n00b Question, and I bet you know what it's gonna be.

[Voldomort]

Which is better, Werewolf, or Werebear?

I speak of 1.10 PvM all the way through hell. What are the disadvantages/advantages of each, and how do they do with crowd control? I'd love to see some builds and take suggestions.

I have only played with Necro and Barb, I have always been really interested in druids, and decided to make one. Are the Were forms the best route to go for the druid? Are they effective in hell? Does one outclass the other? Is one very equipment intensive? Cookie cutter and personalized builds would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. :thanks:

[Voldomort]

Also, how should I allocate my stat points for each were form respecively?

[ƒenris]

God dude..I get so tired of this day after day.
Read some guides! There's great info to be collected, chances are when reading you will find a build you like, and you can do that, if not you will have the info you need.
Wolf/Bear is even, bear being a bit harder to gear because you need fast weapons.

[Voldomort]

God dude..I get so tired of this day after day.
Read some guides! There's great info to be collected, chances are when reading you will find a build you like, and you can do that, if not you will have the info you need.
Wolf/Bear is even, bear being a bit harder to gear because you need fast weapons.
Oh, I don't mean to waste you valuable time. I didn't realize these boards were here solely for your amusement. I'll try and remember to read your mind from now on so I know what your tired of, ok? Anyway...

So, you saying wolf is better? When is the last time you tried to sort through the guides on this site? They're a bit long and convoluted.

I have a simple question, which one is better, wolf or bear, and why? No one seem to want to touch this quesion in their guides for some unapparent reason. Now, you could save me a lot of time by giving me a cookie cutter guide for a Werewolf(which I know you have) or I could spend several wasted playing hours trying to decipher guide after boring guide of mindnumbing numbers and calculators. Arg! Now, my question(questions rather, stick with me on this) again, Wolf, or bear? Build? Were Vs Elemental? Were Vs Summons? Thank you?

And I'll tell you what, next time someone asks this, just bump this topic.

If you don't feel like replying, you could just link me to one of the many other posts on this board that explains all of these questions. I can't seem to find them easily. Perhaps it's my extremely slow connection that keeps me from checking those 20 plus pages, but it also could be laziness. Thank you.

[TheGreatStickels]

I like wolf better, but it basically comes down to preferance.

read a couple guides, try both, and see which you like more.

[Voldomort]

I, too, like wolf better, but solely for roleplaying reasons. Thank you.

I know this is a RPG, and I should do what I feel is best, but those roleplaying reasons aren't going to get me very far in hell.

I'm assuming you max Lycanthropy and WW, of course, and max the level thirty attack(I forget the name). That doesn't leave too many points. Should I put a point in Dire Wolf, or Bear, and should I put any points into the life spirit spell(again, I forget, n00b to Druid, and semi-n00b to DII if that helps anyone)?

Cookie cutter build PvM Werewolf, anyone? I don't need to hear about weapons, I just want stat point allocation, and ending skill points. It would be nice for hints on when to invest, but I ask too much. Now, I know on the Necro board, people are only too willing to throw out any and all of their builds, and they do this constantly. Can't I get 1 Werewolf build posted here, on principle?

[amishamigo]

Cookie cutter build PvM Werewolf, anyone? I don't need to hear about weapons, I just want stat point allocation, and ending skill points. It would be nice for hints on when to invest, but I ask too much. Now, I know on the Necro board, people are only too willing to throw out any and all of their builds, and they do this constantly. Can't I get 1 Werewolf build posted here, on principle?

What fenris meant is that you're either too dumb or too blind to see this thread

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=129178

STICKED AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM with the title

PLEASE READ FIRST: Druid PvM and PvP Guides -- Updated 14 Mar 04


Hmm, "please read first" Are they trying to hint at something..... who knows.

[proudfoot]

What fenris meant is that you're either too dumb or too blind to see this thread

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=129178

STICKED AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM with the title

PLEASE READ FIRST: Druid PvM and PvP Guides -- Updated 14 Mar 04


Hmm, "please read first" Are they trying to hint at something..... who knows.
And what Voldomort said is that the guides are long and convoluted... Suggesting that he looked at them but found it difficult to locate the answers he desired. So either friendly yourselves up a little or... something else.

Wolf vs. Bear is one of those big debates that comes up every once in a while around here. The general concensus is that Wolves are easier to begin with, and are great characters, but Bears have amazing crowd control and win out in the cool factor.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but Wolves are easier to figure out, and Bears are more for those who have a little more experience.

Good luck!!

[TheGreatStickels]

Cookie cutter build PvM Werewolf, anyone? I don't need to hear about weapons, I just want stat point allocation, and ending skill points. It would be nice for hints on when to invest, but I ask too much. Now, I know on the Necro board, people are only too willing to throw out any and all of their builds, and they do this constantly. Can't I get 1 Werewolf build posted here, on principle?

Maxed WereWolf, Lycanthropy, and Fury... the obvious ones

Feral Rage is also a commonly used Wolf skill, then a spirit, usually either Oak Sage - extra life, or Heart of Wolverine - more damage & AR.

after that its more up to you, Grizzly is allways handy, and a generally good skill to invest in once everything else is maxed. Carrion Vine is good for regaining life without having to worry about potions and whatnot all the time.

as far as stats go, Strength and Vitality are key, this is for PvM so Werewolf and Fury should be able to take care of all your AR problems without you having to invest much, or at all, in Dex, and Energy is not something to worry over.

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Go with a rabies/fury wolf.

Wolves are far superior to bears for the simple fact that its easier to get reasonable speeds (especially on a budget), wolfves have better ar, both do comparable damage, and wolf attacks are simply better than thier bear counterpart.

Lets compare (both can use fireclaws/hunger and all summons, arm, so I ignore them):

WW vs Bear
ar and ias vs defense, dmg and life

The reality is bears and wolves have very similar ed% (add werebear ed% and maul and compare to fury) so bears don't really do more dmg, they simply attack slower for the same damage.

Bears have a very, very small life boost over wolves but it is almost completely meaningless due to 2 life per vita point. Bears are also forced to use How while wolves can choose to use oak, meaning wolves can get more life if they choose and be more party friendly.

Bears defense advantage really doesn't help much unless you have a very high end armor, and even then its not critical.

Wolves AR means more gear/skill versiatility and the IAS means you don't have to endure the painfully slow bear attack (gogo 20 frame base? wth?) until you can afford/find one of the like 3 weapons a bear can use and not attack slower than a chilled zombie.


Fury
autotarget (a must pvp, saves mindless clicking pvm)

Feral
Leech is nice, very handy to charge as you fury

Rabies
Good for crowd damage, only real hybrid SS skill

vs

Maul
effective, but slow and tedious, poor vs herds, lower dmg if uncharged

Shockwave
Horrible damage, stun is good in teams, less effective 1v1

And btw fenris, if you yell at another person posting in our forum I will ban you. If you dont like the thread, DON'T POST.

Garbad

[mepersoner]

And btw fenris, if you yell at another person posting in our forum I will ban you. If you dont like the thread, DON'T POST.

Be nice Fenris. :P

Overall I like wolves best, they just have nearly everything going for them. Bears win out in defense, but many many monsters use attacks that ignore defense anyways.

Wolves are better in most other aspects, save 1. Which is shockwave, this is probably the single best defensive p v m skill in the game and only bears have access too it.

Otherwise go wolf all the way.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Voice]

Bears are better for the tanking (not getting killed) aspect of the game but wolves usually kill faster b/c they got the fury which attacks mulitple targets and have greater speed (save the almight pb which doesnt do enough damage in pvm). So it all depends on whether you want to kill fast or just not die as much IMO.

[mepersoner]

Bears are better for the tanking (not getting killed) aspect of the game but wolves usually kill faster b/c they got the fury which attacks mulitple targets and have greater speed (save the almight pb which doesnt do enough damage in pvm). So it all depends on whether you want to kill fast or just not die as much IMO.
I disagree, with feral rage and faster block rate/FHR I think wolves do a better job of surviving while tanking.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Voldomort]

What fenris meant is that you're either too dumb or too blind to see this thread

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=129178

STICKED AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM with the title

PLEASE READ FIRST: Druid PvM and PvP Guides -- Updated 14 Mar 04


Hmm, "please read first" Are they trying to hint at something..... who knows.
Yes, I completely read through all the Werewolf guides before I posted here. They are really of little help, compared to the specific advice of a seasoned player. I'm not blind, nor dumb(if I do say so myself), I just lack experience. If Psychology were something I gave credit to, I would say you were upset that I was slightly short with your rude friend. Well, you'll forgive me if I do the same to you, if you want a flame war look elsewhere(though I seriously doubt you would post more than once after I got started :P). Now please, lets represent our boards with the upmost respect, shall we?

To the rest of you, I sincerely thank you for your advice, and I have decided to go with a Werewolf build, and soon(tomorrow) I will post the build I've decided to go with up here. All comments are greatly appreciated.

And I would especially like to thank those of you who stood up for me when the flames started flying. I am virtually unknown on these boards. That shows a lot of character. Now let me get back to my Were(Flowdlok, read it backwards). I'm startin' to feel like I'm running for office. Later.
:howdy:

[Voice]

If your a bear and your tanking ..... all you need to do is shockwave maul shockwave maul and w/ the + life and + def you get from being a bear .... i would say you do much better. I die much much less on a bear b/c of this .... if you get in a tight spot ... shockwave ..... and your out of it more or less. ...... whats a better tank than that?

[mepersoner]

I already said shockwave is the best defensive weapon in the game, so I can't really argue that. ;) But if you keep feral going you tend to be pretty unkillable.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Voice]

yea i agree both are great for tanks ... and w/ feral and decent resist ww are a really good tank ... i just found that i died less w/ my bear than i did w/ my wolf thats why i think bears are better tanks ..... personal experience i guess. But both are definitly great options if you want to tank .... i would say preference really.

[Icarus]

Bears look cooler :o

[Asheron]

Bears look cooler :o

Damn right.

Go for a sexy huggable bear solely based on coolness. :flip:

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Bears are much cooler, its a fact. And as we all know, size matters.

Shockwave is pretty overrated imho though. True, its extremely strong in the right situation but most untwinked druids simply won't have good enough gear to be good at melee and improve cast rate. This means the average bear will take 16 frames to stun for only 1.6 seconds (34 frames).

If you assume the bear has relatively low (untwinked) attack speed, such as about 11 frames (which would be about a -10 sword of swiftness with 20% ias on gear) he only gets two swings in TOPS before he has to restun the pack. Just not that viable.

Garbad

[Voice]

This is true that for single player shockwave can be a pain if untwinked b/c of lack of fcr. However if your playing on bnet and group play, many people will love you if you only shockwave and dont maul b/c that means almost no one is taking damage while they are dealing the damage and you are being defensive. But yes untwinked shockwave is a bit of a pain. Btw if your twinked even just a lil bit your gonna want a shael'ed ribcracker as a weapon from up to around lvl 60+ maybe longer on both builds.

[sir goatscelot]

Voldomort is new to the game guys. Don't flame. As many people here have said, don't post if you don't want to. We need new people to keep these forums going as well as the game itself. Don't take the joy out the game just because you feel the need to vent.

As to the choice between WW, WB. Bears are just cooler lol :)

[ƒenris]

I'm not flaming or yelling. :thumbsup:
I think it's perfectly fair to ask someone to read guides that say PLEASE READ FIRST in caps before they ask questions, and the guides aren't that long, or even look through the other threads that have the bear vs. wolf debate and such, and in a day there's going to be another thread 'tell me exactly how to make my druid' etc etc. -_-

An idea would be to make a post, with just the names and stat/skill/items and a small summary for different build, an example would be.

Fury Wolf
Str - Enough for gear
Dex - Enough for gear/base
Vita - All the rest
Energy - none

20 Lycanthropy
20 Werewolf
20 Fury
20 Heart of Wolverine/Oak
1 Bear
1 Into your vine of choice
Rest into Feral Rage

Items
Bstar, BoTD zerk, BoTD great poleaxe, Gris caddy with 3x ed/ias jewels, and a Lo

Leviathan, CoH, Enigma, Shaft

Stormshield

Verdungo's, String of Ears, etc

Gore Rider, War Traveler, any elite unique boot

Bloodfist, Soul Drainers, Dracul's Grasp, Laying of Hands

Vamp Gaze, Crown of Ages, Shako

Raven Frosts, or 1 leech ring

Highlord's Wrath




This would save a lot of time if people would bother to read it, but I doubt they would. :clap:

[proudfoot]

That's kind of like the 76Legit mini-guides I tried to get going back in the day. No one ever picked up on the idea though.

For PvM, Wolves are usually better. PvP is another story, with 4 frame Fire Claws for Bears being a great weapon. Wolves, in the end, probably win out there as well, however.