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Zero-unit

10-04-2004, 22:18

Wolfbarbs-The ultimate guide (Revised verson)

By:Zer0-unit -Welcome back to my guide!

So..Some of you have a Wolfhowl sitting in your stash, other seek how to make a Wolfbarb..Want to make use of it or find a place of information? You came to the right place this guide will tell you how!

I. Introduction

II. Stat point distribution

III. Skill point placement

IV. Equipment

V. Charms

VI. Strategy

VII. General Information

VIII. Credits

I. Introduction-

In the vast peak of Mount Arreat had once stood a formed alliance within the Barbarians and Druids, the relationship between the two tribes were strong together. However it came to a day where King Bul-Kathos and Master Fiacla-Gear were thrown into augment about the period of the Uilescadh Mor, the final bout with Man and Demons. So it came to past that the leaders have chosen their seperate ways. Many Barbarians of Mount Arreat had taken sides with Fiacla-Gear to study the arts of the Caol Dulra, the nature arts of the druidic ways. In time of these teachings the students were able to moprh and change their bodies to now become Werewolves! Now, these warriors stand in the fight of the Uileloscadh Mor.

II. Stat point distribution-

To get started, stat points are the skeleton to a successful Wolfbarb. How you displace them later gives results how well your Wolfbarb performs. There are some things to consider when doing your status points such as life, damage, block, attack rating, and defense. For best results follow this.

Strength: Strength, this would only be important for wearing your equipment. For the fact that each point of strength is 1% enchanced damage a Wolfbarb's damage won't be greatly suppled by it. Find out your highest strength requirement and find out any added from equipment or charms. Add a minimal amount.

Dexterity: Now for those who are using shields dexterity plays a role in the chance to block. This is based on your level and how much dexterity you need, Formula: (2*clvl*75/Shield Block)+15. So an example for a level 85 Barbarian using a Stormshield would be (2*85*75/72)+15=193 dexterity for maximum block. dexterity also adds attack rating and defense, the attack rating would be formulated: ((Dex*5)-35+class bonus= base AR, so an example on 193 dex would be ((193*5=965)-35+20=950 base AR. As for defense every 4 poins of dexterity provides 1 defense.

Vitality: This is probably the most important of all your stats, life! The main advantage of a Wolfbarb is the insane life bonus's you can achieve. After strength and dexterity has been taken care of drop your remaining stats into here, each point of vitality gives 4 life. Teamed with Werewolf, Lycanthropy, and Battle orders gives a good sum of life.

Energy: Energy? There's no need for energy here, Battle orders adds enough for PvP or PvM.

III. Skill point placement-

Now to get to the meat of the Wolfbarb, every class has its advantages and disadvantages when it comes to skills. Wolfbarbs get a great advantage in this area, where as they draw strenght from Combat masteries and Warcrys. Heres a list of skills to follow.

20 to -Weapon- Mastery: Depending on your weapon of choice, choosing a weapon mastery will increase your damage and attack rating. Per point this skill grants 5% damage/ 8% attack rating/ Critical strike based on skill level.

20 to Iron Skin: This skill increases your base defense by a % making your oponents chance to hit minimal. Starting at 30% per point this skill grants 10% base def.

20 to Shout: Another defense modifyer this multiplys your over all defense by a % making you an even harder stone to break. Starting at 100% per point this grants 10% over all defense.

20 to Battle Orders: The main life mod for any Barbarian. This increases your maximum life, mana, and stamina by a %. Per point this skill grants 3% life/mana/stamina.

1 to Howl: A prequesite for Shout, Battle Orders, and Battle Command.

1 to Increase Stamina: A prequesite for Increase Speed.

1-5 to Increase Speed: Makes you run/walk faster, has its advantages over other runners.

1-10 to Natural Resist: Natural Resist is fairly useful for those who plan on fighting casters or elemental/melee, even those of monsters that have powerful attacks.

1-10 to Battle Command: A skill that increases every other skill by 1 point. Only add more to this skill if you wan extended cry duration. The extra extended time could outlast your Werewolf duration.

IV. Equipment-

Here we get to the skin of a Wolfbarb. Equipment! Here you want to look for faster hit recovery, attack speeds, defense, damage, and life in your gear. There will be two sides to this, battle equipment and prebuff gear. This also includes options for both rich and poor.

The Weapon-

A Wolfbarb is not tied to any specific weapon. Depending on the speed or damage you want will determine what you use. Usually you either go for the slower but more powerful or the faster and less powerful, to figure the speeds refer to TheDragoons calculator here (http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wereformadvanced.html) . (Use the Normal Attack speed chart. The Feral chart is inaccurate.) Your weapon of choice would correspond to the correct -Weapon- Mastery you choose. Some weapons I would suggest are.

Lightsabre Phase Blade

Baranars Star Devil Star

Aldurs Rythm Jagged Star

Breath of the Dying:

Grisworlds Redemption Caduceus

Beast:

Azurewrath Phase Blade

DeathCleaver Berserker Axe

The Armor-

For your armor slot you would want to use this as your main source of defense. Iron Skin and Shout would receive most of its defense bonus from this. Seek an armor within the defense ranges of 1500-2000+ defense with likeable mods. Some armor of choice are.

Que-Hagens Wisdom Mage/Archon Plate

Shaftstop Mesh/Boneweave Armor

Stone:

Steel Carapace Shadow Plate

Arkaine's Valor Balrog Skin

Enigma:

Stone:

The Helm-

Your most obvious choice for a helm is a Wolfhowl! I really couldnt recomend another. it offers good defense, your shifting capabilities, 2-3 to Warcrys, and most importantly you only wolf attack. Belive it or not Feral Rage does help your damage and attack rating quite a bit, and has two nice additions. Life leech for PvM'ers and faster run/walk for any kinds of runners and caster killing.

The Shield-

As far as I know for all players a shield can be your best freind, PvP or PvM. As for those who like 2-handers That would only be useful as far as PvM. Refer to TheDragoons caclulator here (http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wereformadvanced.html) for block speeds. However the shields I recomend are.

Sanctuary:

Spike Thorn Blade Barrier

Stormshield Monarch

Pheonix:

The Gloves-

Find a sutible glove that could help in places such as life, or hit recovery, even damage on the gloves. Gloves like these.

Bloodfist Heavy/Sharkskin/Vampirebone Gloves

Soul Drainer Vambraces

Dracul's Grasp Vampirebone Gloves

Steelrend Ogre gauntlets

The Boots-

For those who plan on fighting runners or such you may want to find a boot with a decent run/walk %. Otherwise find mods here similar to gloves or any other helpful mod. I suggest these boots.

Waterwalks Sharkskin/Scarabshell Boots

Wartravelers Battle/Mirror Boots

Sandstorm Treks Scarabshell Boots

Gorerider War Boots/Myrmidon Greaves

The Belt-

In this slot you would need to find phsyical damage reduction here and other helpful mods such as life. The belts of choice are.

String of Ears Demonhide Sash/Spiderweb Sash

Verdungo's Hearty Cord Mithril Coil

The Rings-

The rings are very helpful for the many mods rings can give you, look for attack rating and stats here. Find some rings like these.

Bul-Kathos Wedding Band Ring

Raven Frost Ring

Wisp Projector Ring

Angelic Halo Ring

The Amulet-

The amulet should correspond with your rings, combining them for maximum stat effect. The amulets I suggest are.

The Cat's Eye Amulet

Highlords Wrath Amulet

Mara's Kaleidoscope Amulet

Angelic Wings Amulet

Now we come to the prebuff side. Prebuff meaning that you acquire certain + all or skill tab skills and cast to improve any given stats. For maximum efficency especialy PvP you would want to have all your shift and Warcrys at the most it can be. The prebuff gear is lsited here.

Less unfortunate-

Arioc's Needle Hyperion Spear

Skin of the Vipermagi Serpent Skin/Wyrmhide Armor

Stone of Jordan/Bul-Kathos Wedding band Rings

The Eye of the Etlitch Amulet

Wolfhowl Fury Visor

More fortunate-

x2 Heart of the Oak's Flail

Chains of Honor -armor-

Stone of Jordan/Bul-Kathos Wedding Band Rings

Maras Kaleidoscope Amulet

Arachnids Mesh Spiderweb Sash

Wolfhowl Fury Visor

Well that's the end for equipment, but for those who need to find out about faster hit recovery once again refer here to TheDragoons calculator here (http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wereformadvanced.html) .

V. Charms-

Charms! Who could play with out them. This offers a big importance to your wolfbarb search for these types of charms.

Assorted Small/Large/Grand Charms with attack rating, life, and maximum damage or hit recovery.

Annihilus Small Charm (If possible).

Combat Mastery Grand Charms with life or hit recovery.

VI. Strategy-

At last we are at the strategy part of the page! For all those duelist and PvM'ers this will tell you how to make the most of your Wolfbarb in certain cases.

For those who plan to be mage slayers, the advantage you have here is the fact you can take many many hits due to high life, speeds, and resist. Make use of the so helpful Anya quest do each of them 30 permanent resist you cant beat. Now Barbarians have this magical skill, Natural Resist puting at least 10 into this puts you well over the the 0 point. Make great use of Guardian Angel since it offer 15% to you maximum resist increasing its capacity, after that find ALL posible ways of gaining resistance either through 3-5 all resist charms or the Sanctuary runeword helps the most in this subject it offers 50-70 resist! Now the other things that casters do is that...they run! Or teleport, this becomes a problem you'de think but not for Wolfbarbs. Due to the awsome skill of Feral rage which offers an increase in run/walk speed up to 5 charges this teamed with Increase Speed and your boots would make a running force to be feared with. Since most casters have no really good source of hit recovery this is where you can shine in stunning them till they're dead find a really fast attacking weapon. Follow this and any caster would be toast. (Necromancers and Hammerdins will put up a tough fight.)

Howbout those Bowazons? Well the strategy kinda reflects upon the way of killing casters except most of them deal in physical damage. your plan here is to have maximum physical damage reduction, the "cannot be frozen" mod, top life, and the most run/walk you can acquire. In my experience of dueling Amazons I had seen that not many specailize in phsyical damage reduction and hit recovery so like casters a fast attacking weapon would be suitable for a case like this. The Feral Rage skill has its use here making it so that you would corner any Amazon.

Now for a melee subject, there are Barbarians and Paladins that have massive defense bonus making any one have a hard time hitting them. This kind of thing can be countered by the awarding attack rating Wolfbarbs can get. Being that there are five sources of attack rating it would make it posible for most defense to be peirced. Werewolf, -Weapon- Mastery, equipment, charms, and Feral Rage skill. So to make the most of your attack rating make sure you have the most of your prebuff as explained earlier in the guide. Your -Weapon- Mastery should be at its max, and you charms should be assorted life, attack rating, damage Small/Large/Grand Charms, finally the most important part of you attack rating set up the Angelic Halo/Wings combo this is very effective becuase when teamed together each ring gives 12 attack rating per level at 99 the attack rating given off is 1188. In the end your results should be within 26-30k or more attack rating.

As for the Werewolf Druid counter-part this should pose no problem towards us since they do not have the defense to compete with ours and constant attack speed like we do.

Leveling. Well we all have to go through it, and sadly Wolfbarbs get it bad. The best way I was able to level was to start with groups and play on through he game until level 24. Now It's important to conserve your skills so that later when developed, you can invest fully on your primary skills. After youv'e reached level 24 go as a group or have some high level take on the ancients and then proceed to Baal runs. Normally from there on you can leech upto level 44 and do Ancients yet again and on to Hell Baal runs. Most of the the time your a sitting duck becuase of Wolfhowls high level requirement however on the way of leveling you can make use of the Passion runeword which grants some nice skills.

That is about all the strategy information I have, unfortunatly for those of classes that have magic attacks I have no real strategy for them.

VII. General Information-

Well it's important to know your advantage and disadvantage to what ever you do as a Wolfbarb. Here is the list of those.

Advantages:

-Being frozen does not slow your attack speed at any frame.

-The speed you can go at is not limited. (4 frames being top which is fast enough.)

-Your Combat Masteries and Warcrys still apply in Wereform.

-Huge amounts of life, defense, attack rating, and speeds can be attained.

Disadvantages:

-Being frozen affects you run/walk speed. (Unless resisted by "Cannot be Frozen" mods.)

-Lack of damage.

-+ all Druid skills or Druid skill tab skills will not increase shift

VIII. Credits

This goes to the freinds that helped me with the information and helping me put together the whole guide. Thanks

Zabo

F1r3str1d3r

Kodachi

Thank you for reading this guide, and good luck for those who do attempt Wolfbarbs. Many thanks to my freinds that have supported me!

Dr@kE~

D34D

11-04-2004, 02:01

Looks like alot of fun, I've just found one of these helms so this should give me something to do, rather than equiping a sword i found, casting some hydras then turning into a wolf and running round like a barb with a personality crisis, nice one :thumbsup:

Edit. I should be constructive to, well written guide, I guess you use this mainly for pvp, but a bit more fleshing out on the pvm stratergy side would complete this good guide

snow_crash

11-04-2004, 02:50

this looks like a fun character to make/play. I'll consider this one if i ever find that helm.

Zabo

11-04-2004, 03:09

Nice guide, much more informative in terms of alternate gear choices etc compared to the last one.

@D34D yes this is mainly a PvP build.

Once again nice additions, including the strategies for general PvP against classes.

@Zer0 Shall I start on the PvM aspect of the build?

F1R3STR1D3R

11-04-2004, 16:16

Nice alternate gear selections, more in depth with the stat allocation, and dueling strategy.

Also another weapon choice is a Beast runeword for pvm, and transform into bear! This build is made for it. Also if you're on ladder a Shael'ed Azurewrath is nice

Kodachi_ysaane

11-04-2004, 18:51

Nice guide drake, i think it is very good, and very well written.
BTW tell bryn i pwn him more.

AKA_PorcheBendr

11-04-2004, 19:03

props to zer0-unit for the well written guide. (even though my wolfbarb still owns his :) )

oh ya and pvm get dracs there life savers

SkylineFanatic

12-04-2004, 07:58

Nice buddy, unless you play NL
theres not a single chance that a poor person can afford a soj or BK

Zero-unit

12-04-2004, 20:31

Kind of figured on that note, thank you all for the replies on my guide. I am aware an SoJ or BK ring can be quite pricey on ladder, in fact i play non-ladder so i am not up to date what goes on in ladder. Of course not every Wolfbarb needs one of these rings many do just fine w/o them.

Dr@kE~

memememe173

12-04-2004, 21:46

Much better :thumbsup: got everything you need...and btw, you did your sticky?

Kyo

13-04-2004, 13:16

Apologies for a silly question but the Wolfhowl is that a unique or part of a set?

Tried looking in helm section but cannot find it anywhere listed in the items page here on db2 nor on arreat?

Any pointers :scratch:

memememe173

13-04-2004, 16:03

Voice

13-04-2004, 22:46

good guide, seems pretty solid I did find out that i had 2 main questions what are the cost benefits of using warcry charms vs. max/ar/life charms and why not use druid shapeshifting charms instead ... I just think others might have this question so i thought i would ask for them.

Also for pvp what have you found to be the main necessity going for high damage and a lil slower weapon or going for top speed?

Zero-unit

13-04-2004, 23:15

You mean mastery charms right? From my experiences not many value their Mastery charms so it would probably be found cheaper than max/ar/life although the skillers would offer more defense and almost as equal damage and attack rating, max/ar/life would offer more life. Well about the Druid shift charms it says (Druid only) since we are Barbarians, Wolfhowl only offers Druid skills but it does not change what class we are.

As a Wolfbarb personally i'de say speed is king for PvP. Trying to get the most hits i can being at high speed would be the advantage as a Wolfbarb.

Dr@kE~

bone_crank

15-04-2004, 05:25

I dont post much cause I usually look for everything I want to know but I cannot find this anywhere.
Carrion ring has lvl 21 poison creeper charges which is a synergy for rabies. When a druid if you put nothing in creeper then it adds 21 synergies to rabies when wereing this ring. Does this also apply to the barbarians rabies that he gets from wolfhowl.
Thanks

memememe173

15-04-2004, 05:53

evil_dead_ash

15-04-2004, 22:59

yo vourius, this is deaths-reveng (*deaths-reborn) i made a wolfbarb, he is lvl 79, i got a couple questions thus far, 1. i have a 4 x shaeled 230% griz caddy, is this perfect for me? or do i only need 3 shaels? 2. when i attack, i use up my 230 mana very very fast, how i fix this problem?

memememe173

15-04-2004, 23:22

get a mana leech item, but I'm not sure about attack speed

Zero-unit

15-04-2004, 23:22

Oh yes the mana...Well considereing if your PvP or PvM you will run out of mana attacking at such a rate as that. Mana leech is not something all players want to sacrifice gear for. Now when i PvP i rely on my angelics for mana due to 20% damage goes to mana mod on the amulet, this is a very reliable source. As for PvM i do not use a shield instead i use the Doom runeword so that way i will get hit much more often therefore replenishing my mana, to most this is not a smart idea but keep in mind that Wolfbarbs do have a very very nice life increase and i keep 45% PDR while doing PvM (Shaft, Verdungos.).

Ok, about speed. The majority of Wolfbarbs i know about all of them found a x4 Shael Gris caddy the top weapon they can find. The speed is very rewarding in some aspects, becuase many player and/or monsters have a low hit recovery frame a constant hitting will stun them by making them go into hit recovery animation alot, you will allow to hit others much much more than a slower weapon (I belive theres 56 hits in 20 seconds.) teamed with high attack and defense rating making it a pretty deadly weapon to be known.

Dr@kE~

evil_dead_ash

15-04-2004, 23:25

also, how do i get good damage? im only getting like 1.8k

and how do you get the max damage reducement?

doc hugeroosters

15-04-2004, 23:32

Sup Vour. Excellent guide! It is very informative for even the slowest of d2 players. I think its great how your guide encourages individuality with a unique character unlike all those cookie cutter guides. Good work

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 00:08

vourius, new question: ok, i got a ed-max'd +2 valor... but.. i also have an ed-max / life armor... my question is: if i use the valor for pre-buff, then use the ed-max/ life armor to duel.. wouldnt this be better? it gives me 300 more life and 100 more damage..

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 00:12

Your defense would greatly lack, although it does increase life and damage by good amounts. Though 2 things the ed/max armor is missing hit recovery and probably the + skills would help the attack rating. Valor has way more defense and decreases the chance that you would be struck by. Max does not work in armors anymore.

Dr@kE~

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 00:28

hmmm good point, very good point.. ill try them both out ( valor and ed-max ) once i hit 85 today..thanks again vourius.. im loving the wolf-barb right now..LOVING it..

hulla-hop

16-04-2004, 01:04

How do you get some decent damage with griz caddy? my wolfbaba is doing 1000 max with the lvl 23 enchant from demon limb....my gear is as follows: wolfie(+2max, 10allres), ark+2, angelic rings+amu, gris, storm(pdia), gores, bloodfist, 32/14% verdungos, anni(20/15) some max/ar(some with a little life) 3 masteries gc's....prebuffing with one hoto, maras, one bk, arach.

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 01:08

my uses a 49-16 pair of steelrends instead of bloodfist, also i guess i put WAY too much into str ( total of 294 modded) and so i guess normal damage is around 1.2k..

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 01:16

The damage will not be great with a Gris caddy for mine is only 1.4k damage, but to make up for that you gain incredible speeds. I myself use a full invent of max/ar/life small charms and Steelrends to add along with it. Now mastery charms will not be as effective as a max/ar/life charm but they will increase Iron skin bonus and still offer damage/ar. Not every Wolfbarb is limited to the use of a caddy because the damage takes alot of work to satisfy the user...Try other alternatives.

Dr@kE~

Liquid_Evil

16-04-2004, 01:47

For all you guys who have built one of these, how much speed do you find is necessary? I was thinking about an Azurewrath but will it be too slow?

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 01:55

most likely it will be too slow sadly.. try a 4 x shael griz caddy... its amazing..

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 02:14

Not true a shael'd azurewrath is a great weapon! It automaticly gives 250-500 magic/cold damage plus the speed is at 6 frames witch is faster than an Assassins swing rate. It offers 1 to all skills 5-10 all stats and deals great undead damage, Gris caddy is not the only weapon for a Wolfbarb and is infact very useful.

Dr@kE~

memememe173

16-04-2004, 02:44

I thought Dragon Claw was 5/5

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 03:03

Dragon claw is counted as a 10 frame attack yes true there is 2 hits in one and each claw is accounted as 5 each but it's considered a whole attack. Dragon Claw being the slowest at the same time fastest Assassin swing rate.

Dr@kE~

memememe173

16-04-2004, 03:17

xwaitnbleedx

16-04-2004, 03:38

drake, nice guide. ive seen your wolfbarb own many of conc barbs,druids, and pallys. i never was able to kill you(yet) right now my wolfbarb is on the back burner.

Liquid_Evil

16-04-2004, 03:43

drake, nice guide. ive seen your wolfbarb own many of conc barbs,druids, and pallys.

And what weapon does he use? Gris redemption?

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 03:44

Yes i use that, i perferably like the speed. However as i stressed earlier no particular Wolfbarb is limited to this weapon.

Dr@kE~

hulla-hop

16-04-2004, 13:18

zero: could you list the complete gear youre using? and i cant afford all those max/ar/life charms, so any other ideas how to get my dam up?

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 20:41

My complete gear is composed of:
Eth Zod Wolfhowl
Sup Stone Archon plate
x4 Shael Gris caddy
Gorerider war boots
Shael'd Stormshield
Verdungos belt
Angelics amulet/x2 rings
Steelrends
x39 3/20/20's (yes i know..they're duped..)
1/18/16/9 Annihilus

Base stats Damage: 1,393
108 Strength Life:8,109
176 Dexterity Defense:30,183
233 (Current) Vitality Attack Rating:30,079
base mana
lvl:85(currently)

Now to talk damage, this is probably the biggest issue you have with a Wolfbarb. Unfortunatly if you plan to use a low base damage weapon it will require much damage charms. But a way you can help this by Combat Mastery charms they help as equally as max/ar/ i know they can sell relativly cheap becuase masteries are not much wanted at least from my experience. Stocking 10 or so of these would match up max/ar charms and give you other benefits such as increased Ironskin, increase speed/stamina, and natural resist which can be helpful in the place of max/ar/. Other than that you may have to choose a slower but more hard hitting weapon a Shael'd Lightsabre or Azurewrath works great damage and speed wise.

Dr@kE~

memememe173

16-04-2004, 21:18

just out of curiosity, what are the stats on you Wolfhowl...

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 21:27

I have two different Wolfhowls, one duelign the other prebuffing. The dueling one is 3/3/5/5/14/15/10 Eth Zod 144% e def, the prebuff one is 3/6/6/6/10/10/10 Non-eth 143% e def.

Dr@kE~

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 21:51

alright new question: i love the valor, but would a coh work better? or stone?

Zero-unit

16-04-2004, 21:57

CoH ide mainly suggest for those who like resist versus other's that deal elemental damage, the defense will not be that great from this armor considering 70% e def. +2 all skills is quite useful from this armor, but Stone would be the better of the two as far as melee. Valor has a good vita, skill, and hit recovery boost which kinda clashes all you need for an armor im starting to debate myself if i should go back to a eth zod .10 valor.

Dr@kE~

evil_dead_ash

16-04-2004, 22:12

i see..thanks i appreciate it.

Black_Dog

16-04-2004, 22:20

nice guide, Drake... if i wasn't too busy playin my untwinked bowazon and bowamancer, i'd try this out >.<... maybe i'll try it out later this year when i got time ;)

evil_dead_ash

17-04-2004, 20:43

ian, they are amazing in duels..try one out.

evil_dead_ash

18-04-2004, 00:26

hey mike, i got a quick question, im thinkin about re-making my 4 x shael caddy into a 3 x shael, 1 x eth caddy for hitting more, would this be worth it?

evil_dead_ash

18-04-2004, 20:17

nevermind i just tested it out, 120 ias works better for me.

binofury

21-04-2004, 06:03

gris caddy is technically a scepter right? so do any of the masteries boost it? (mace maybe?) if not where should we put skills instead??

Zero'th

21-04-2004, 06:08

Is runemaster a good weapon?

I'm currently using two of em with 5 shaels each. My damage isn't really all that great but the speed is awesome. Is it worth it to trade off speed for damage? I only do about 500-1k atm. Also, does having 2 weapons work on a wolfbarb? I have asked around and the only reply I have gotten is a no. (from one person) so I am unsure right now. There are two seperate damages that show up if I use normal attack but only one if I use Feral Rage

PS: Great guide

memememe173

21-04-2004, 16:46

gris caddy is technically a scepter right? so do any of the masteries boost it? (mace maybe?) if not where should we put skills instead??
mace does...as well as staves

BTW how well would an uped Ribcracker work?

Zero-unit

21-04-2004, 20:48

To Zero'th: Runemaster is a fairly good weapon and in some cases switching damage for speed works or speed for damage depends on what you perfer, but unfortunatly the ias does not add up from both weapons. They are seperate in speeds so for example, if i had a Shael'd Scheafer's and a Shael'd Azurewrath my speeds would be 10 frames/ 6 frames (Note: This only shows in Regular Attack.). If your feraling only your right hand weapon will attack not both.

To Memememe173: Well the defense bonus is great! However the speed is not (9 frames) which is a little slow for a no shielder, if a swarm of Death Lords (Bull kind) from a5 in hell swarmed you i don't see a chance of survival. But that's just my opinion i'm not a 2-hander person.

Dr@kE~

death_toll

22-04-2004, 00:57

I wanna make a wolfbarb!

Anyway, it seems like the most important part of the build seems to be the weapon, and i was wondering how a botd zerker axe would do. I am pretty sure i wanna go 1 handed, but i did not see the botd runeword listed in possible weapons. Maybe if someone could explain what exactly are the important mods in the weapon for a wolfbarb that is pvm/pvp but leaning towards a fun pvm build.

Also, on the buff, would 2x +3 warcry spears suffice? (does anyone need btw? i got a stash full for free or for your items)

Anyhoo, thanks for all replies...Im Psyched!

Zero-unit

22-04-2004, 02:45

Well in the guide i did mention the use of BoTD Warspike which hits 7 frames, a Zerker would hit 8 and its not necesarly true about the weapon. Wolfbarbs rely alot on their armors for defense, now the +3 to WC spears would work but it limits the capacity your Werewolf and Lycanthropy recieves from +all skills items. It makes a big difference nontheless you can always use them if you are not rich.

Dr@kE~

Clades

22-04-2004, 03:25

In the past guide, you mentioned that a Tomb Reaver was a good fast two handed weapon for ladder. Would any Tomb Reaver work, or does it have to have a certain number of sockets in it? And if so, what should be put into those sockets? thanks.

Zero-unit

22-04-2004, 04:10

Figured i missed something...Well for starters that is one heck of a Pole arm but Barbs are not too ias freindly with Pole arms. For a 7 frame attack you would need about 95% IAS, and for a 6 frame it be 115% IAS so its kinda costly for the low frame amounts however it packs a punch for that slow rate. Unfortunatly, any weapon a Wolfbarb grabs hold of should hav the most amount of sockets it can because speed is very vital. In my opinion a 2-hander wouldnt be such a very viable thing, but thats just me i say that becuase a 1-hander could get much faster and still do decent damage one of these weapons is a personal favorite "Azurewrath".

Dr@kE~

Clades

22-04-2004, 05:01

Okay, very detailed explanation. Thanks a lot. Griz Caddy here I come :o

Spicy_Meatball

22-04-2004, 18:34

I'm building a furry barb also...

My equip:
Helm: Wolfhowl
Amulet: Highlords
Armor: ???
Belt: Verdungo
Shoes: Gore Rider
Gloves: ???
Rings: BK and Ravenfrost
Shield: Storm (/w -15req/30%ed jewel)
Weapon: 3 sock :cheesy: Griswold Caduceus (224%ed)

I'm trying to get a 4 sock Caddy.

I'm not quite sure what to use for armor and gloves... Arcaine, CoH??? The +skills ont both armors is nice for the wolfstats... CoH has my preference for the +20 strength and resistances... But Arcaine has nice Vitality and FHR.
As for gloves: Souldrainer for mana-leech? Or Steelrend???

Voice

23-04-2004, 20:54

Did you post the fhr, and fbr breakpoints ... cuz i didnt see them

sk8brdnick

23-04-2004, 21:00

The dragoon calculator shows a 5 (not 6) frame feral for tomb reaver socketed with either 3 IAS/xx or shaels. The dmg would probably be quite nice, is 5 frames too slow? Is the calculator wrong?

Also, what about using Enigma armor? Even if you choose not to use teleport, the other mods are godly...

+2 skills
+str (better than +vit now that BO doesn't count +vit items)
+45% FRW
+5% max life
+8% DR
+15% dmg to mana

not to mention good defense. Seems like an excellent armor option as long as you aren't in need of large amounts of DR or resist.

Zabo

23-04-2004, 21:47

Even if you were to choose to tele, its impossible, you wont be able to cast it in wolf form.

Basically lack of fhr, resis, and huge def compared to that of stone, Im not saying this doesnt have its uses but I prefer not to use it.

Zero-unit

23-04-2004, 22:05

Sk8brdnick: As I've mentioned before the Feral chart is wrong. Use the Normal Attack chart it is the correct info, and I've noticed i forgot to add that. It is a suitable choice has very nice mods but find a low strength high defense armor for best results.

Voice: I hyper linked a site refering others to test the FHR and FBR bps on TheDragoons calc, i figured instead of listing them they could see for their selves.

Dr@kE~

ipityfool

24-04-2004, 07:51

Well, hello there...I'm writing here because...another wolfie coming :D

Few questions tho:

-Is my beloved and so far unused cb good weapon? I won't/can't get BotD and I wan't to use this, but is there cheaper/faster => better solutions? And if this is "almost best" for me, socketing? Shael or 39 ed jewel?

-Colossus Blade
"Ghoul saw"
40 ias
349 ed
10 max dmg
146 ar
8 str

-Could you explain again why not enigma? I would like to use it really and I won't tele with it in PvP. We have Friendly dueling in normal difficulty and I won't be needing resist for example. Frw is awesome with it and str frees a lot of life.

-Charms...Are masteries charms almost equally good as combats? And I don't have charms which have max/ar/life in one package but I have to use max/ar/something and life charms which are cheaper. So what would be roughly optimal solution? Let's say 5 or so skillers (plain :( ) and little charms rest?

-And ll is pretty much useless in PvP, right?

:thumbsup:

Zero-unit

24-04-2004, 14:33

Well, a CB has some good damage but the fact that its a 2-hander makes it a very slow weapon of choice I really couldn't recomend 2-handers. However there are much more faster and decent damage hitting choices like a Shael'd Lightsabre which hits 7 frames and deals elemental damage, or a Shael'd Canebreak even a SHael'd Stormlash and i belive their pretty affordable and suitable weapon choices for Wolfbarbs.

Now i mention before i have forgot to include Enigma, but it makes a great choice of armor just be sure to find a high defense armor the mods are very likeable.

As for charms Combat skills are pointless becuase you cannot use them in Wereshift. Combat Masteries work just fine they offer damage and attack rating just as well as max/ar/life,fhr. So they work.

And yes life leech is usless PvP it has been reduced by 1/12 so for life leech to actually work you'd need 300+ even with that it will sitll be considered 32% life leech in PvP.

Dr@kE~

memememe173

25-04-2004, 02:21

I'd just like to compliment you on who well you answer every question asked...keep up the good work :thumbsup:

Snarlin Stef

25-04-2004, 13:26

can this build give a good BOTD zerker WW barb a run for the money? can this build beat a good smiter? or is there just no chance?

what chars does this wolfbarb excell at killing?

thnx
stef

Zero-unit

25-04-2004, 15:23

Yes they can actually! Vrs WW barbs i use a shift method, basically hold shift, namelock them and allow them to come to you. However sometimes they will be smart and wait for you to come to them. So when they do attack them once your in range then shift click again until hes dead.

Vrs smite they can lay a couple hits on smite and are capable of killing them for this take an advantage of the great Werewolf hit recovery. You want the max frame it can recieve which is 3 (86% FHR = 3 frames for Werewolf) since smite stuns and knocks back you will be taking a FHR animation each time it hits you. When facing it just hold down Feral Rage and since you recover 2 times faster than they hit you you'll mostly hit every other time. This won't guarentee success each time due to some that use Life tap there are also those that are very power and since smite is uninteruptable it makes it much more difficult to kill them.

Wolfbarb can actually kill......Everything but most Hammerdins, Bone Necromancers, Blizzard Sorceress', and Poison javazons.

Memememe173: Thankyou for the compliment, i try to keep up with the questions that are asked knowing i can't fit everything into a guide (I tend to forget.) but i am happy to help any one with Wolfbarbs anytime.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

25-04-2004, 18:14

Zero-unit

in your opinion... what is the slowest weapon speed youd recomend to be able to take down WW and zeal and smite attacks?

that is my biggest concern... id love to slap on a badass weapon like BOTD warspike... but now that we all know for sure that normal attack speed is used to get the real frame rate from dragoon's calculator... i see that its just too slow (i think)

the only reason for having an UBER fast weapon is to sneak in some hits while your getting knocked around by uninteruptable attacks....

so whats the slowest frame rate you think youd try?
thnx
stef

also... just a sidenote... there are some great pvm maces that you get to use for pvm if you decide to get gris caddy for pvp... (stone crusher and schaffers are both great pvm weapons)

Zero-unit

25-04-2004, 20:14

Well if you know me i always choose the fastest in PvP, but not all players like that. One things for sure if its smite your fighting you will need a fast weapon you could probably get 2 hit for each of their smites and racover half time faster. Vrs WW i might do BoTD Warspike, but since WW'ers pass through you it may be difficult to get your hits in personally i never tested out any other weapons than a x4 Shael Gris caddy in PvP so i can't varify. 6 frame attack is faster than any one elses initial attack so you would be ok, and thats the average speed i'm ok with using. This may not be enough information but then agian i hadn't have so much testing time. In PvM Scheafers is pretty fun to use, lowers your enemies life with static but i know an even faster weapon that can do just about the same effects. It may not be mace but "Crescent moon" rune word does the job or even a shael'd Stormlash, Shal'd Lightsabre and so on but i would not recomend going 2-handed unless its faster than 6 frame attack rate.

Dr@kE~

binofury

26-04-2004, 00:05

i made THIS (http://gallery.cybertarp.com/albums/userpics/13541/awesomearmor.jpg) today for my wolf barb, think itll be ok to use a medium armor? cause its got 300 ed :0

Zero-unit

26-04-2004, 02:25

Oh wow thats a very nice Stone, it fits a Wolfbarb very well. It will be very pricey to repair once it loses durability due to it being superior, it has great defense, takes care of hit recovery, and gives stat points. I'de use it as my main armor.

Dr@kE~

binofury

26-04-2004, 06:00

can you use the repair cube recipe to repair runeword items? if so i plan to do that whenever need be :)

Snarlin Stef

27-04-2004, 22:03

can you use the repair cube recipe to repair runeword items? if so i plan to do that whenever need be :)

ort rune + any nonethreal item + cube = repair

Snarlin Stef

28-04-2004, 19:45

Zero-unit

28-04-2004, 20:13

Well, I've went through this test many times and I was kind of wrong about Stone (Not that it's no good.). The reason that I've chose Stone before was becuase in an armor such as an Archon plate I would need minimal Strength and that I could add more to Vitality thinking i would receive more than a Valor. It worked for a while but I had better results with a Valor knowing the + skills it offers to my Masteries and more Vitality points than Stone. In comparison Valor > Most armors and Stone.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

28-04-2004, 20:24

F1R3STR1D3R

28-04-2004, 21:23

zero unit...

why is stone > valor
considering the dimishing returns with defense... isnt stone overkill?

valor has a nice life bonus (45 stat points assuming level 90) and stone only has 32 stat points..

valor also has +2 skill...

so why do you prefer stone? just curious

thnx
stef

FYI, +vitality on items/charms are multiplied by how much life 1 point vita gives you, then added after the skills, not modded by the skills. For example Valor with 45 Vitality would give you(Vitality*4+LifeCharms+LifeItems+LevelUP+Quest) *(Skills+100)/100 + 45*4, and not (Vitality+45*4+LifeCharms+LifeItems+LevelUP+Quest) *(Skills+100)/100

That said, I still prefer Ethereal Valor.

memememe173

28-04-2004, 22:10

Ya...BO won't multiply: +vitality, +energy, +life w/ lvl, +mana with lvl

Snarlin Stef

28-04-2004, 22:29

errrm...

so assuming you twink the 16 str from stone into added vitality points that are effected by BO etc... etc...

what armor gives more life once converted into a wolf form (BO + Lycanthropy etc)

stone: counting 16 extra vitality points; twinked over from str + 16 vitality points from the armor itself

or

valor: +2 more BO and 45 vitality points from the armor itself.

id do it myself but i dont quite understand.... seems to me if stone DOES give more life (because it of the 16 str points twinked into base vitality points) then it would be a beter armor... who cares about eh +2.. with wolf barbs its all about life... not to mention the nice resists and FHR stone has.

i think that arkiane valor is better simply because of the +2 to lycanthropy...
thnx
stef

Snarlin Stef

29-04-2004, 02:16

Concerning damage gore riders vs war travs

a caddy has base dmg of 37-43 damage (average of 40) and its a base -10 speed weapon....

then consider CHARMS: sure its nice to have inventory of 3 max/20 life charms... but for legit ladder players the barb combat charms + life are the only realistic way to go(amping up the chance for critical strike to around 40%+ with skillers and + skills gear).

now... war travs have a great bonus of adding 15-25 damage to your base dmg of your weapon. that is effectively increasing the caddys base dmg from 53-67 on a base -10 speed weapon.

my point is twofold:
1) gore rider might not be the best decision for damage output. 40% critical strike rolls 1st and only if that fails does the 15% chance to deadly strike rolls. basically you are only increasing your chance to do double damage by about 7% not 15%.

2) the 15-25 damage added on wartravs increases the % of damage on faster weapons much more on faster weaker weapons than on stronger slower weapons. Think of it this way... a phase blade has base damage of 30-35 dmg (45-60 with wartravs... basically getting a huge % increase) whereas a legendary hammer does 50-61 dmg (65-86 dmg on base -20 speed weapon.) as you can see the % increase from the flat dmg increase of wartravs increases the lower dmg weapons by a higher % than the slower stronger weapon by defalt.

Phase blade + WTs = 35+25 = about a 85% increase in max damage

legendary hammer + WTs = 61 + 25 = about 35% increase in base dmg.

i think war travs might be the way to go here... not to mention the extra stat points recieved.

what do yall think?
thnx
stef

Zero-unit

29-04-2004, 03:07

Snarlin Stef

29-04-2004, 04:54

Well put it this way, If you have about 1.4k damage w/o Wartravelers and you had extra Deadly strike wouldn't that be doubles to soemwhat around 2.8k right? Travs would just add more max IMO Gores is the winner.

Dr@kE~

but if you know how statistics work... assuming you have 40% crit strike (from mace mastery and 10 combat skiller and other + skill gear).... gore rider double dmgs only rolls 60% of the time.

thus the 15% chance of double dmg only rolls 60% of the time. So you have to take 60% of 15% (60% x 15%) to get the % added to do double dmg from gores.

15% isnt the real double dmg that gores does but rather .15*.6 .... as you can see the % added from gores is hardly worth it... now the open wounds... now thats another story... i think the ONLY reason to use gores is for the open wounds.. not the deadly strike.

slap on the wart travs and it should amp your dmg up another 200 dmg to you total dmg... can you please check as my wolf barb is only level 69 heh ;)
thnx
stef

Snarlin Stef

29-04-2004, 06:18

dual weild in wolf form...
thinking of equiping with schaffers and stone crusher... hows does that work in wolf form? do i swing faster with a duel weild?

or

is it better to equp a cranium basher?

this is with regards for pvm...

thnx
stef

Liquid_Evil

01-05-2004, 05:41

If defense wasn't a problem, what about equipping a Jewelers Armor of the Whale w/ 4 p. rubies? +250 life sounds pretty good and BO and Lycan both boost it right? Oh, and how necessary is the Angelic combo, what is your AR without it? Thanks in advance for your help.

Zero-unit

01-05-2004, 14:14

Snarlin Stef: Dual weilding can work good depending what weapons you are using, unfortunatly the speed will not stack from the weapons and make you faster instead they apply seperatly. So if you shael'd both the Scheafers and Stone Crusher, Scheafers would attack at 10 frames while Stone crusher will attack at 13 frames now heres the catch, Feral Rage only attacks with the right hand side so only one weapon will be used. If you had Normal Attack as main then they will both work. Cranium Basher will do better for you if your talking PvM wise, has mass damage and amplify damage also if shaeld it would be attacking at 10 frames.

Liquid_Evil:That would add alot of life I'de say about 800+ maybey more if your life is lacking a little this works, but I would only use maybey as far as PvM. Now angelics is most useful PvP with those that have large defense, If you fight other Barbarians or Paladins this is a great way to peirce it. As for most other classes its not all that important however it does keep my mana up very well which eliminates the need for mana potions in duels and adds good life (115 to life). My AR without Angelics was 12.7k.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

01-05-2004, 15:48

xanth-1

01-05-2004, 16:20

out of the items you listed for shield/wep, what is ur wep / shield of choice? thanks in advance for your help

Snarlin Stef

01-05-2004, 16:24

out of the items you listed for shield/wep, what is ur wep / shield of choice? thanks in advance for your help

storm and 4 shael gris caddy (zero unit says that other slower weapons such as azure wraith can work very well too.)

thnx
stef

xanth-1

01-05-2004, 16:51

i got storm... but how much does caddy cost? my acct recently got stolen and im kinda on a budget. friend is helpin me out a little though.

xanth-1

01-05-2004, 16:59

i also had one other question... is 156 base strength too much? thats how much i put on him... i got the same amount of dex too...

Zero-unit

01-05-2004, 17:03

ahh thnx zero unit...

can you please do me a favor and slap on war travs and tell us the dmg increase recieved by them? id do it myself but my wolf barb cant even wear his wolfhowl yet and i dont have the charms and stuff that i need yet... :P

also

good ole demon limb enchant > angelics... no?
i see maras as a nice amu for pvp... resist... not just for prebuffing.

thnx much
stef

Well I did try Wartravelers and it gave me a 102-168 damage increase on my min/max which did fairly nice for me none the less I perfer Gores the Open Wounds is a winner for some duels. The enchant could replace the Angelics for some occasions however in PvP most veiw that as Bad manners (As do i.) it gaveme 5k AR increase when I did it but angelics offer about 8-9k AR per ring and thats a pretty good increase AR like that would be recomended for those that have high defense.

I belive I did mention the use of it PvP and PvM wise, it would surely help your resist and give more to your other skills.

Dr@kE~

Hex

01-05-2004, 18:18

Zero I have a question about Griz Caddy bp's. If I did it right you should hit 7 fps right? Or am I completely wrong. Btw are you on Ladder or NL?

Zero-unit

01-05-2004, 20:09

I am not exactly sure what you meant by that but I'll list you the Grisworlds Caducues Break points. They are as followed. 11frames =0% ias, 10frames =5% ias, 9frames =14% ias, 8frames =36% ias, 7frames =51% ias, 6frames =69% ias, 5frames =91% ias, 4frames =119% ias. I hope that helped, and I am Non-ladder East. *Zer0-unit (The "0" is a zero.)

Dr@kE~

Hex

01-05-2004, 20:13

Whats your acct name? I wanna see your barb. I'm on East L

xanth-1

01-05-2004, 20:34

i was wondering the same... but wasnt sure if it was alright to ask.

Snarlin Stef

02-05-2004, 02:27

yah the open wounds is just HUGE in duels... especially when you consider that wolf barbs have so much life that they take a while to kill... thus giving more time for the OW to take effect.

on another note... by using the angelic setup... how do you get the "cannot be frozen" effect..... having that mod is KEY for all mellee chars.

please advise
thnx
stef

Zero-unit

02-05-2004, 03:12

Heres a bonus you will like, Wolves cannot be slowed unless there is 2 different types of slow for example you would need Cold damage and Slow target to make you slowed. So the need for Cannot be frozen" is not really needed!

Dr@kE~

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

02-05-2004, 09:08

i found that substituting verdungo's for trangoul's belt is quite nice. it gives you way more life than verdungo's AND the cannot be frozen mod. this allows you to use 2 angelic rings :D you don't really need the 15% extra dmg reduction that much with so much life

Hex

02-05-2004, 15:23

I saw drakes barb in action last night and all I can is just... Wow. Drake would you be interested in dueling a friend of mine in clan? He has a pretty good pally.

Zero-unit

02-05-2004, 15:25

Now theres something I can debate, as I said earlier "Cannot be frozen" is not a factor because Wolves are not slowed from cold, or Holy Freeze, or Slow target alone. Barbs gain about 4 life per Vitality but as Firestrider said its calculated a little less however I Verdungos gives way more life than you think. The 15% PDR is important in alot of cases, most of the time it could help in situations of living or dying. True we have lots of life but would'nt you want to make it more worth while?

Dr@kE~

xanth-1

02-05-2004, 15:46

hey drake, i just wanted to say thanks for helpin me out last night, im doin pretty good. i ended up gettin a pair of bloodfists. And im lvl 79 now so i can use my wolfhowl :clap: I tried on a friends griz caddy last night though... and i only do 794 dmg with it... how do i remedy this problem??

Zero-unit

02-05-2004, 17:08

Unfortunatly a weapon like that will bring damage problems, usually the way i deal with it would be with max charms, if posible look for 10 max gc's or better yet you can stock up on Combat Masteries charms they work just as good and it will increase Iron Skin, Natural resist, Increase Speed by alot.

Dr@kE~

xanth-1

02-05-2004, 17:24

Hex

03-05-2004, 01:50

I can't work on my barb :(. No one on to finish power lvling me.

Snarlin Stef

03-05-2004, 03:45

zero unit

how do you know that mastery charms will help your weapon dmg just as much as 10 max GC?

that doesnt seem right.. the % increase seems low with masteries... and the chance of crit strike really gets diminishing returns as more points are invested into it...

have you done tests on this? i can be wrong... im just wondering if im missing something here.

thnx
stef

Zero-unit

03-05-2004, 20:28

It will not be as good as 10 max GC's, however it will provide sufficient damage and attack rating. The critical strike received from Weapon mastery will not be all that great, Combat Mastery charms would be an alternative fro those who cannot afford much.

Dr@kE~

Hex

04-05-2004, 00:11

Mike, hard would it be to get your gear on nl?

Zero-unit

04-05-2004, 00:28

Hard maybey not, expensive definatly. I carry the top gear a Wolfbarb could have and in my thought I belive it's some what "Perfect". However it would be even more costly on ladder due to such demanding charms. Although not every person can afford my gear and not every person wants to devote everything they have into a Wolfbarb that is why we have the lesser alternatives they can choose.

Dr@kE~

Metroid_01

04-05-2004, 01:10

Hey drake, i was making a frenzy baba but recently found a wolfhowl. i allready know i cannot make him to a wolf barb because it would be a complete disaster, but im curious to know the stats on ur baba with battle cries and prebuff and all to know what to shoot for. Seeing it in action wouldnt be too terrible either :).

Edit: i plan to remake the barb, just because i realize frenzy cant compete with nething pvp, and a wolfbarb would be a fun "unique" alternate. better than the usual ww barbs :/

Zero-unit

04-05-2004, 01:22

Heh, well his stats and stuff are. Currently at level 90.

Life:8069 (currently)------------Strength:124 (base) 202 (geared)
Defense:30990 (currently)-------Dexterity:179 (base) 222 (geared)
Attack rating:29626-------------Vitality:232 (base/currently) 338 (geared)
Damage:710-1489--------------Energy:10 (base) 28 (geared)

If you wish to veiw I will always be at *Zer0-unit East/non-ladder, thank you.

Dr@kE~

Metroid_01

04-05-2004, 01:38

::chokes:: those stats are AMAZING. :worship: :worship: :worship:
damage is a drop low but hell everything else is spectacular. by the way what weapon u use?
i was concitering a flamebellow with a shael for mine (it does like 200 max 1h with a couple hundred fire and has a fast speed.) im gonna check for u right now to see if ur on :)
ty for the info by the way.

Zero-unit

04-05-2004, 01:44

If you look one or two pages back I listed my gear, only thing that has changed was a Eth-zod Valor 1 skill.

Dr@kE~

Strawboy2

04-05-2004, 23:22

hey... yea so i decided to start a wolf barb and im really poor b/c i hadnt played since october.

i guess the two one handed weapons that i have that best fit this build are b-star and a 6soc phase blade...which one is better for wolfbarb?

heh
thx

Zero-unit

04-05-2004, 23:28

A shael'd Baranar's Star would do better than that phase, it certainly has more damage and the speed is not too bad.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

05-05-2004, 05:35

dr@ke

concerning damage:
what about taking the WW Assasin approach to damage.
- open wounds
- poison

here is my logic... even with the uber godly charms you have.. the damage seems low.

if you fill 4 rows with 100 poison Scs thats 4000 poison dmg over 6 seconds.. (venom alternate keke)... even if you only devote 2 rows to poison charms and

now lets look at Open wounds... its way overpowered in pvp... why not slap on the draculs + the gore riders? this works nicely with the uver fast weapon that is GUARANTEED to trigger the OW.... and then if OW is truly superior.. then 5 shael phase blade + um rune (for more stacked OW) might be the best pvp weapon... and IF that is the best weapon then you can save 20 points from weapon mastery (because your weapon does no physical dmg anyways) and put them into run walk or something else... who knows...

wolfbarbs are usually running around anyways... (unless vs WW attacks) the feral rage works to the wolf barbs advantage here because he can cath fleeing enemies.

i think that OW poison might be a better route to go instead of the physical dmg route... WW assasins are KILLER in pvp and they use this method of damage... what are your thoughts?

thnx
stef

Zero-unit

05-05-2004, 21:24

True WW Assassins do use this route however, they are much different that the way you explained it. Unlike poison carms the Venom skill that they have is in a .04 second duration, the charm is about 6 seconds long (not sure) now as you see alot of dueler consider it "bm" if you have over 200 poison. The OW method is good but as you know WW cannot cast "Chance to cast" mods thus making dracs only godd as far as OW and Strength some would even consider Life Tap "bm" depends where you duel.

Now the strategy I use for the WW Assassins are. You would want to keep the "Walk" command at all times through out the duel doing this will not decrease your block % chance, an armor that will come in handy would be Natalyas armor it practically renders Venom usless due to reducing the poison length to .01 seconds you would want to socket such a thing with perfect emeralds to increase your over all resist. Since WW Assassins lack attack rating alot it would be a good idea to utilize mass defense to give them a hard time usually they like to come attacking you so I use the Shift-click method which is bsically holding shift down while on name lock and play the wait game eventually she'll WW right throught leading to death or if she gets smart go up to her and do the shift-click this works great you might wana have a fast attacking weapon to get the most of your hits since they also lack defense. Thanks.

Dr@kE~

binofury

05-05-2004, 23:00

wanted to throw a little prebuff advice to those of us who cant shell out for a hoto or two just for prebuff. I aquired an ondals staff quit cheaply and it has plus 4 skills faster cast and some 500 additional defense added. Ive found it useful for prebuff of course because its equivelent to 1 hoto and a lidless. The faster cast is nice as i can bo shout etc really fast, but the best thing ive found its usefulness for is during that ardous lvling period where you cant use the wolfhowl yet, so in those times i find my usefulness lacking i just stay on ondals it adds quite a bit of defense with iron skin and shout, and it also ads 5 percent experience. i got it pretty cheap too on ladder as not many sorcs use staffs for their endgame builds, i think i traded a lightsaber for it or something ;)

Snarlin Stef

06-05-2004, 00:46

mang song lesson is + 5 all skills.. i think its the next best thing to 2 hoto....

Hex

07-05-2004, 20:00

Mike I would like to set up a duel between you and a friend's wolf. My friend claims his buddy has one of the best wolfs on East NL. I think a wolf barb could tear them up. Please PM me on when you will be on and if you would even like to do this.

Todd

khaoslbc

09-05-2004, 03:07

I have a lvl 85 wolf barb ^^ - and I own most players in PvP
Here's what I use

Helm - WolfHowl 3/6/6/5
Armor - Upgraded Guardiad Angel Umed & Zod Eth Valor
Weapon - shaeled Upgraded Head Strike!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Best Weapon for Wolf Barb I think ^^ (can't believe no one metioned it)
Shield - Umed Storm Sheild
Rings - 2 bulkatos or angelic rings
Ammy - Angelic ammy, Maras, and Highlords (trying to get better ammys)
Boots - Gore Riders
Belt - 15 DR verdun
Gloves - Draculs or Lava Gout ^^
Charms - a couple of 20 to life sc and 1 annilus (trying to get better charms)

I do about 2.1k dmg which isn't alot if you think about, but with the Head Striker insane Deady Strike percentage I'm doing double damge which is 4.2k dmg =) - plus if i had elemental dmg such as poison it would double to0 ^^

Just a sugesstion, I think everyone that has a wolfbard should use a upgraded head striker - I'm currently lookin for a Etheral Head Striker *wonders if they exist =/

peddroelm

09-05-2004, 23:40

Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength (varies)
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

how bout this for a weapon ?

on what type of weapon shoud it be made ?

Zero-unit

10-05-2004, 02:23

A Beast rune word should be made of a fast weapon, I think Warspike or Caducueis however the Fanactism will not increase your speed so you'll be attacking at 8 frames. Overall the Strength, Fanactism, and Open wounds bonus makes this a decent weapon.

As for Headstriker, it has great deadly strike which I belive activates each hit. But it is much slower than most weapons as a 0 base speed a shael rune would be the best you could do for more speed which is 10 frames. Too slow for my liking in my opinion.

Dr@kE~

binofury

10-05-2004, 04:31

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 05:40

ive never been more satisfied than owning a botd user with a 4 shael caddy that only doed 700-850 damage :p its doin pretty well now, whats the best way to boost that damage a bit to maybe say 1k. btw ive been tryin different gloves and i seem to like soul drainers more than dracs, especially in melee duels with zealers or ww/conc barbs.

Also i was wondering has anybody tried dual wielding gris caddies? just wondering what the outcome of that would be?

2 things to say:
1) why soul drainer? leech is useless in pvp and lifetap > weaken for melee duels
2) in wolf form you only swing one weapon... ( i think only the left one) so duel weilding is pointless.

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 06:34

drake...

perhaps you can enlighten me on this issue:

1)
it seems to me that angelic set is a complete waste. Demon limb doesnt take up gear slots and gets your AR high enough. I know some consider it BM but i dont agree... in a world of marrow walk bugs, enigma, carrion wind bug etc... who are they to say demon limb is bad?

2)
if it is true that wolf form makes chars unaffected by "frozen effects" then it seems to me that the hands down choice for jewlery is as follows; maras and 2 bk rings.

here is why... the plus al skills increase lycanthropy +4 which gives you insane + life. Also feral rage gains a +5% dmg increase with every level. thats +20% ED... also the + life from the rings is just gravy.

so sure you can use angelic... but you can also use bks and maras (your prebuff gear i guess) as your standard gear and rely on demon limb to get your AR (sorry but for me.. BM = BS in the pubbys)

what are your thoughts on that?

Other issues
1) if you are now using arky for your armor instead of stone.. then how are you achieving the last breakpoint for FHR?

2)is shaeling the storm shield necessary? isnt storm fast enough? is there a noticable difference in shael storm and nonshael storm in duels? Um seems hard to pass thats all.

thnx
stef

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 06:50

Did some tests... check this out :)

i equiped my wolf barb with an atmas scarab... for the AR bonus and the chance to cast amp.

i was shocked at how often the amp was triggering (we all know how smite palas and life tap seem to trigger too much) well it seemed to trigger that much.

i do not know if its a "bug" like the smite + lifetap is.. however, one explanation can be when you swing at 4 FPS you tend to land a lot of hits in a short amount of time... thus increasing your chance to trigger the amp damage.

i think that atmas scarab should be looked into more and analyzed a bit more.. with % to cast items... the faster you swing the more chance to roll the % in a given amount of time.

lets say you swing 8 FPS and i swing 4 FPS ... i have more chance to cast amp damage than the slower weapon...

what are yalls thoughts on this? fast triggering amp = the end of your damage drawbacks.

thnx
stef

Hex

10-05-2004, 12:18

Stef what realm are you on? If your on east ladder then there are some tests I would like to run.

peddroelm

10-05-2004, 13:46

will +3 to lycantrofy from beast slack with the +6 from the helmet ?

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 14:07

Stef what realm are you on? If your on east ladder then there are some tests I would like to run.

im on europe
sorry... but hte people are a lot nicer on that realm... im american too :P

thnx
stef

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 14:09

yes it will stack.

however i still think that is not only a very expensive weapon to make... but also not the best choice.

Hex

10-05-2004, 20:06

Stef can you post some stats of the following info?

AR with 2X Angelic Rings/Ammy
AR with Atmas Ammy/And whatever it was you used

Dr@ke:

How come my open wounds doesn't trigger? I put on Dracs+Gores and it doesn't trigger (at least I haven't seen other peoples life go down). Where as my friend who meleed me with his pally, his OW triggered like a mofo and took my life down FAST.

Is there something i'm missing? This is my current setup:

3/6/6/6 Howl
SS
4 Shael Griz Caddy
Angelic Ammy
2XAngelic rings
Bloodfists/Dracs
39/14 Verdungos
Life charms

Stats: Life 5369
Def: 19k
AR: 21k
Damage: 762-876

If you have any insight on why it doesn't trigger let me know.

Zero-unit

10-05-2004, 20:39

Well I missed out on quite a bit here.

Stef: True the Enchant from Demon Limb would give AR however Angelics would defeat it in AR becuase each ring adds about 5-6k AR where as enchant only offers 5k the max. If you switch to Mara/ BK your shift/BO bonus's will not multiply the life per level and Angelics complete offers 115 life total which would be multiplied. Now the Amp damage is a good way to take care of damage and definatly helps well in PvM but whatch out who you fight in PvP some will rag on you for it. I use the 42% 4frame FHR bp not the 86% 3frame anymore which I achieve through Valor, Verdungo, and a 5% FHR sc. Lastly about the Shael in SS to me this makes a big difference and could actually help aganst being locked becuase w/o shael you would block at 6 frames compared to 5 now 1 frame may not seem a whole lot but versus a player like a Zealot their attack speed would have you.

Hex: I can't say much about Open Wounds, usually mine triggers with those that have higher life and defense being that my duel lasts merly a minute or min and a half. Being that im hard to hit and most of the other duelers I face are as well it gives it time to activate, but i only use a Gores for open.

BinoFury: Dual wielding won't change your attack speed, it will just apply for each hand but when Feraling you'll only swing with right hand. So something like that would be useful as far as Normal Attack.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 23:24

drake

with regards to BK rings and maras... its not the BO that gets boosted a lot... its the lycanthropy.... +4 to lycanthropy > 115 life and -4 lycanthropy no?

also... its more damage... +4 feral rage = +20% ED

also... AR and defense gives diminishing returns... id say for nonWW melee chars 15-20k is more than enough for most chars...

defense rating gives HUGE diminishing returns with anything over 20k defense.. so a 15kAR char can hit a 25k defense char almost as easily as a 50k def char...

i guess it comes to difference of opinion... i jsut think that demon limb will give "enough " AR.

i see more pertinent issues at hand here... namely the damage for poeple that can only use "legit" items (talking aout your charms that no one on ladder can possibly do so its not an option)... i think that + skills gear really amps up the feral ED And the lycanthropy Life... using plus skills gear to leverage the wolf skills.

thnx
stef

Snarlin Stef

10-05-2004, 23:55

hex..

i cant really do that yet.. becuase i have 200 unused stat points right now.. i want to run some tests on my own b4 i twink my wolf barb to perfection ;)

with regards to OW... are you level 90? is your friends pala level 90 or higher?

OW is completely level based... its last break point on effectiveness is at level 90.

if you are creating a char that is relying on OW to do damage (ie WW assas or Wolf barbs) then being level 90 is an absolute must.

```````````````````````````````````````

i think i will go a slightly different route than drake did on my gear setup. I will use 2 bk rings and a maras or atmas scarab. I think that there is one HUUUUUUUUUUGE exploit with ultra fast weapon speeds.

the faster you swing a weapon the more hits you get in in a certain amount of time thus the more cahnces to roll the amp occurs its like firing a bazuka or a machine gun... the machine gun will trigger amp damage on an atmas scarab a lot sooner than the bazooka will. :D

so i think that draculs > ogre guantlets (OW > physical dmg) and the lifetap % and the amp % to cast should trigger like crazy... so that in every duel you are in one of the 2 should trigger.... thats what im hoping at least.

i need to do more tests.. but i dont have time right now.

thnx
stef

Hex

11-05-2004, 00:45

I'm lvl 80 right now, but he doesn't rely to much on OW.

Snarlin Stef

11-05-2004, 01:49

I'm lvl 80 right now, but he doesn't rely to much on OW.

if you are using a gris caddy and you arent using 40 godly charms (+3/+20/+....) then you bet your @$$ that OW will be doing the majority of your damage... :)

i suggest you start relying on it... but if you have gores and dracs then i dunno what else you can do to get more OW... UM rune in gris caddy would be nice but then its not fps... :(

your OW will be the nutz when you reach level 90

thnx
stef

Hex

11-05-2004, 02:16

I did some tests.

With Perf ravens and Atmas My ar is 15k compared to my 27k ar with Angelic combo. Now Amp didn't go off that much. I also started watching peoples life more closely. OW triggers a lot, so does CB. I like to use Demon Limb+Angelic. I wouldn't reccomend Atmas on a high def char. The chance to hit is bad. Btw my ar is lower because i'm on Ladder. Btw, would a 3x40/15 ias, Lo'd Griz caddy hit the 4fps bp? I figure you could still need all the Deadly Strike you could get.

Snarlin Stef

11-05-2004, 06:09

no... the last bp on the -10 base speed weapon is 119 IAS... gris caddy gives 120 IAS (4 shael)

so its JUST enough

if i did have one socket... to spare id put UM rune in it... there is no way to make the gris weapon hit hard unless you have GODLY as hell charms so i woud focus on OW... and swinging my weapon so fast that the enemy cant sneak hits in.

amp dmg from atmas isnt triggering that much? mine was going off like mad and i was doing for over an hour to make sure... it was going off so much that it seemed bugged to me.

are you using gris caddy? faster swinging weapons trigger % to cast more often within a certain amount of time.
thnx
stef

Hex

11-05-2004, 12:18

Yes i'm using griz caddy. I dunno I was dueling barbs, pallys, etc so they had some good def. With 15k ar I can hit up to 25k def right?

Snarlin Stef

11-05-2004, 14:58

Yes i'm using griz caddy. I dunno I was dueling barbs, pallys, etc so they had some good def. With 15k ar I can hit up to 25k def right?

no... its does not work quite like that.

defense always has the "upper hand" over AR. If defense is around 25k then you will not hit the enemy that much no matter what your AR is. there is a lot of dimishing returns with both AR and defense.

experiment with the angelic vs ravens + demon limb etc etc...

swing your gris caddy 50 times on a 25 k char then on a 35k char... you will see you will hit these chars just about the same amount whether your AR is 15k or 25k...

when you do this test keep in mind that if an enemy blocks your attack that it counts as a hit.

thnx
stef

Hex

11-05-2004, 20:48

I dun know but I recently (last night) required an Eth +6 feral wolfhowl. I just need 2 zod runes for that and my valor. Maybe I can find some Max damage/ar/life sc's and buy those in bulks.

I can say this is a char i'm going to stick with for a while. I never ceases to amaze me (and others who have died by me) how a wolfbarb can whoop some major arse. I wish I had done this a long time a go.

Heres to you Dr@ke :clap: :clap: :clap:

Hex

13-05-2004, 12:14

DeathByDesign

13-05-2004, 12:29

i am using a upgraded umed skulders on my wolf/barb and find it very useful myself

Zero-unit

13-05-2004, 13:24

I did some testing. Now amp triggers quite often. So does life tap. I find that stacking these two is just obnoxius because if amp goes off, life tap closely follows. Maybe I should just up bloods to elite...

Was this in PvM? Usually it takes a little bit longer to cast in PvP especialy those with high defense. As for me those are however I perfer other helpful things heh heh.

Up'd Skulders, hm never considered that well since its mostly an mf armor, the defense bonus must be high I'de say. Maes me wander about an eth up'd Skulders.

Dr@kE~

Hex

13-05-2004, 20:48

Yea it was in PvM. I was smacking some zombies up to get gold to repair demon limb and tap went off a lot so I figured i'll try out atmas. Wow! It triggered a lot. If you can get amp to cast in PvP it can chunk down some health.

Hex

Mule

13-05-2004, 21:04

Hm, well, no matter how you test, there's to me no known bugs with percent chance to cast and swing attacks, so your amp will be cast every 20th hit (5%). If you see more, you'll see less later, pretty simple.
In general, this is starting to degrade to the level of who can come up with the cheapest gear, what a shame.

Hex

13-05-2004, 21:19

I was in a duel game and I killed 3 barbs set up the same way. BotD/Enigma/Etc etc. The assn said, "You know whats funny? His equipment cost 3/4ths of whats yours did and he killed you." Cheap eh? I don't care how you feel about how cheap the equipment is. If I can kill people with the cheapest equipment, that just proves how good the build is.

Mule

14-05-2004, 13:19

Cheap, not as in pricing, but along the lines of good old slow/poison/amp/kb zons. You might as well come up with the easiest ways to overabsorb/resist while you're at it, find the best means for completely negating attacks. No, that's not PvP then, it's PvNothing.

Hex

14-05-2004, 21:10

I don't use the atmas combo not unless I get upset. Other then that I replaced my dracs for Vampirebone Bloodfists (I know i'm odd :D) and I use angelic combo. Cheap am I? Sorry I don't see it that way.

hulla-hop

15-05-2004, 16:40

i must agree with mule...all this chance to cast stuff is really low...for pvm, sure np, but for pvp it plain sucks ***...major cheap trick

Hex

15-05-2004, 17:05

hulla-hop

15-05-2004, 18:52

so gettin upset is an excuse for acting like an idiot?

Hex

16-05-2004, 00:04

1) Who said I was getting upset.
2) When did I act like an idiot.

Mule

17-05-2004, 19:24

1) You did:

I don't use the atmas combo not unless I get upset.

2) When getting upset.

Hex

17-05-2004, 19:53

By upset when people are being BM or just plain stupid. Second, this is useless. We all have our different opinions and Stef and I were simply expressing ours. Please respect it, and I will respect yours.

Hex

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

18-05-2004, 10:03

Duress: Shael - Um - Thul - 3 sock armor

+40% Faster Hit Recovery
+(10-20)% Enhanced Damage (varies; range not confirmed yet)
Adds 37-133 cold damage
15% Chance of Crushing Blow
33% Chance of Open Wounds
+(155-197)% Enhanced Defense (varies; range not confirmed yet)
-20% Slower Stamina Drain
Cold Resist +45%
Lighting Resist +15%
Fire Resist +15%
Poison Resist 15%

any1 tested this new runeword yet on a wolfbarb? i still have to get the um, but it looks like an excellent wolfbarb armor to me :)

Hex

18-05-2004, 16:37

I made one but I don't know how the def will be. Mine has 1317 def. Made from a Sup Wife Fleece

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

18-05-2004, 17:42

hmmm yeah that seems a bit low to me... you should be able to get around 1900 with a sup sacred armor :)

Hex

18-05-2004, 19:59

That could be too much str though. Actually, it is to much str.

Zero-unit

18-05-2004, 20:23

Personally the only thing about this armor that I see good is the hit recovery and open wounds. Other than that I don't think it's that great. The Prudence (Mal+Tir) armor sounds better for defense purposes since it has repair durability it can be made with ethereal armors. Then again this is my opinion and I had not really even seen one of these myself. About the Sacred, it's not worth it for the amount of Vitality you give up.

Dr@kE~

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

18-05-2004, 22:09

well if you use some other armor then, archon or something, you should get around 1600 easily, which imo is quite nice since that is amongst the highest def armors in the game. as you mentioned the best mods obviously the OW and FHR, the ED and cold dmg will nicely boost your dmg by ~200 depending on items and charms.

lextalionis

18-05-2004, 23:04

Wow, I didn't realize that Vengence and Zeal work while in WW mode. I would agree that would be helpful to have a damage modifying attack for a Wolfbarb after they've charged up Feral Rage.

How important is powering up your WW and Lycanthropy with a pre-buff. I'm curious because its easy enough to find the 2X +3Warcry weapons and using those if you are broke.

Hex

18-05-2004, 23:44

Well, I get a lvl 21 WW. Anything lower and I sacrafice a lot of life.

lextalionis

19-05-2004, 00:00

Well, I get a lvl 21 WW. Anything lower and I sacrafice a lot of life.

Wow, that's impressive, do you use charms to get that high?

Zero-unit

19-05-2004, 01:32

The way that could be achieved is by.
x2 HoTO's
2 skill armor
perf Wolfhowl
Arachnids belt
x2 SoJ's or BK rings
Mara's ammy
Annihilus

Along with Battle Command it will bring up your shift to level 21, now Annihilus is the only charm that can help the Werewolf/Lycanthropy/Feral Rage. Only + all skills work for these. Powering up your Werewolf/Lycanthropy is majorly important due to the fact that it multiplies so much at a higher skill level and doing so also helps other attributes a Wolfbarb has.

Dr@kE~

Hex

19-05-2004, 02:00

Dr@ke got it before I did.

Snarlin Stef

19-05-2004, 21:04

Hex and Drake

can you please verify for me the potency of Dracs + atmas scarab on this build? OR is ogre gaunts + angelics better for pvp (i can care less about being cheap or not)

i want to know how to twink my barb out (ie: is atmas + dracs = the best combo) ;D
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sidenote to all the people that ScReAm "cheap and lame"

pfft... nice engima... nice 33 point synergy on marrow walks.... nice carrion wind on rabies druids, exile + dracul smite palas (triggers life tap like 75%) ... or hammer palas in general etc etc etc... list goes on and on... i dont want to hear it... there are so many "lame" and "cheap" chars out there.... this is pubby duels... anything goes... just like real combat :o

god forbid there is a "new" pvp melee char out there that can run so fast that it can give tele chars a good run for the money (if they dont have tons of fast cast) ;) and has its own items that it can exploit so that it can win too vs WW BOTD babas. (ie: % to cast items)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

personally... i think that fast swinging weapons can really exploit % to cast items because they hit so many times in such a short amount of time.

so will i use demon limb enchant my wolfy barb and wear tons of % to cast gear? YES! if its the best setup... if it just so happens that the nicey nicey build of angelics = best setup... then ill use that.

rant ova :D anyways...

drake or hex... can you please see whats better demon limb + atmas + dracs OR ogre gaunts + angelics

thnx much
stef

Snarlin Stef

19-05-2004, 21:40

Concerning the new runeword Duress

I think this armor shows GREAT potential.
NEVER underestimate the power of openwounds when your char is level 90.
the FHR and the OW are the 2 best features of this armor... the EDefense is VERY nice too... a nonethreal valor has around 1400-1300 defense base so this can be a better option for valor IF you dont have an ethreal zodded one.

also keep in mind that you can put this in a light armor so that you get some extra speed (one downfall of valor)

Dracs + Gores + Duress = 77% OW thats not bad at all... (im sorry to say but OW is so damn overpowered in pvp... we are fools not to use it and exploit it to its fullest... especially with gris caddy that does low dmg)

if you get a nice 500+ def light armor and duress it out ... then you can get 1300-1400 def easily with this armor.

Concerning defense... keep in mind that over 25K you really start to et diminishing returns so is having INSANE defense that necessary? Valor does have the NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE life boost though.. (+vitality +2 to Lycanthropy)

I think this armor needs a closer look...

binofury

19-05-2004, 22:23

Snarlin Stef

19-05-2004, 22:57

stef i use demon limb 1 raven 1 angelic and ammy and dracs and the open wounds is worth it and tap triggers quite often with the caddy flyin. I had a perf rend too but it seemed that the combo with the dracs seemed to work best. i tried the atmas route but i dunno i seem to come out on top more when tap triggers instead of amp. my two cents though :p

well... im planning on going heavy on OW ... i want as much OW as possible... OW is the reason why WW assas are so amazing (if made correctly)

that duress armor i really like... i want to make one ASAP and strap it on...

im pretty much certain that:
dracs > ogres (because one of my 1st WW assas used ogres then switched to dracs and was noticeably better)

if i decide to go for "killing power" over insane vitality then ill go with duress... having OW trigger on the 1st hit = ownage. (especially when you are level 90)... if i decide to go for vitality then ill go with valor instead

now as far as atmas goes.... hmmz.. i figure ill go atmas or maras... the +2 to lycanthropy and +2 to feral rage is VERY nice indead.

Back in the day me and a friend did EXTENSIVE tests with AR and Defense with the whirl wind skill (when we were figuring out the optimal WW assa setups).... i do not have the numbers but i DO remember that defense higher 25k made NO difference in our chance to hit them on each WW pass... and our AR was only 12k at the time... 12k AR hits 25k Defense JUST as good as 35k defense with whirl wind... that i know for sure.. and that is because AR and Defense both give diminishing returns... and defense has the advantage in this too... 25k AR and 12k AR will have just as much difficulty in hitting 25k Defense chars (more or less... the 25K AR will hit more but only like 1 extra hit) and this was done with over 20 Whirl wind attacks per "test."

i can only assume that its around the same concept for stand still fighting attacks such as feral rage.. (but i do not know for sure)

that is why im so hesitant to use the angelics... i think its overkill.. and that if you do tests you will see that 15K AR is just as good as 25K AR... (or so i hope ;) )

I guess i will have to test this atmas + draculs out myself... see what happens..
thnx
stef

Hex

19-05-2004, 23:21

Ok heres the deal. Tried duress. Smacked up a barb with 60k def with conc. End score out of 5 duels Me-4 Him-1. Ok now with the Atmas/dracs. It works. Dracs is a must for the OW.

My friend wrote a barb guide which can be found at this link, http://www.d2-east.com/index.php?showtopic=88&st=0&#entry546, and it's an ownage guide. (Of course we all know nothing compares to Dr@kes.)

On this guide it has Ravens/highlords, which is good because it gives AR/Deadly Strike. People must remember AR and Def AREN'T EVERYTHING! Yes I know shoot me! I said it! The mods on Duress are positively exquisite. The Crushing blow triggers more often, the Open Wounds goes off faster, and i'll be damned if that barb wasn't so mad he ww'd me, and still got teh owage!

Concerning the weapon choice. Griz caddy is good, but the only draw back is that the damage is extremely low. If you look at the BotD phase it swings fast enough and does mid-range damage and overall isn't to bad. I would reccomend it over caddy anyday.

I realize this barb is very gear intensive, but it's just one of those builds that is like that. And with the Killing power over the Vitality, this build is both. You don't stack up on the strength and you stack up on vita. It works out quite nice. If you try this on open b.net, you will see what I mean.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

Hex

Zero-unit

19-05-2004, 23:27

Well Stef you bring up some interesting topics. About the defense and attack rating, depending who you fight these actually do make a difference on which is higher and its never bad to have more of either. For instance, if you fight char such as a Druid bear with moderate defense and your AR is 15k you wont have such a big problem hitting. However if you fight a Concentration Barb with 40k+ defense while Concentrating your chance to hit will be very minimal, even 25k AR will give you a problem.

As for the gear selection you would hafto sacrifice other things in order to use the Dracs, atmas and so on. Like damage and other AR depending who you fight it'll determine if you need one or the other. Personally when I tried Draculs I found I couldnt rely on it casting and since Wolfbarbs have low damage even if Life Tap is casted you won't gain as much life back since its damage reliant. I hadn't been able to test what you requested due to the fact I don't carry most of these items.

Duress, well i think it has good potential but eh being me I choose other alternatives. Also I hadn't acquired this armor yet so I don't know.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

20-05-2004, 00:26

i just ran some tests

for pvm there is no doubt about it... the curses trigger like crazy... atmas + dracs OWN pvm...

for pvp however... they do not trigger NEARLY as often... in fact the atmas was triggering slightly lower than 5%... but that can be attributed to relatively few amount of tests i ran.

i think atmas does not trigger enough to be worth it in pvp... however draculs is still key for the OW.... i still think that dracs > ogre guants

thnx
stef

Hex

20-05-2004, 01:07

I could have told you that stef. :P

Mule

20-05-2004, 10:48

for pvp however... they do not trigger NEARLY as often... in fact the atmas was triggering slightly lower than 5%... but that can be attributed to relatively few amount of tests i ran.

How many hits does it take you to kill an opponent? So far I've yet to fight too many taking 20+ hits (1400 avg. ~50% DS), do remember it must be hits not just swings. So, during each duel chances are you don't even get 20 hits, which is a requirement statistically to trigger the amp. For instance, duelling the conc barb you mention, and any high def opponet (10k+) you'll do a huge amount of swings, but still very few hits. Based on my own experience the amp wouldn't even trigger every second duel, as many opponents can't even take 10 hits. So for every 3rd duel you might have amp triggered, and kill your opponent twice as fast, if you're also lucky enough to get hits in the short period amp is on, this really doesn't look like it's worth it - you both look stupid for using lame stuff in PvP and kill nothing faster.

For PvM it's another story, monsters group and multiple gets amp'ed, many monsters doesn't have block and they generally have huge life compared to players. Hence, for PvM Atma's is quite the amulet.

Snarlin Stef

20-05-2004, 15:16

yah i look sooOOooo stupid.... :whistle:
thnx computer tough guy for putting me in my place and scaring me to death...

you must be 12 years old! damn thats scary!... no really i mean it! ;)

seriously... no one cares for flaming... grow up... i tried something different that didnt work out... big deal...

thnx
stef

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

20-05-2004, 16:48

Concerning the weapon choice. Griz caddy is good, but the only draw back is that the damage is extremely low. If you look at the BotD phase it swings fast enough and does mid-range damage and overall isn't to bad. I would reccomend it over caddy anyday.

dunno, but botd phase seems a bit "sucky" for me on wolfbarb :/ dmg is slightly better than caddy, however it swings 2 frames slower, so the speed of the caddy makes up for it and doing more dmg per second than botd pb i think... only nice thing on botd is the 30 to all attributes and - 25% defence, because dmg wise there are way better choices, such as a cruel balrog blade of quickness socketed with 2 shael which gives gives ~175avg dmg (botd gives ~150 and caddy ~120) -though the problem with this sword is that it might be hard to get one :P

anyway, godliest of all would be a cruel zodbugged balrog blade of quickness with 2 shael, doing a godly 270 avg dmg... i read they exist on non-ladder, but i play ladder, so... tough luck for me :)

The Crushing blow triggers more often, the Open Wounds goes off faster,

it also goes of faster if you swing at 4fpa instead of 6fpa :)

Hex

20-05-2004, 23:11

This is something i've wished to say for a few days now, and this directed directly at Mule,

You are a jerk. It makes me mad that you would criticize someone for an idea that they think is good. Next time you feel the need to make a snide comment, please go stuff it up your butt.

E z

Hex

22-05-2004, 15:31

I re-made my wolf barb. Currently 81. When it's 85 I will post the stats. I will say hat right not, i'm sitting on about 6.6k life.

Snarlin Stef

22-05-2004, 17:53

I am LOVING my wolfbarb... i still have like 100 stat points remaining or so...

My setups are so far as follows.
Maras + BK rings + Duress Armor = my basic setup
Ravens + black oak luna vs Cold Sorcs (migh have to make 4 Thul Armor)
4 Ort Armor + wisp rings (tried Tgods but you really need the FHR that verdungo gives) vs FOH
angelics vs UBER high def chars... so far my friends barb designed completely around high defense is the only char i had to use angelics vs.

i feel the mara/bk rings setup is the best all around setup.. (maybe exchange 1 bk ring for raven... as being frozen does effect run speed of wolf)

I also think that if you have over 25K defense then your defense is "high enough" and i prefer DURESS armor... the OW is amazing and the ED helps tons too... and some nice resists and FHR.. GREAT all around armor.... i like it the best easily.

my char with duress does over 1400 dmg (20ED + over 100 cold dmg adds to this... and i have chance to cast OW 73% of the time... which is NICE! especially if you get them on the 1st hit.

wolf barbs i feel EXCEL AT KILLING CERTAIN CHARS... those being

1) All sorcs; feral rage = SPEEEEEEEEEEEEED and they dont have time to aim in time... basically name lock them with your left mouse button and you dont even need to watch the screen... your barb will autamitaclly run after their teles. (lots of sorcs have crap block and VERY slow hit recovery) so you hit them once and you kill them because they cant recover from your 4 frame hits. also... make sure you have on the right gear vs the right sorcs... (see above)

*fireball sorcs take the most effort to kill because you are a have to head on charge the sorcs and fire balls hurt... however you kinda have tozig zag alot to dodge the fire balls

2) FOH palas: strap on 4 ort armor.. and name lock them.. all they can do is run and charge away.. but my feral rage run is faster than their charge :) so they never get breathing room.

3) all 2 handed weilders (cept maybe good WW assas)... i have killed a few crappy WW assas... but im not so sure it can handle a good WW assa (ill get back to you on that).... concerning other duel wielders... pfft.. im laying waste to duel weilding botd barbs..

4) all druids!!!!! yes even wind druids are dieing to me... i couldnt beleive it myself... i was running away from wind druids for the longest time then i decided to fight a good one.. and i owned him... the reason is that wind druids have crap faster hit recovery.. you hit them once.. and they are stuck and you get to hit them a lot more til they die... this is my favorite char to beat beacause usually wind druids > melee.... the UBER hit points of the wolf barb allow you to tank tornados VERY well... perhaps WW assa can only tank them better. (because of claw block)

5) ive been owning fire claw/rabies druids too... however i will admit that its only because they stay and fight.. if i get hit with rabies.. and the druid runs... i cant kill him in time so i have to go back to town.. but most of the rabies/fire claw druids i been fightning like to stay around for the fight and i win.

4) lightning zons- pfft slap on 4 ort armor... and a wisp rings and tgods... and not much they can do.

bowzons... - yawn.. basic setup handles it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CHARS I CANT BEAT (or if i do beat them its because they suck)

1) bone necro - i tried EVERYTHING... i cant beat these bastards... if i get up close enough to hit them... they have this 33 point synergy bone armor... that tanks my hits well... and i cant do anything but absorb those spirits/spears... i cant only beat newb necros

2) hammer pala... couldnt see that coming ;) ... its not a suprise that only lame magic dmg chars can win... so ***

3) good poison necro - i have a venom ward armor in my stash .. but i still think it willbe able to kill me... i havent seen a good one yet... only newb ones... so i dunno for sure

4) SMITERS! if they have asterons iron weapon.. WATCH OUT.. the magic dmg HURTS.. and takes large chunks out of your life.. also the knock back and stun hurts too... these guys own me.(good ones that is)... also lacerator axe smiters hurts too.. 33% amp dmg.. ouch!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CHARS I STILL DONT KNOW...

1) WW assa... i need to test vs a fury/chaos WW Assa.. see what happens...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TIP OF THE DAY! :D

name lock... (put feral rage on left mouse click and then left click on enemy nad hold down button)... you can catch those randomly teleing casters SOOOO easily... feral rage + barb faster run walk makes you run SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO fast that they cant tele and shoot at you because then you get them... name lock OWNS on wolf barbs... i love to name lock sorcs then not even pay attention to whats going on as they fight for their life to stay alive... all they can do is run back to town.. heh

anyways.. im really excited bout this barb.. I LOVE gris caddy...

thnx
stef

Hex

22-05-2004, 18:16

Well at lvl 85 my barb is looking like this:

7.3k life
23k def
17k ar
950-1470 damage

And the list continues. BotD Phase hit's fast enough and the deadly strike from Highlords helps a lot.

Snarlin Stef

22-05-2004, 18:25

Well at lvl 85 my barb is looking like this:

7.3k life
23k def
17k ar
950-1470 damage

And the list continues. BotD Phase hit's fast enough and the deadly strike from Highlords helps a lot.

how are you getting life like that? please tellme... if you are using arkaine valor as your main armor.. there is no way you can get your resists high enough to be worthy in any duel game IMO...

please advise...

thnx
stef

Hex

22-05-2004, 18:43

I use duress. And I use Botd/Perf Ravens. That saves 70 on dex and 30 on str. Also from wolfhowl etc. I'll post my base stats later.

Snarlin Stef

22-05-2004, 18:50

I use duress. And I use Botd/Perf Ravens. That saves 70 on dex and 30 on str. Also from wolfhowl etc. I'll post my base stats later.

still .. 7.2k seems a bit high... are you prebuffing.. you have 2 hotos? etcetc... what about your jewlery...

duress rox doesnt it... i think its the best armor for wolf barb.. from what ive tried...

arkaine, stone, duress... etc..

what about charms... you ahve max inventory of charms..?
you think 2 ravens > BK rings? doesnt bk rings give more life because of the +1 to lycanthropy per ring..? (the +1 warcry seems a bit insignificant to me)

Hex

22-05-2004, 18:54

It helps in a big way. If you wanna get on east for a min and see I will show you what I use. My acct is Hex-PoA

Snarlin Stef

22-05-2004, 19:31

It helps in a big way. If you wanna get on east for a min and see I will show you what I use. My acct is Hex-PoA

cant get on right now... im kinda running aroundth house today... and then im off to the beach... its too nice not to go ;)

so you recomend filling my inventory with dmg charms or vita charms?
i have a few with life and max dmg.. but i was going witht he max damage route...

Hex

22-05-2004, 19:52

I had a lot of life charms, but I reccomend mastery charms with life.

Zero-unit

22-05-2004, 20:53

I'm glad to see many are enjoying Wolfbarbs, it is truly exciting. And for those who post different strategies and ideas thats great keep it up the since guide didn't include everything. About those Necro's and Hammerdins, yah they are a pain however hammerdins are a little bit easier to kill than Necromancers, but the tip is not to name lock and follow but instead take an advantage of their blind spot if you go under them and strike their hammers can't hurt you. For the Necro's....Well I have no idea. Amazingly we can defeat our counter class wolf Druids due to our great defense and constant attack.

As for the life issue, obtaining 7.5k+ life isn't that hard with the right equipment/lvl/charms, it just demands a strong prebuff. Prebuffing is the best way you can take an advantage of Wolfbarbs attributes as for me I have leve 39 BO/shout, and 21 Werewolf/Lycanthropy. With that the minimal you should have in life would be 7k, then again it relies on charms alot.

If you can't afford max/ar/life sc's the Masteries work just as well and increases other skills of yours although your damage would be a little less. Thanks.

Dr@kE~

MortIIs

23-05-2004, 16:34

How much ias would a botd gs need in wolf form?

Snarlin Stef

23-05-2004, 23:38

How much ias would a botd gs need in wolf form?

ISA in wereform doesnt work like that...
the only IAS that works in wereform is the IAS onthe actual weapon... even auras like fanatism dont increase the IAS in wereform.

GS has 60 IAS... then thats all the IAS your are gonna get... no matter what the rest of your gear looks like.

thnx
stef

binofury

24-05-2004, 05:00

being a wolfbarb has been good fun for me thus far, one of the highlights ive been enjoying lately is after i thouroughly tromp another melee char(botd zealots and barbs alike) i find it funny to those that remain cocky to make a weapon switch.

My weapon of choice, isenharts sword, its visually identifiable as that turd of a weapon and can truly shame your opponent, plus its not that slow so allur CB and OW and tap go off pretty regularly. its good fun its like a handicap of sorts :p

Also another point i wanted to make is that although i have all the guided melee gear im of the poor folk who cannot afford all that godly stuff for prebuffing, and i still have bout 5k life which is more than plenty for 90 percent of people u run into.

Ive found that this build can be incredibly effective for those poor folk out there as each part is attainable without completely emptying all ur characters for gear for this one. But if you choose to and can afford it ive seen the glory of a massive prebuff wolfbarb. btw for u poor wolfbarbs out there mang song is working rather well as a prebuff substitute for 2 hotos. :p

Sun

24-05-2004, 06:32

ISA in wereform doesnt work like that...
the only IAS that works in wereform is the IAS onthe actual weapon... even auras like fanatism dont increase the IAS in wereform.

GS has 60 IAS... then thats all the IAS your are gonna get... no matter what the rest of your gear looks like.

thnx
stefHow about zeal in wereform? IAS in items and skill should work right?

peddroelm

24-05-2004, 07:46

wherewolfs cant use anything but normal atack and feral rage .:) just imagine a ww olf using ww ind :))

Snarlin Stef

24-05-2004, 17:21

I had a lot of life charms, but I reccomend mastery charms with life.

hex...

concerning the 2 ravens... and twinking your barb around those 2 ravens... i was thinking about that a bit... and i think that you can twink your barb around 1 raven but not 2...

here is why.... considering that you need to pretty much have a verdungo cord on all the time... so you cannot really put on tgods.. unless you are going vs pure light dmg chars etc.. but in a chaotic pubby duel game.. its not advisable...

i think that the only other place you can really get ANY light absorb from is a wisp projector.... thus i think its important not to twink around both ravens...

anyways.. thats my advice...

thnx
stef

Hitmann47

24-05-2004, 21:24

I had a lot of life charms, but I reccomend mastery charms with life.

I would rather have masteries with dex or str, the saved pts go to vita and give you much more life (after bo and shift) then any mastery/life charm. Besides, they are a lot cheaper :uhhuh:

your hitmann.

Hitmann47

25-05-2004, 08:42

I would rather have masteries with dex or str, the saved pts go to vita and give you much more life (after bo and shift) then any mastery/life charm. Besides, they are a lot cheaper :uhhuh:

your hitmann.

oops i correct myself, they dont give "much more life", just 24 but they are still a lot cheaper. Think you can get 2 masteries with 6 str/dex for one with 24 life ...

your hitmann.

Hex

25-05-2004, 13:20

Snarlin Stef

25-05-2004, 16:36

Hitman:

No, my charms have 35+ life. I traded for them all so yea. Plus I have 10 wc gcs to switch out for my war cries. Trust me, the life is multiplied. It works out in the end.

Stef:

I'm finding I am having some AR problems because of that. I could have swore the ar was a lot but i'm barely hitting 19k with ravens/enchant. It still works, but I like botd more because it doesn't hit like a wuss.

E z

im finding that vs most chars 15K ar is fine and is hitting fine... i switch to angelics vs a few high def barbs but thats bout it...

i dunno.. i love this gris caddy... i almost feel like its a game screw... it seems to be hitting VERY hard... im doing over 1600 dmg max.. (using lots of max dmg charms) and im owning all chars cept:

smiters
bone necros
some fireball sorcs (that have VERY good tele and fast cast and aiming skills)
tele hammerdins (ie: lameridins) because i cant use that hammer exploit that drake told us about.
VER VERY godly charge bolt zons (i just dont have a wisp or spare Tgods yet and im too lazy to get ripped off in the TCs)

all other chars really dont standa chance really... in fact i go into duel games and sometimes they all end up ganging up on me...

my life is only at 5100 right now because i dont have all the prebuff stuff yet..

thnx
stef

PS
i just duelled a wolf barb using azure wraith and i owned him so bad... im swinging so fast he cant even get hits in... he was begging me to tell him what weapon i use... keke... im not sayin a word ;)

binofury

26-05-2004, 03:34

im finding that vs most chars 15K ar is fine and is hitting fine... i switch to angelics vs a few high def barbs but thats bout it...

i dunno.. i love this gris caddy... i almost feel like its a game screw... it seems to be hitting VERY hard... im doing over 1600 dmg max.. (using lots of max dmg charms) and im owning all chars cept:

smiters
bone necros
some fireball sorcs (that have VERY good tele and fast cast and aiming skills)
tele hammerdins (ie: lameridins) because i cant use that hammer exploit that drake told us about.
VER VERY godly charge bolt zons (i just dont have a wisp or spare Tgods yet and im too lazy to get ripped off in the TCs)

all other chars really dont standa chance really... in fact i go into duel games and sometimes they all end up ganging up on me...

my life is only at 5100 right now because i dont have all the prebuff stuff yet..

thnx
stef

PS
i just duelled a wolf barb using azure wraith and i owned him so bad... im swinging so fast he cant even get hits in... he was begging me to tell him what weapon i use... keke... im not sayin a word ;)

yeh i think the funnest duels are when your cookie cutter botd barbs think they can throw on a wolfhowl and take u out, they laugh at your caddy, they turn wolf, and then they die :p then they are all like wtf im using botd! and i laugh :)

Zero-unit

26-05-2004, 04:37

How very true, I get that alot my self. Fact is you can't become a Wolfbarb less your made a Wolfbarb! Some things will and won't work in WBvWB to their surprise BoTD won't always make their day, heh heh.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

26-05-2004, 05:22

Drake

i think there are a couple things needed in your guide still...

1st) use wizzy spike (or silence) + caddy vs casters (sometimes people forget they can use 2 weapons even in wolf form and wizzy spike or silence runewrod is GREAT anticaster items.. ;)
2nd) duress is the armor of choice... its the best combat armor all around AND is also great vs most casters.
3rd) pvp strategies - i can help with that if you want... all i do is pvp... and i love pvp with this barb :D

let me know what you think

thnx
stef

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

26-05-2004, 20:01

1st) use wizzy spike (or silence) + caddy vs casters (sometimes people forget they can use 2 weapons even in wolf form and wizzy spike or silence runewrod is GREAT anticaster items..

ooooh great idea!!! you are right, that rox against casters :P

silence would be better there, because of the +2 skills, but it's so expensive :S

Zero-unit

26-05-2004, 21:16

I am aware there are some missing parts to this, however remember Duress is a new runeword I made this guide way before them so it can't be helped atm.

About the anti caster idea that is great! but it has a downfall, if you so happen to run out of mana during Feral Rage youll no longer attack with one hand instead youll be using the Wiz spike too until you have the mana to attack as long as mana is not a problem I say definatly (Also I hadn't experimented with many things to begin with so I didn't think of it.).

I feel I'm pretty much set on this guide unless I feel it needs to be remade, in that case if any PvP suggestions are asked I or some one else will come up with a strategy for it, but your help is much appreciated.

Dr@kE~

Snarlin Stef

27-05-2004, 03:05

i never run outa mana when in wolf form... and wizzy spike has some very nice mana bonuses

i think the greatest threat is shifting back to barb form in mid duel... that happens to me every so often ;(

dont forget about the venom ward uniq breast plate to deal with poison mancers and rabies :)

i do have a question...
is there any way to beat smite palas? the only melee pala i ever see anymore is smiters.. i dont think there is a way..

is there a way to beat a decent bone mancer? i can beat newb ones that have no control and dont know what they are doing...

these 2 chars i find so hard..

enigma hammer i just run from ... no way i can use that hammer exploit you told me about when they are telein on me... but your advice did help vs non enigma hammer pala

thnx
stef

Zero-unit

27-05-2004, 04:18

Well, no matter what were kind of powerless versus Necromancers due to their Bone Armor and power irresistable attacks best idea is to be on the speedy side other than that I do not know. For the Smiters I belive I explained a tatic versus it maybey 2-4 pages back it should help you in any case. Hammerdins rank right up to Necros so were kinda powerless versus them as well. As for the deshift in duels usually a good prebuff will prevent it from happening often.

Dr@ke~

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

27-05-2004, 10:59

against lamerdins i would just wait and let THEM get to you instead of them spamming hammers all over teh place and waiting for you to run right into it...

bleuless

27-05-2004, 18:15

Hex

27-05-2004, 18:32

Done.

E z

binofury

28-05-2004, 17:53

nebody got any tactics against smiters? i can seem to take on just about every other build just fine (cept for those tele hammerdins) but smiters r rough to get with our attack :( The only quasi effective tactic ive found is retreating a bit and as they run after u turn and attack, rinse and repeat, but if they have a strong smite u wont last too long. any ideas or strategeries?

Zero-unit

28-05-2004, 20:38

I have some sort of strategy versus them, but it won't guarentee success each time. For these you will wan't the fastest hit recovery a Wolfbarb can acheive since their stun will have you in hit recovery motion each hit so aim for 86% FHR which is the 3 frame break point. Defense won't matter here so a replacment armor for any high defense one you may have would be, "Duress" you could take an advantage of the open wounds against them since their attack is also uninteruptable. Keep the max PDR as posible since their attack is phsyical Stormshield and Verds/Strings covers that or if you have other means of obtaining PDR w/o ss you can use a beneficial weapon since their attack is unblockable as well. Use a fast weapon, they will take you down if they attack long enough so with speed you can stay ahead of their attacks personally I recomend a 120% ias Gris Caddy of course not every one can afford that, so an alternative would be a weapon such as Stormlash (shaeld) or Lightsabre (shaeld) always be faster than their attack or as fast which is a 6 frame smite. Now Paladins have a fair amount of defense to keep aware of, having high AR would solve this problem finally the key to last in a duel with smite would be LIFE! Smite can hurt so having insane amounts of life would be ideal to outlast them. There is a downside to all this though, Paladins with Holyshield will always block 2-4x's faster than we will attack because their block frame is 2 frames. If your oponent has Life tap anywhere in his set up it would be a very dificult fight due to the fact it has an even higher % chance to cast with Smite and they leech back considerable amounts of life. The anoying part of Smite is knockback, this will knock you back each hit and when you come back to attack when hit agian you will be kb'ed eventually turning into a cycle the good part about the kb on Smite is that eventually for teh Smiter to attack he would hafto come to you lowering his defense and block. This is the most recent strategy I have on Smiters, again Smite is probably the most overpowered physical attack. Goodluck.

Dr@kE~

binofury

29-05-2004, 08:39

ok, so after getting schooled by a pitiful smiter for the umpteenth time i decided to have a friend of mine take to the moor to find a solution for us wolfbarbs against em. well i didnt find a way to beat them all the time but i found 2 ways to give us a fighting chance :p

1. Run and turn: Just run off a little from when they attack u itll give them a little space and they will run after u, if u time it right u can get him into at least 1 blocklock or something, u can get a good 6 or so swings in this way effectively.

2. Environment use: One of the big things smite does to us is put our feral rage out of range and by time they are close enough again they are smiting, so that knockback is killer. So when u fight them position urself 1 of two places out in the moor. a) along the bank, try to get them chasing you into the bank so that if they smite u ur already sitting on the bank and cant be knocked back anyfurther thus u can hit them too usually(at least a little) b) better place: retreat into the little holely areas in the moor u cant walk through thisll provide areas to stick ur back up against, as well as u can manuever between these little holes better than them thus u might be able to sneak some hits.

Other than that we are still pretty fubared vs smiters, but at least if we focus on positioning ourselves we will have a fighting chance. :P

lextalionis

29-05-2004, 18:28

I know little about PvP or Smiters, but what about range of your weapon? I mean if they are smiting the most their range can ge is 3. Can you use a two handed weapon and make the range work for you?

binofury

29-05-2004, 19:53

I know little about PvP or Smiters, but what about range of your weapon? I mean if they are smiting the most their range can ge is 3. Can you use a two handed weapon and make the range work for you?

it might help but i think that youd lose too much speed, most smiters have max smite speed of like 6 frames, and a 2 hander would be much slower. Also im not sure of this but once transformed into wolf i dont know that range makes much difference in your attacks anymore since you are using ur claws :p i could be wrong though.

Mule

29-05-2004, 22:07

I've tried with a twohanded, it's quite easy to get it to 9 fpa, which is rather unusual for barbs. Against a smiter it becomes hit 'n run, so basically boils down to your running away at the right time to regroup, and the life you can muster. Pretty obivious 50% PDR helps, getting to 3 frames hit recovery doesn't seem to make any difference to me tho. Often when approcing the smiter or him comming to you, you'll get a single swing at him, if it hits, the real point of being two handed isn't really the range, but the HUGE damage you can dish out. I'm blessed with a BotD ghost spear, so doing almost 7k max, mediocre charms (no dupes at all), swinging at those 9 fpa. Few can take too much of that, and if you hit it's sure he'll go into hit recovery granting you another hit chance. Everything +AR is of course highly recommended due to normal smiters having high (12k+) def.

lextalionis

29-05-2004, 22:13

it might help but i think that youd lose too much speed, most smiters have max smite speed of like 6 frames, and a 2 hander would be much slower. Also im not sure of this but once transformed into wolf i dont know that range makes much difference in your attacks anymore since you are using ur claws :p i could be wrong though.

Range has always made a difference to Werewolf attacks as long as I've known???

Glorious Axe 10 attack speed fast druids, slow for barbs (only 4 range)
Giant Thresher -10 attack speed and very fast druids, normal barbs (5 range)
Mancatcher -20 attack speed and listed as fast for Druids and Barbs (5 range)
------------ old IAS calculator -- Garbads
Glorious Axe 10 fpa -- 7 fpa possible with six shaels in weapon
Giant Thresher 10 fpa -- 6 fpa possible with six shaels in weapon
Mancatcher 13 fpa -- 5 fpa possible with six shaels in weapon

** the first fpa was one I got off an old German Calculator that is probably very outdated. The second I got from using Garbad's calculator which is linked below, it should be more upto date. I was surprised how quick the attacks were myself.

Now I'm not great with the formulas but a six socket Mancatcher cat get quicker than even your smiter by Garbads calculator hitting 5fpa. That's with Range of 5. Now your damage will be less, but if you can keep him knocked back and off you then possibly you can keep yourself out of stunlock.

A BotD Mancatcher can hit 6fpa with a Mancatcher. The Mancatcher is really a very quick weapon for this build. Another thing to know, is that weapons speed is different than Druid weapon speed. So you are looking for weapons that work well for Barbs that have a lot of inherent IAS on the weapon. A mancatcher would be significantly slower for a Druid Werewolf
http://students.washington.edu/akrinke/wereformadvanced.html

binofury

30-05-2004, 05:23

cool nice info, i might have to make a 6 shael mancatcher and see how it does vs a smiter.

On another note tonight i ran into my first d clone ever while doing some fill in quests with my wolfie and i go and spawn him, i wasnt optimistic because of my low damage but i took him on anyway. In the end he was a piece of cake the open wounds and crushing blow took care of him fast, and i leeched so fast that my life never dipped below 90 percent, and my fire res isnt even that good in hell (50ish?) so just so ya know if ya need to kill a d clone wolfy will be there for ya :p

Hex

30-05-2004, 12:34

You need something with prevent monster heal to go smack him. Had you gone back to town he would have healed quite a bit.

binofury

30-05-2004, 13:10

thing was, their was zero need for me to leave i killed him in like 2 or so minutes and no dodging of fire attacks or anything, i just held left click till dead :p worked like a charm even w/o pmh

InfiniteWisdom

01-06-2004, 02:42

lextalionis

01-06-2004, 02:49

Alrighty, well I never really gave this build any thought until I found a WolfHowl a few weeks ago. So I starting building my barb up (only lvl 17 right now..loooong way to go). Anyway, I was just curious, isn't it really annoying to switch out all of that gear to shift and switch it all back. That sounds pretty annoying to me

You only need to do that for serious PvP. Most of the time you'll just pick a setup and run with it. Because youre right its too much time to change out. Although I will say that with my Enchantress, I sorta got into a routine wiht it and it was much better.

[Also, reading back a few pages and just for confirmation, IAS from the weapon only will increase your attack rate when shifted correct? No IAS from gear (gloves, jewel in helm etc..) will increase it?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

This isn't 100% accurate, but its like 95% accurate. If you want to check your setups for breakdowns go to Garbad's Thread in the Druid forum, its stickie and you can find the IAS breakdowns for any character in Were form with any weapon and any amount of IAS. But generally the IAS on your weapon counts so much more that you don't want to worry with off weapon IAS.

InfiniteWisdom

01-06-2004, 21:55

Thank you for the reply...

Another question for ya'll.. how about mana leech, it isn't necessary for this build at all? I know Feral Rage has a low mana consuption, but just curious what everyone is doing about mana.

Also, since you really don't have an attack besides normal attack until lvl 79, what in the world are you doing while leveling up? Just getting the highest damage weapon you can equip to level up with? :scratch:

Thanks

Zero-unit

01-06-2004, 22:14

Well coming from a PvPer I usually never worry about mana becuase of my Angelics ammy. It has the "20% damage goes to mana" mod and I usually get hit in every duel. Battle Orders will give you a decent amount of mana to run with.

About leveling, unfortunatly we don't have a very good way of leveling except you can use some items to substitue along the way. Such as the Passion or Kingslayer runewords, usually for PvM these skills are suitable to use. Other than that its level to 25, baal, and leech your way there.

Dr@kE~

Hex

01-06-2004, 23:12

Well, today was a bad day for me today. I lost 16 consecutive duels to barbs/palas i've owned before. So this leeds me to say this. I will be building a Titan Wolfbarb. Absolutely no vita. I will rely on the brute strength of the build to overpower my foes. But here is my concern: "Will I do decent enough?" That is why I will be testing this on open first to see how I will be doing with the gear I currently have available, or if anyone wants to build this first and let me know.

It will consist of this:

Str: Stacked. This is a titan
Dex: Enough for max block
Vita: None
Energy: None

If anyone has any feed back and wanna let me know how this would work out, let me know please.

Hex

sorcyone

02-06-2004, 03:20

Would a thrower be effective in wolf form ? If you can that would seem ideal with a shield since you can't use any barb attack skills anyway.

Zero-unit

02-06-2004, 03:34

You can't throw in Wereform, the only thing a wolfbarb can do is direct attacks and up close. Though I can imagine how a throw Wolfbarb would be like.

Dr@kE~

lextalionis

02-06-2004, 07:58

Yah, its too bad you can't make a thrower. But only melee attacks will work. If you equip a crossbow, you will be able to attack, but you'll only use the mods off the crossbow. Plus you won't get the benefit of any of the masteries from a Barb. :(

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

04-06-2004, 21:14

i was wondering, how do you guys get max resist? on my old wolfbarb i had a couple of 10% fire and light resist charms, which worked, but i'd rather switch them, as i found/traded for a couple of nice max/ar/life charms which i plan on using on my new wolfbarb (remaking him now :) )

Zero-unit

04-06-2004, 21:27

Well if your fighting casters that's kinda easy. Stick a Wizspike in one hand and main weap on the other, Natural Resist should take care of alot of it and if you have an Annihilus taged along with Gaurdian angel armor it can get 90% all resist without a problem. Now the extra 5% maximum resist is the demanding part. For fire use Hotspurs, the rest you'll need the runes sockteted in your equip.

Now ifyou fight elemental melee thats different, usually they stick to one type of element so in that case get a 4 socketed sheild with either P Rubies, P Saphires, P Topazes, or P Emeralds. Thanks.

Dr@kE~

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

04-06-2004, 21:43

wow quick reply :D

yeah i know about the wiz spike, it's nice :D it also rox on ww barbs vs casters as you can teleport way quicker and you have more mana :P but wolfs cant tele :(

however the problem with the 4 gem shield is that you lose a lot of block, which sux a bit... well, as i mostly duel in pubby's, changing gear around all the time sux, i guess i'll just stick a wizzy in my inventory then. with my normal gear and 17% anni and no res charms i get 25/75/50/25 resists i think, which is ok though, but i always like my resists maxed when dueling :D

IMIJackal

06-06-2004, 10:10

Has anyone seen swordgaurd?

+ (5 Per Character Level) 5-495 Defense (Based On Character Level)
30% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
All Resistances +10-20 (varies)
20% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Increased Chance Of Blocking

this will free up some dex and help alot

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

06-06-2004, 11:55

yeah, it would be pretty godly, however, it lacks some 100 ias to be fast enough :)

Acelll

06-06-2004, 19:50

Ok. So let me get this straight.

Arkaine Is still the better armor?or is Dureess?
Is caddy Still the best Wep? or is Phase blade?

oh and i like to see ur wolf plz , when do u get on?

how much does caddy cost?

IMIJackal

06-06-2004, 22:30

swordgaurd sucks as a weapon but its a cheap way replace a shield
thats what i ment
its like wiz on the other hand
replaces the shield but gives good mods

IMIJackal

06-06-2004, 22:36

swordgaurd sucks as a weapon but its a cheap way replace a shield
thats what i ment
its like wiz on the other hand
replaces the shield but gives good mods

Kleany

07-06-2004, 02:45

hey, ive read and it sounds like gris caddy is the weapon to go with.....is their a sword weapon just as good? kuz before i read that i was working on maxing out sword mastery. also, what mastery do i max out if i decide to go with gris caddy? thanks

Hex

07-06-2004, 14:56

Mace...it even says Mace Class if you read close enough on Griz Caddy.

evil_dead_ash

08-06-2004, 02:04

whats up drake, long time no talk..

InfiniteWisdom

09-06-2004, 07:02

Have a question here about gear,

I plan to use a Stormshield, 'Stone' armor (low str armor), Sould Drainer gloves, Raven Frost for a ring maybe, Angelic Ammy and Ring maybe, not sure about a belt or boots yet. But my real question was the weapon.

I plan to do both PvM and PvP.

I have a Lightsabre and a Baranar's Star I could use. The B.star has a bit more damage and AR, but its a bit slower than the Lightsabre. I also tried out a 'Shaeled' Doom Bringer. The speed was alright, and the damage was a bit higher. I've also got a 'Kingslayer' Phase Blade, which I didn't try out yet.

I don't have the runes to make Breath of the Dying/Beast and I've never found the Grizz Caddy. Basically I'm curious what others have had success with as far as weapons.

Thank you.

Hex

09-06-2004, 17:19

Shael'd Azurewrath does well. Just experiment. When in doubt use a 6 shael phase blade.

InfiniteWisdom

09-06-2004, 20:15

Oh, im on Non-ladder also, so that rules out some things.

I have been experimenting with the 'better' weapons I have. Just looking for thoughts and suggestions others have had luck with. Right now, I am thinking of the Lightsabre for its speed. The ITD is nice for PvM, but when I go PvP my AR might take a hit.

Acelll

11-06-2004, 08:21

Hey. questions...

Man i was dueling this pally.. got him close to death. until he pops with life tap... was wondering if draculs is reallly good.. it gives huge life stealing boost.

evil_dead_ash

11-06-2004, 08:41

use steelrends.. dont go bm..

Kirby Hunter

11-06-2004, 13:03

use steelrends.. dont go bm..
i wish draculs didnt have that life tap casting
its good
+str
AND 25% OPEN WOUNDS T_T

Hex

13-06-2004, 02:35

Considering you do enough damage to get back like 75 or so life per hit, it's not worth it. I do use them for the str though.

Szordrin

18-06-2004, 22:22

I was wondering what would you think about the bear variant? Much "bigger", and it can use the barbarian set. The wolf is very fun to play!

Hex

19-06-2004, 18:13

You lose feral rage and feral rage give you more r/w and some attack/damage. You also lose ALOT of AR.

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

19-06-2004, 18:32

IK set + angelics + mastery gives decent AR i think. you can get massive life though, because of all the life bonuses on the set :D you will be hitting at 9 fpa with 2 shaels in the maul, which is decent imo. and you do quite a lot of dmg because of all the dmg bonuses :D worth a try i guess.

edit: just tested it in sp, it's pretty cool :D 8k AR, 4k-ish dmg, ~6000 life (with 39*20life charms) and you can even get to 8fpa when you socket the armor or helm with an ias jewel according to dragoon's calc. dunno if it's any good pvp, but pvm it's rather wicked :P

Zero-unit

19-06-2004, 21:10

Well I'm back after a long vacation. About the Bearbarian the advantage of it is that youll gain more defense however it has more disadvantages than advantages. They have slow blocking and hit revocery rates, their ias with weapons are similar to a Wolfbarb. You will lose quite a bit of AR like Hex stated. Also ias from any where but your weapon will not be accounted for, its just like that for any wereform unfortunatly. The Bearbarian build is not too far different from a Wolfbarb and they do almost as well in PvP.

Dr@kE~

InfiniteWisdom

20-06-2004, 08:43

:scratch:

Ok, so my wolfbarb is now clvl 81 and does fairly well. I can do solo Hell Baal runs (with only 1 or 2 others in the game) fairly well also. But I have a few questions and concerns.

My current gear set up:
Helm: Wolfhowl of course 343 def
Armor: 'Stone' 1810 def
Gloves: Soul Drainer 135 def
Boots: War Traveler 124 def
Belt: Credendum 114 def
Shield: Stormshield (about 434 def right now i think)

Skills
20 Sword Mastery, 20 Battle Orders, 20 Shout, 20 Iron Skin and about 6 in Natural Resistance.

I'm using a Kingslayer Phase Blade or a Lightsabre for a weapon, have an Angelic Amulet and 2 Rings (put on a Raven Frost now and then) and have 2 Warcry weapons on switch. I plan to get something with +all skills on sometime.

Now my concern, with Shout activated (lvl 32) and that gear above, I only have about 23K defense. My AR is only about 15K also. I've read some others posts on here with over 30K def and over 20K AR and I'm wondering where I've gone wrong here?

I still have about 160 stat points to use which I'm suspecting will all go to Vitality eventually.

Anyway, thanks for any imput you all can provide.

LeTHaL_BaNaNa

20-06-2004, 13:40

i'm afraid 25k+ AR is only available for non-ladder players with their duped 3/20/20's :P which gives at least 5k extra attack rating. also, 'only' 23k def is still way more than most chars have. i myself have 20k def and 20k AR (with angelic amu + 2rings) and find it enough to hit most chars.

you can only get higher def with ethereal armors like eth stone (~3k def) or eth duress (~2.3k def), so if you are on ladder, and can't get any 3/20/20, your AR will not be able to go that high. oh, and for your switch, ultimately, dual hoto's (+6) are the best, but ariocs needle (+4) or mang song's lesson (+5) will also do the trick :)

wolfbarbs are really fun to play imo, as they are able to kill most chars easily, and are quite unique as you don't see many around, though some builds are quite impossible to kill. i;m really having trouble beating blizz sorcs (any sorc in general who tele's a lot :/ ), boners, lamerdins, winddruids and also enigma/botd barbs are tough, as they have loaaads of life :/ killing wolfdruids is fun though :D

InfiniteWisdom

21-06-2004, 02:12

I do play non-ladder, but I only use items I find myself..which means no 3/20/20's for me. The reason why I say only 23K def is because my ironbarb or concentrate barb (don't really like that name) has about 23K def also and only have Iron Skin at about lvl 4 (8 or 9 with items on).

Im actually hurting on the +all skill area because as I've said, I only use items I find, I don't trade, so getting 2 HotO weapons is really hard. The best I could do is a +1 all wand and a Lidless or the +2 Ariocs Needle that I found. Guess I'll have to do some testing there.

Thanks for the imput :)