Rabies and Fireclaws blockability Plus summon prebuffing

[mepersoner]

First test:

Level 77 werebear using fireclaws (5100 AR) vs. level 71 unshifted druid using whistans (75% block, 194 defense) and no other gear. Out of 21 attacks, 14 missed.

Same werebear vs. the same druid. This time, the druid uses gloves with 197 defense. Out of 10 attacks, 0 missed.

Conclusion: Fireclaws is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking.

Second test:
Level 85 werewolf using rabies vs. the druid above using whistans.
Out of 25 attacks, 20 missed.
Level 85 werewolf using vs. the above druid using the gloves, 2 out of 20 attacks missed.

Conclusion: Rabies is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking. When it DOES show the animation for blocking, the poison damage for rabies still hits.

Test #3:
The above druid using no gear (no gloves, no whistans).

Level 11 spirit wolf. His attacks did the following damage:
4
3
4
3
4
4
3
4
I then took off 6 + skills. The wolf had still been prebuffed at level 11, I took off gear until spirit wolves were level 5. The spirit wolf did the following damage:
2
1
2
1
2
1
1
1
1
Conclusion: Prebuffing wolves doesn't work. I've run this test in 1.09 with grizzly and had the same results. So it's pretty definite down the line for wolves and the bear. You can't prebuff them for extra damage.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[~Kazama Fury~]

hmmm, i am glad you've finally done your own testing because you didnt believe me when i said both were blockable just cause you guys were always counting on the block animation and sound. anyways, theres no point in playing the "i told you so" game, your results came up the same as mine when i tested it a few months ago. so yeah. made d2 druid 1.10 history.

[mepersoner]

I always just said "we need more testing with less variables." :P

Well, I said that after you brought up the results you had, before that I was just saying they were unblockable. :P

Of course, it's good to know I was right about the summons.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Kirsty]

I did a raven test.
Level 1 raven using +4 skills.
I put on all 5 skills and summoned 5 ravens. Then I removed my +skills gear and the ravens stayed... so you can have 5 ravens as a prebuff (if that can be considered a prebuff anyway).
Now for the amount of hits tests.

Test 1a: level 1 raven summoned should give 12 attacks.
9 hits and 3 misses
8 hits and 4 misses
9 hits and 3 misses

Test 1b: level 3 raven summoned with +skills kept on should give 14 hits.
12 hits and 2 misses
11 hits and 3 misses
13 hits and 1 misses

Test 1c: level 5 raven summoned with +skills kept on should give 16 hits.
12 hits and 4 misses
10 hits and 6 misses
13 hits and 3 misses


Test 2: level 3 raven summoned with +skills removed should give only 12 hits if prebuff doesn't work, should give 14 hits if prebuff does work.
13 hits and 1 miss
12 hits and 2 misses
10 hits and 4 misses

Seems prebuff works

Test 3: level 5 raven summoned with +skills removed should give only 12 hits if prebuff doesn't work, should give 16 hits if prebuff does work.

13 hits and 1 miss
12 hits and 2 misses
16 hits

Very strange, doesn't seem to work at all times but sometimes only gives half of the prebuff. Why is this appearing?

Test 5: level 10 raven summoned with +skills removed should give 21 hits.

21 hits
20 hits and 1 miss
18 hits and 3 misses

Very strange. so I retested and retested and added criteria....
The final conclusion seemed to be that raven prebuff in town and removal of +skills seems to keep the buffs (maximum amount of hits and chance to blind as well), whereas removal of +skills outside of town seems to destroy the buffs (maximum amount of hits but seemingly not the chance to blind) or partial buffs.
The amount of ravens you have never die out unless they reach the maximum amount of hits.

Can someone confirm this or am I weirding out here? Maybe it means revision of the wolf/grizzly findings as well.

[Cantos]

hmmm, i am glad you've finally done your own testing because you didnt believe me when i said both were blockable just cause you guys were always counting on the block animation and sound. anyways, theres no point in playing the "i told you so" game, your results came up the same as mine when i tested it a few months ago. so yeah. made d2 druid 1.10 history.

I'm going insane. I was smacking pansy's mean pala yesterday with fireclaws. I'm sure I saw some blocking animations ...

[Ash Housewares]

how does prebuffing affect the passive bonuses?

[~Kazama Fury~]

I'm going insane. I was smacking pansy's mean pala yesterday with fireclaws. I'm sure I saw some blocking animations ...
doing that against a pally, for blocking testing purposes wouldnt be a good idea, but i know what ya mean. :)

well dueling pansy's pala, u dont really know if uve actually hit or not with all his gumpy slide and desync galore.

[Strid]

I'm going insane. I was smacking pansy's mean pala yesterday with fireclaws. I'm sure I saw some blocking animations ...
If you run out of mana, then you will attack with the standard attack, thus causing blocking 75% of the time.

[mepersoner]

If you run out of mana, then you will attack with the standard attack, thus causing blocking 75% of the time.
You didn't read the first post, I can tell!

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Strid]

They don't do that on Europe!!! :P

[Voice]

The amount of ravens you have never die out unless they reach the maximum amount of hits.



Well ravens can be killed by stuff like sorce's ice armor . im not sure what else but i know sorces cold armor kills them.

[mepersoner]

I believe thorns and damage returned can also kill them IIRC.

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Pent]

is that really what is the important question here? ;)

[Kirsty]

yes, all damage to attacker mods can hurt ravens but that wasn't the real point, just a nice addition.
If you summon 5 ravens and remove the +skills the only thing that will kill them off is if they have done all their hits or if you recast a level of the raven skill that sets a maximum below the amount of ravens you have already flying around.

So if you set the raven level to 5 using +4skills you can cast 5 ravens, removing +4 skills will keep the ravens.
If you recast a level 1 raven the other 5 disappear (1 disappears because you recast, the others because your current raven level has a maximum of 1, which is the one you recast). You'l have 1 raven on the field.

Another example is that if you set the raven level to 5 using +skills and cast 5 ravens, removing +2 skills will again keep the ravens. If you recast with the remaining raven level of 3 then 3 ravens disappear, 2 stay and the 3rd that is allowed is recasted by you. You'll have 3 ravens on the field.

Now.. time to do my dodgy tests again.


PS: minor note. If you have 0 points in raven and the skill is given by your druid pelt then all cast ravens will die when you level up. Same with other summons if I recall that correctly.

[electricblue]

First test:

Level 77 werebear using fireclaws (5100 AR) vs. level 71 unshifted druid using whistans (75% block, 194 defense) and no other gear. Out of 21 attacks, 14 missed.

Same werebear vs. the same druid. This time, the druid uses gloves with 197 defense. Out of 10 attacks, 0 missed.

Conclusion: Fireclaws is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking.

Second test:
Level 85 werewolf using rabies vs. the druid above using whistans.
Out of 25 attacks, 20 missed.
Level 85 werewolf using vs. the above druid using the gloves, 2 out of 20 attacks missed.

Conclusion: Rabies is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking. When it DOES show the animation for blocking, the poison damage for rabies still hits.


i am getting the impression that you guys don't heed what i say or read what is written in my guide.

http://www.geocities.com/welett/attckfind.htm

its been quite some time since i published this..

[mepersoner]

That wasn't there when I read it, I don't check for updates on a regular basis. :P Then again, yours doesn't really provide any numbers either. O-o

This has been something everyone has considered a possibility for awhile now because it was brought up by Kaz (before you) and I said I'd test it, and then I finally did. :P


-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[electricblue]

That wasn't there when I read it, I don't check for updates on a regular basis. :P Then again, yours doesn't really provide any numbers either. O-o

This has been something everyone has considered a possibility for awhile now because it was brought up by Kaz (before you) and I said I'd test it, and then I finally did. :P


-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

ah, ok then :)

a note:
after kaz brought this subject, I had put my findings about a week later, so I think its been 2 months since I publish this?

an advise: read my guide with updates :)

[Kirsty]

Raven retest... Iffy results.

level 1: 12 hits
level 2: 13 hits
level 3: 14 hits
level 4: 15 hits
level 5: 16 hits

Tested on:
- act 1 carver packs
- act 1 skeleton archers
- act 1 fleshhunters

Used: base level raven of 1. Increased/decreased effective level using a +2 summon amulet and a +2 summon circlet

The overall consensus is that ravens are prebuffed and stay that way....
However, you can see a lot of strange unbuffing, partial buffing and postbuffing going on which I thought could be explained by ravens adjusting to their current level over time or by consistent miscounting.

I redid the tests after a prolonged waiting period (5 minutes) to see if skill readjustment of the raven took place, but I didn't see many readjustments after all (20 tests, 2 observed adjustments and 1 partial adjustment).

I did every test in duplicate using several criteria and in the end I got sick of the inconsistency and let my boyfriend do the same tests to see if it was truly caused by me or by the game. His results are equally strange.
See below... does anyone have an idea of what's going on?

cast in town

removed in town removed out of town added in town added out of town

+2 amulet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
3->1 13/1 12/2 1->3 11/1 11/1
3->1 13/1 11/3 1->3 8/4 13/1*

bf
3->1 12/2 11/1* 1->3 12/2* 10/2
3->1 12/2 11/3 1->3 12/2* 11/1

+2 amulet +2circlet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->1 12/2** 13/3 1->5 14/0** 11/1
5->1 12/2** 14/2 1->5 9/3 11/3**

bf
5->1 14/0** 12/4 1->5 10/2 12/0
5->1 11/3** 14/2 1->5 12/0 16/0*
!?!?!

+2 circlet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->3 14/0* 12/4 3->5 11/3 11/3
5->3 16/0 13/3 3->5 13/1 14/2*

bf
5->3 14/2 15/1 3->5 16/0* 15/0**
5->3 14/1** 13/3 3->5 9/5 8/6

+2 amulet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->3 13/1* 13/3 3->5 14/2* 13/1
5->3 15/0** 11/3* 3->5 13/1 12/2

bf
5->3 15/1 12/2* 3->5 14/0 16/0*
5->3 14/2 12/4 3->5 12/2 14/0

*=unbuff *=unbuff *=postbuff *=postbuff
**=partial **=partial **=partial **=partial


cast out of town

removed in town removed out of town added in town added out of town

+2 amulet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
3->1 12/2 11/1* 1->3 9/3 11/1
3->1 11/3 12/2 1->3 9/3 12/0

bf
3->1 14/0 13/1 1->3 11/1 11/1
3->1 12/2 12/0* 1->3 10/2 12/2*

+2 amulet +2circlet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->1 14/0** 11/3** 1->5 12/2** 11/1
5->1 14/2 11/1* 1->5 12/4 11/1

bf
5->1 12/2** 13/3 1->5 14/0** 7/5
5->1 14/2 11/5 1->5 12/4* 12/0

+2 circlet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->3 14/2 12/4 3->5 12/3** 11/5*
5->3 13/3 15/1 3->5 15/1* 14/0

bf
5->3 14/0* 13/3 3->5 15/1* 14/2*
5->3 12/4 14/2 3->5 13/1 14/0

+2 amulet
lvl hit/miss hit/miss lvl hit/miss hit/miss
5->3 13/3 12/2* 3->5 13/3* 12/2
5->3 14/0* 13/2** 3->5 13/3* 14/2*

bf
5->3 14/0* 14/2 3->5 12/2 14/0
5->3 13/1* 16/0 3->5 14/0 11/3

*=unbuff *=unbuff *=postbuff *=postbuff
**=partial **=partial **=partial **=partial

[FenrisWulf]

@Kirsty:
Considering that you completely dominated my tests in volume, I'll defer to your results. :) Though they don't make much sense to me, either...

I'll play around with it some more. I seem to recall (from when I was playing around with Summons when 1.10 first came out) that there was some delay before Summon removal (when you dropped +skills) would take effect, so you could be right that there's simply a funny timing issue going on, or perhaps some event that triggers a Summon check that isn't immediately obvious.

[mepersoner]

Nice weird results. :/

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[proudfoot]

The delay is gone in the patch, I think. Other delays are, anyways, such as spirit auras after they die. Might be different.

Nice testing, Mep and Kirsty. Should stick that up on the web somewhere to refer to. Or at least in a sticky. I could host a page with info like that if needed, but I doubt it is needed.

Anyway, good job.

[Kirsty]

Good job? That's rather relative... I'm disappointed with the blabber I got. I wanted clean results. :(

[proudfoot]

Um, good effort then? :p :)

[Kirsty]

a very mildly acceptable effort.

[Salo]

a very mildly acceptable effort.


well, im willing on uswest to give these things a huge test

like buffing with 25 skills and then remove it all in blood moor.
yeah i have the gear for 25 summons skills. when mang song's comes home to nonlad, ill have 26.

rare helm one day with +2 all +3 grizzly, creeper and dire :) one day :) for a nice 48th level bear.

think thatd be max im assuming.

anyways, im willing to test on uswest non ladder with someone.

i think the difference between a 20 level bear and a 43 should be seen in a few seconds even in pvp situation. just need a partner.

*glimmer in eyes, sighs, Kirsty...*

[mepersoner]

Kirsty the European?


The sexy mepersoner can test with you. *poses*

*blows kiss*

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

[Kirsty]

I'm on east now too..... but I haven't got any druid set up (shame on me?) nor amazon for that matter.

[Salo]

Kirsty the European?


The sexy mepersoner can test with you. *poses*

*blows kiss*

-Mepersoner, Furry Admin

:(

well ok.

when are you around?
bnet name is *pontifs_revenge USWest non lad

---------

I should give Kirsty a rush or something to go to west :)

[Sim.The.GoSu]

I should give Kirsty a rush or something to go to west :)

She barely started on East.

[Salo]

She barely started on East.

bah, no excuse

[Strid]

Kirsty and mepersoner: If you want to test something, you can always use my account. I'm not playing all that much at the moment.