View Full Version : Should Blizz change item drop rates?
I was considering the "cheating" thread and had a thought that was OT from it.
What would happen if Blizz changed item drops so that elite runes/items were a lot easier to find? Would it be good or bad?
What do you think?
hc_ugajeremy
08-04-2004, 20:31
I think it would take the fun out of finding one. Being spoiled and such.
HAMC8112
08-04-2004, 20:49
I suppose that it would be not bad atall, considering that i want a ber for that Hotothing, my hammerdin would truly be glad. I have been playing this game for close to 2 years now and i never found 1. So somewhat better runedrops would be great.
Not across the board. It would boring if a gold or green item dropped all the time. However, I would like to see the odds of the higher end items dropping come down a bit so that if you played enough you could eventually find one of most of items or runes. As it is most people will never find a real high end rune and this helps create the market for dupes.
TopheavyHookjaw
08-04-2004, 20:57
I'd argue for the opposite. Make elite uniques and sets even harder. Take away the forge quest or at least nerf it a bit and things would be quite different.
Fact is, there are way too many elite runewords, sets and unqiues out there. This in turn causes way too many problems (see previous threads for this).
I'd also like to acknowledge that not everyone is rich (I'm certainly not but I've still managed to fill 2 mules with good elite uniques).
On a side note, I've just played through NM with a char that has 0% MF.
Results:
Uniques = 4 (only one exceptional)
Sets = 6 (only one exceptional)
Decent rares = 6
That is more along the lines of what this game should be like. Hell, with my MF char, I can find that in one day.
skunkbelly
08-04-2004, 20:58
Well, while we're daydreaming about things Blizz will probly never do :)
What I'd like to see, instead of increased drop rates, is more quest-related item rewards. For example, the Nihlathak quest should have a *great* reward, especially considering the danger... what if you could add not a socket but a specific property of your choice to any item? That would be amazing, fun, and people would actually do the quest on NM and hell difficulties ;)
Or how about quests 2,3,4 and 5 in Act 2? There's no reward except for the skill point from Radament in quest 1, and in normal difficulty, the Cube. Every other quest in Act 2 is simply preparation for getting to Act 3. No wonder everyone wants to rush. What if one of those quests could be item related... perhaps a guaranteed unique or set item of a certain quality, or a drop tailored to your character's class.
So that's what I think would improve things. But as they say, if wishes were horses... we'd all start playing Sacred :surprise:
Run drops GUL and under IMO are significantly higher but above that the odds are tremendous and really no place but the countess to focus on them at and that is only up to LO and she is a stingy witch!
As far as the other drops, I think they drop too much already. This isnt all bad, but man I have tons of stuff that is highly usable and high lvl on mules and 15 high lvl characters all dressed to kill and i started Xpac 3 manths after all of you.
Look at how many people have left this game. I only see that trend continuing and really I dont beleive it has a lot to do with the game being old I think it has to do more with it being to easy to get the excellent gear and some of it is due to dupes and all, and then I know some of it has to do with the time it takes to go from 95-99 compared to before.
Itesm accross the board drop too much but runes on the high end still drop very little.
First, the eleite runewords out there all ovr the place have very little to do with the Forge being more rewarding than it use to be it has everything to do with a few punks who got a hold of some high end runes and duped them as much as possible.
Forge gives Guls max in hell, so to make a Ber I believe you need 64 Guls or am I off a bit? Anyway, odds are to craft a BER you have to either in combinations, rush for forges, make characters and get there, rush some there, or trade for them or find a few, but even with that, you ahve well earned that BER.......JAH, ZOD, even more GULs needed and it would take a very long time to accumulate those.
At this point in time, near 6 months since patch there really only should be a small handfull of JAH and ZOD runes and pretty much nobody should of been able to craft or find both without selling thier soul.
Drop rates have nothing to do with runewords and Forges.
God i am damn glad the Forge drops better. I spent 2 years in Xpac befroe Classic and only had one GUL ever drop, like 2-3 LUM, a few Ko and LEM but never and IST or a MAL. I did get a VEX from Pindle once.
Right now you have vrey little due to your move to HC, but in time once you hit Hell, or make Meph NM wish he never lived you will have tons of crap also.
I'd argue for the opposite. Make elite uniques and sets even harder. Take away the forge quest or at least nerf it a bit and things would be quite different.
Fact is, there are way too many elite runewords, sets and unqiues out there. This in turn causes way too many problems (see previous threads for this).
I'd also like to acknowledge that not everyone is rich (I'm certainly not but I've still managed to fill 2 mules with good elite uniques).
On a side note, I've just played through NM with a char that has 0% MF.
Results:
Uniques = 4 (only one exceptional)
Sets = 6 (only one exceptional)
Decent rares = 6
That is more along the lines of what this game should be like. Hell, with my MF char, I can find that in one day.
ConnerMacleod
08-04-2004, 21:15
Wait until they reset the ladder season. I bet they do it at the beginning of summer.
Good lord, sounds like we're waiting for the 1.10 patch again! LOL
The thing about this game is, it's highly addictive and too much fun to play. Items have become easier to locate only because drop rates were already adjusted. See all those sorcs in the channels with Tal Armor on? Games only 6 months old and everyone has a set.
Man, in 1.09 i ran 10-20 times more Meph runs than I have inn 1.10 and in 1.09 I ran tons of Baal runs and very few in 1.10 solo and the drops arent even near comparable.
They upped average mosters potential to drop but left the bosses same or made them better and it screwed it all up. If the bosses whould of been "shut down", no MF for thier kill after quest like it was suppose to be then it would be different.
GOD could you imagine what it sould be like if nobody skipped Baal in thos lvling runs?!?!?! Imagine the tons of stuff that ppl didnt get because he takes too long.
Puts another twist in it doesnt it?
CoonerTheRed
08-04-2004, 22:05
independent of how hard things are to get, there will be those who argue both sides of this. there are those (like stinger) who play this game so often that they can fairly easily get or trade for any item in the game, so they say things should drop less. there are others, like me, who play casually, when we get to it, and wish we had more items, so our characters could be more powerful.
At any rate, i guess i wish things would be more like they used to- uniques/sets as ALMOST unique, and rares being that much more necessary and useful.... but that's just personal preferences...
I suppose that it would be not bad atall, considering that i want a ber for that Hotothing, my hammerdin would truly be glad. I have been playing this game for close to 2 years now and i never found 1. So somewhat better runedrops would be great.
If you are waiting for a Ber rune to drop so that you can make a HotO, may I suggest that you re-check the runewords on arreats... :spy:
TopheavyHookjaw
08-04-2004, 23:52
Good points guys. I didn't know that hellforge could only drop up to Gul...I thought it was much higher.
I think that if Blizzard had just made the change that they promised, things would be much, much better. By this I'm referrring to the promise of making SuperBoss Uber drops happen only when you kill them the first time. Then, just treat them as a regular boss. This would not change the level possibility of the drop, just the chances for better quality.
As for the other Pre-set Bosses, keep them the same, just make them a little tougher. I think they tried to do that with Pindle but I still think that he is pretty much a joke. Remeber when Hephasto was such a bad @ss that nobody (well, a very few at least) would even go near him in Hell. Make the same adjustments for Pindle and we'll see a differnce. Just look at how deadly Nihl is...very few care to tangle with him.
I think runes should be easier to find, or there should be more competent runewords made from the obtainable runes. Passion is great, lionheart is great, crescent moon is great and stone/gloom are great. Most of the rest are pretty ridiculous in terms of obtainablity. I don't need runes dropping from the sky, but I have found ONE ist rune from a monster, and all of my other lum+ runes came from forges. Hellforge IMO doesn't need a nerf, but a boost. Don't drop me one random crap rune, drop me more midlevels to increase the odds of getting something good (or more accurately, decrease the odds of getting a weiner hellforge rune with ALL 8 of my guardians)!
I think that cubing high end runes should be a more tractable problem, and the approach to that should be making midlevel ones drop more frequently.
EDIT: Maybe make nihlathak drop like a super-countess? Drop a good NM-forge class rune every single kill? Not unbalanced IMHO.
Frankly the biggest mistake is what Eldritch and Shenk have turned into. They have got to be the easiest targets in the game and have for a long time. I have a friend that is yanked 4 Shakos out of Shenk and 2 SS of Eldritch and this is with a low MF Java and a solo java smokes those two pack so fast it is sick.
Pindle still drops well, but his minions and himself do hit harder.
bring back MSLE the way it was, that will put some ghosts on the ladder and cull the herd a bit.
Hell, the Countess is a long voyage compared to those three and she squeaks when she walks as tight as she is. Close the RED for Pindle once you kill him wouldnt hurt.
TopheavyHookjaw
09-04-2004, 00:11
Close the RED for Pindle once you kill him wouldnt hurt.
Now there is a great, and very easy to accomplish, idea.
Also, I love the idea of bringing back MSLE
Maybe even the pre-determined aura (not re-rolled by going through TP)
ConnerMacleod
09-04-2004, 00:18
Heh, leave it to Blizzard to have GFraizer overpromise and then their development team underdeliver. All they do when they make those posts is confuse the entire gaming community. It takes rippers and fansites to understand how their game even works because they don't know themselves!
I was PO'd at Blizzard for something else today, now what was it.
OH, I know. Channel names. Anyone ever been to the Hardcore Channel? How about LOD Barbarian Trading? Or Amazon Trading? How many crickets you hear in there? Seems they could have done a much better job of changing them around. Old news I know, but I still just had to get one more "Blizzard sucks because of 'x'" slam in. Call me crazy.
What do you think the impact on botting and duping would be if items dropped more easily? Both would go way down. There's no incentive to bot or dupe if you can find the elite items in a reasonable amount of time.
I understand that my idea of reasonable is different from Stinger's. I don't have a solution for that. However, I think we would agree that fewer botters and dupers would improve bnet.
I think that drops should be changed so that everything drops items that are within 20 or fewer ilevels of the monster level. Hell Baal shouldn't drop isenhardt's case. The Hell Hellforge should only drop the top third of runes. The ratio of magical, rare and unique wouldn't have to change. Just a change to the ilevels that monsters drop would make enough of a difference, I think.
Before 1.10 I had never found an ist rune. I love the hellforge now but still get crappy runes, can u say lum. I play this game alot, and i still dont have the top end items and the ones i do have my friends have given me. I have never found 1 tals armor in my time of playing d2. I have never had a rune above vex. Its the duping that has destroyed this game, if all those enigmas and botds werent so easy to get ahold of then it would be alot better. I agree they need to have more quest related rewards then maybe there wouldn't be so many people pa'ing there way through the game.
I've wasted a lot of time playing d2, as far as blizz messing with drop rates, i say this. Why punish the ppl who game on a casual basis. You have ppl that "exploit" the forge quest (i.e. rush for forge) you also have ppl that game what seems like 24/7. If you feel the drop rates are too high, and you fit the above mentioned play style, simple solution is, dont rush or play less d2
i've never rushed for the forge for two reasons, 1. I just dont like rushing ppl
2. it's not worth it to me to stick my neck out for someone who imo is just plain lazy. The excuse of "dude, i got so many chars, its boring playing through" is all the more reason to cut back the d2 time.
This may not be a lot of time for some of you but i was at one point playing at least 8-10 hrs a day, and playing that long the best runes i found were an ist, gul, and vex (the ist coming from my hell forge) All in all, id say drop rates are fine. D2 was never meant to be a fulltime job anyway.
Just my $0.02.
the best runes i found were an ist, gul, and vex (the ist coming from my hell forge) All in all, id say drop rates are fine. D2 was never meant to be a fulltime job anyway.
Just my $0.02.
I've managed two ladder Hell Hell forges, and I got a Ko and Io for my trouble.
IMO, the current drop rates support either:
1. Duping
2. Botting
3. Just buy it on ebay
4. Play 24/7 (ok I should say play a LOT more than I am willing to)
5. Never get to try any elite items.
Obviously many people on bnet opt for numbers 1-3. I'm resigned to number 5. I know that many people who hang out here fit into number 4. I see that most of the people here want the game harder than it is. They want lower drop rates. They want the game to be a full time job.
I was just curious what people think higher drop rates would change about bnet, and if it would be a good change. I think that lower drop rates and a harder game would either cause even more hacking or a mass exodus. Seeing that Blizz would never set up the game for no one to enjoy... Wouldn't it be more fun on bnet if duping/botting were gone? Would it be worth it if items dropped quite a bit easier, and that's why the change happened?
I play about 5 hours a day during the week, and on the weekend God knows how much but it varrys. I make a new guy almost every other week if not every week and have 15 characters in Act 5 Hell and 2 on the way. i dont play 24/7 but yes I play a lot, but i play less now than I use to and I have already given away more high end stuff in 1.10 than I ever owned in 1.09 in 2 freaking years.
This isnt just luck here, it is pumped drops.
Drop rates being increased wont stop bots or duping, it will only fill the bots faster and give the dupers more perfect items to dupe.
1-4 are all pathetic
5 doesnt have to happen, and eleite items arent needed to succeed in this game.
Toubo(Pg)
09-04-2004, 18:37
i definitly agree with u stinger. i played a lot in 1.09, and never found above gul in cow and um in hellforge (got 1 mal once too) and in comparison i dropped 2 TR plate, 5 storm and 4 shako.
in 1.10 im new since 1 month and a half and well i got lucky for sure, but not only that... 2 days ago i got a ohm (that i trade to a friend doing hellforge/contesse run for 3 days against his 4 um 1 ist 3 gul instead of him cubing them) got a cham yesterday (on this one i know it is not only pumped drop but pure luck too ^^) and droped an ist and mal on hellforge and an um by a monster in nm...
im currently, rune speaking, far richer in 1 month 1/2 than i have been in 2 years of 1.09... i dont think it is too bad... maybe nerfing the possibiliy of running char to hell forge (not nerfing hellforge itself) and creating a good nihlatak drop (a nm run is a good idea...at the same time people would creat nihlatak runners and still mess everyhting up (i would b among them ^^)) would be great...
concerning the unik... it is far more common too now... but if meph would stop dropping after dying once, that would change a lot of things (same for andy and the others of course)
all in all, it is not too bad, and im looking to downgrade my cham (like i did with my ohm ^^) but im playing full legit no MH etc. and i would never trade with somebody i dont know, or even know just a little ^^, because for me,a legit item found with MH, even if i pay a good price for it, is not legit, and my char killing a monster wearing this item becomes not legit too and to a greater extend playing with somebody in the game using MH is not legit too ^^ (im playing passworded almost always, alone or with the ladder runner in the europe realm.
by the way InMemoryToAll got the 2nd 99 HC char this morning (early ^^) cg to him :))
what is ruinning the game is those 99% nonlegit zod jah ber and enigma... making my cham worthless (but to me which is the most important since i dont trade ^^) it is possible to creat a hoto and even a cta playing full legit... but short of that... it is tough, which i feel is normal.
those bot too r awful (bot runner still exists ?? :/ )
that the rust storm cannot detect upped rune is a shame... but the up possibility is really important and brings a true plus to the game...
well the slightest possibility of cheating in those kind of game is the ruin of the economy and the legit players fun, unless they creat well organised guild (which requires a lot of time not everybody wants to invest). so as long as bnet is not secured... do not trade, and promote the legit attitude :)
I play about 5 hours a day during the week, and on the weekend God knows how much but it varrys. I make a new guy almost every other week if not every week and have 15 characters in Act 5 Hell and 2 on the way. i dont play 24/7 but yes I play a lot, but i play less now than I use to and I have already given away more high end stuff in 1.10 than I ever owned in 1.09 in 2 freaking years.
This isnt just luck here, it is pumped drops.
Drop rates being increased wont stop bots or duping, it will only fill the bots faster and give the dupers more perfect items to dupe.
1-4 are all pathetic
5 doesnt have to happen, and eleite items arent needed to succeed in this game.
Stinger, you play as much in one week as I do in TWO MONTHS. Visualize where you were two or three weeks into the patch (ok maybe 1.5, because I'm slow :) ). I'm probably about there right now.
I know that elites aren't needed to succeed. What I'm saying is that they are fun and people want them. If in 6 months of playing I could find some elites, that would be cool to me. I refuse to cheat or buy stuff on ebay, so I most likely won't get any elites. At least I haven't so far. I like mfing, but playing an hour here and there I haven't found much yet.
Oh, and I'm not going to play the game more. I am trying to keep going with my other priorities that seem healthier to me. D2 is a fun diversion though.
The nice thing about better drops is that it would be easier to keep up with botters, for those of you who want to. I still believe that very few people would continue to bot. All the incentives would be gone. Ebay would dry up, because nobody would pay for something they can find fairly easily. Duelling would become more skill-based, rather than a wealthiest wins contest.
If I played that little it would be SP probably, and if i didnt mind botted or illegit stuff I would play nonladder where it is plentiful.
You have made a choice to play only a little and that is great, but *****ing that drops arent good for those that play a little only focuses on a small few.
You want 5 hours a week of play and have IK Barb and Tals sorc and Trangs Necro then go SP and get a character editor and its all taken care of, or go open, but please dont support these dupers, hackers and botters that **** up mine and many other peoples game!
Galtrovan
09-04-2004, 23:01
I play about 5 hours a day during the week, and on the weekend God knows how much but it varrys. I make a new guy almost every other week if not every week and have 15 characters in Act 5 Hell and 2 on the way. i dont play 24/7 but yes I play a lot, but i play less now than I use to and I have already given away more high end stuff in 1.10 than I ever owned in 1.09 in 2 freaking years.
This isnt just luck here, it is pumped drops.
Drop rates being increased wont stop bots or duping, it will only fill the bots faster and give the dupers more perfect items to dupe.
1-4 are all pathetic
5 doesnt have to happen, and eleite items arent needed to succeed in this game.
I have to 100% agree. In 3 months after 1.10 came out, playing on the ladder, I was as rich as I was in 1.09..... to become rich in 1.09 took me 2+ years... 2+ years playing the game as a 2nd full time job
Personally, I like the drops the way they are now. It was nice being able to came back to 1.10, trying things out, play with all the items, and not take so much time trying to get "everything". However, I wouldn't want it any easier to find things than it is now, other than maybe the high-end runes which still never, ever drop.
The point is, Bliz did make most things easier to find. The casual gamer now has a chance to actually some use some of the high-end gear. And for the hard-core 24/7 player, Bliz made the uber rune words to find. If it weren't for all the bots/dupes, the hardcore 24/7 players would still be searching for the runes instead of complaining the drops come too easily.
If I played that little it would be SP probably, and if i didnt mind botted or illegit stuff I would play nonladder where it is plentiful.
You have made a choice to play only a little and that is great, but *****ing that drops arent good for those that play a little only focuses on a small few.
You want 5 hours a week of play and have IK Barb and Tals sorc and Trangs Necro then go SP and get a character editor and its all taken care of, or go open, but please dont support these dupers, hackers and botters that **** up mine and many other peoples game!
I played SP a little when D2 came out. I played a barb and a necro through norm and I was done. I had conquered the game and knew everything about it I wanted to know. Hehe, I knew so little! Bnet really opened things up for me and it's much more entertaining. SP isn't worth playing for me.
So you're saying that the average bnetter plays 35+ hours per week? I highly doubt it. Even kids have homework. College students must study, most people have other things going on.
I think the average bnetter plays 5-10 hours a week, which is why they bot, dupe and buy stuff on ebay.
Think about it. Do you have any reason at all to run a bot? No, because you have too much already. So the people who bot logically play much less than you.
And I'm not supporting dupers :rant: That's makes me want to say some star words at you (****). :lol: I'm just trying to have a debate, not trade insults. The whole thought behind my idea is getting rid of botters/ebay/etc. Is that so difficult to understand? It seems like my words aren't getting through to your brain. :wave:
On a side note, I've just played through NM with a char that has 0% MF.
Results:
Uniques = 4 (only one exceptional)
Sets = 6 (only one exceptional)
Decent rares = 6
That is more along the lines of what this game should be like. Hell, with my MF char, I can find that in one day.
I agree, if blizz removed MF from the game, noone would think items are too easy to find.
Its hard to say if people would still play though, since many players mainly play for MF reasons.
Toubo(Pg)
10-04-2004, 15:31
diablo 1 was massively played... without mf :)
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