconds to each monster (only amp on monsters).

If the group was less than less than 9 monster the mages dmg would be about = the poison nova's. But anything about 9 monsters would give poison nova the advantage. But thats still with amp and LR on helping the mages. If only amp was on anything over 5 monster would make poison nova better.

[kaervek666]

One thing i learned is that even if PN is doing more damage than mages, it doesnt matter if the damage is minimal. also mages offer a lot more protection for yourself and they have that nice habit of teleporting ahead of you as do the warriors.

CE in any case will do more damage than PN, and its helped by amp which you'll most likely be using. my ideal? being able to kill in full MF gear. PN really doesnt work for a summoner without at least a 3-piece trang or full synergies. If you get deaths web, go PN. if you get marrowalks go BS. for everyone else, use mages and CE.

[Mad Mantis]

So one weak fallen (this isnt using the fallens bester attack) can take the best mage at lvl40 with lvl40 mastery to 42.438% of its life. Mages are really worthless if you look at it that way.

Why isn't the Fallen imprisoned in a BP? Or under the effects of Attract?

There is more to Mages than meets the eye. They require a different play style than the Warriors. You can't just leave your room to get a cup of coffee and come back, only to discover that you are still alive and kicking and that the entire screen was slain by your Warriors. They need a little more attention. The reason why most people think they suck is because they think of them as Warriors. Don't.

[uncreativereally]

Why isn't the Fallen imprisoned in a BP? Or under the effects of Attract?

There is more to Mages than meets the eye. They require a different play style than the Warriors. You can't just leave your room to get a cup of coffee and come back, only to discover that you are still alive and kicking and that the entire screen was slain by your Warriors. They need a little more attention. The reason why most people think they suck is because they think of them as Warriors. Don't.

Your saying the exact same thing as CEG so maybe this will help you both. a mage's dmg and hp arent that much better than a fallen. Thats all I was showing. Yes you can put BP or BW around them but still they are a waste of points unless you prefer a bigger army over more dmg and fast killing speeds. Yes I said waste of points, their damage is so low it would take forever to kill even the weakest monster (5 hits for a fallen).

[Mad Mantis]

Your saying the exact same thing as CEG so maybe this will help you both. a mage's dmg and hp arent that much better than a fallen. Thats all I was showing.

What we are trying to say (or at least I, can't speak for CEG) is that there is more to the Mages then meets the eye. If you handle them correctly they are as valuable as Warriors.

[uncreativereally]

One thing i learned is that even if PN is doing more damage than mages, it doesnt matter if the damage is minimal. also mages offer a lot more protection for yourself and they have that nice habit of teleporting ahead of you as do the warriors.

CE in any case will do more damage than PN, and its helped by amp which you'll most likely be using. my ideal? being able to kill in full MF gear. PN really doesnt work for a summoner without at least a 3-piece trang or full synergies. If you get deaths web, go PN. if you get marrowalks go BS. for everyone else, use mages and CE.

Sorry about the 2 post in a row but I didnt see this post. My stats were based on a lvl20 PN with 1 syn at lvl10 and a lvl 30 mage with lvl 30 mastery and lvl 30 LR (i even used the mages MAX dmg and not avg). Poison nova did more dmg than a mage could do without any gear so no you do not need trangs. CE is help by amp or LR just so you know. You dont have to say CE is better than PN everyone know CE is the best skill a necro has and builds are always about how to get that first body for CE. Poison nova just get that first body faster than mages.

[patheticloser]

I thought the origional question was something like : I have maxed my skelies and mastery, considering that I have +11 to the summon tree what should I do next?

IMHO the answer is max mages, get ALL the curses, and pump CE as needed or as far as you can. The main killers are the skeletons and CE, the mages just stand back and send a little more damage down range. They do make a great second and weaker skill to max. My summonor has max mages, They do just fine.

If the question were skeletons vs mages, or mages vs PN and maxed synergies, or even mages vs scratch my rear the answer is NOT MAGES.

[Raistlinmajerex]

well contrary top what everyone else said, i went with pn for a couple reasons.
a. in narrow places, mages will block your normal skellys.
2(intentional) i have most of trang's so i get some cool poison bonuses.

[uncreativereally]

I thought the origional question was something like : I have maxed my skelies and mastery, considering that I have +11 to the summon tree what should I do next?

IMHO the answer is max mages, get ALL the curses, and pump CE as needed or as far as you can. The main killers are the skeletons and CE, the mages just stand back and send a little more damage down range. They do make a great second and weaker skill to max. My summonor has max mages, They do just fine.

If the question were skeletons vs mages, or mages vs PN and maxed synergies, or even mages vs scratch my rear the answer is NOT MAGES.

-skills
poison nova/ summoner
20-skeleton
20-skeleton mastery
1-amp
1-dim vision
20-PV
10-in poison dagger or poison explosion
1-in the other
7-CE
1-teeth
1-clay golem
1-golem mastery
1-summon resist
84 points total

skellies with mages
20-skeleton
20-skeleton mastery
1-all curses
20-mages
10-CE
1-teeth
1-clay golem
1-gloem mastery
1-summon resist
1-bone armor
1+-bone wall
1+-bone prison
87 points total

-damage
(only difference is mages vs PN so that all that will be shown)
lvl31 mage with lvl31 mastery(his +11 to summon skills)
dmg-
233 poison over 470 seconds (point lessly low)
156-159 cold dmg, frost length 46 sec (avg dmg 158)
274-278 fire dmg (avg dmg 276)
46-433 lightning dmg (avg dmg 240)

lvl 23 nova with one lvl 10 syn
dmg-
887-956 poison over 2 seconds

Poison nova takes less points and does more dmg could you explain why mages r better?