View Full Version : PKing
TopheavyHookjaw
18-03-2004, 00:47
Now this is an issue that I am fairly familiar with. After years of debate and countless posts (both read and written) I have come to one conclusion.
It is all a matter of consent. If two people consent to fight, then it is just that, a fight. If one person does not consent, then it is assault or worse (depending upon the results).
If a person is just playing a game and is hositled and killed through some lamer trigger hack or other exploit, it is not consentual and should not be acceptable (Blizzard has made an attempt to limit this...although I personally think they could have done a better job). If on the other hand, a person is playing in a game and is hostiled but remains in the game to interact with the PK, then it is consentual and everything is fair.
Now some may argue that just by being in a public game makes it consentual. I would have to disagree. That would be the same as saying that by stepping out the front door makes it acceptable for somebody to come up and assault me without provocation or warning. However, if that person pushes me and I push back and the actions lead to a knock-down, drag-out brawl...this is consentual and acceptable.
As for my personal perspective. PKing people through hacks and exploits are about a low as you can go. Talk about the epitimy of a malicious act...why not just mug grandma while you're at it? However, PKing through legitimate hunting is part of the game. While I don't condone the actions I can understand the challenge and the thrill. If you don't like PKing, don't play public games with people you don't know or just TP out when hostiled.
On an even more personal note.. Believe me, I can understand the pain of loosing a high level character with really good equipment to a lamer (druid drop hack comes to mind). It sucks and I would personally punch the person's lights out for doing it to me (if only I could). I know, not mature, but it would definately feel real good. Being hunted, while initially scary, can be kinda fun. For example, one time a stupid, cocky, pre -res 1.10 hydra sorc tried to kill my then 95% res/fire absorb pali and then got sloppy going after the ears of the other two people who died in the game...might merc with cruel war pike and my fantacism aura killed her in one jab. :lol:
Just my 0.02$
BtK-radth
18-03-2004, 01:35
so i says to maybel i says...
Unholy_VI
18-03-2004, 07:05
Now this is an issue that I am fairly familiar with. After years of debate and countless posts (both read and written) I have come to one conclusion.
Years of being a PKer in numerous online games have led me to one conclusion too:
People will always cry about PKers having no morals.
They will do this as they mule their duped SOJs make hundreds of MF runs using their Maphack so there is absolutely no danger to their char.
They will do this as they tell you graphicaly all about the physical violence they would do to a PKer if they ever met one face to face.
they will become indignantly enraged if you point out to them that the ability to playerkill is a FEATURE of the game THEY bought and THEY play. And that there are many othr games out there that you can buy if you dont like PK.
My feeling is this:
about 25% of the people play the game straight and don't cheat if they know a way to do it. Most of these if they get pk'd pick themselves up, dust themselves off and learn from it. Becuase of this they are good players and rearely get PKd other than a hack.
The rest, who cares? I hope I kill all their lame chars and send them packing to softcore or to a different game
Blizzard all but destroyed Legit PK with this ridiculous 10 second WP timer. so the peopel who want no pk other than duels pretty much got their wish as its hard to see someone being lame enough not to be able to exit the game within ten sec of being hostiled.
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks. After all I bought the game knowing that PK was a part of it and in a large part I bought the game BECUASE of that fact.
If they are going to turn around now and say 'well, ok you can pk but we'll just make it next to impossible to do it within the rules' I hope this motivates PKers with the know-how to find ways to turn the tables legal or not.
I didnt used to support the hackers becuase all it used to take was a little bit of skill and knowledge of the game to get your PK ears. Now even though I don't and never will cheat, I hope the message gets sent to blizzard:
'PK is part of what we bought this game for, and if you are going to take legit pk away we are going to find another way to do what we bought the game to do.'
Like you say, everything now is essentially a duel. There really is no more PK other than the high level guys lurking around the sewer games. yee-hah. How fun.
CookiesnCream
18-03-2004, 09:01
Years of being a PKer in numerous online games have led me to one conclusion too:
People will always cry about PKers having no morals.
They will do this as they mule their duped SOJs make hundreds of MF runs using their Maphack so there is absolutely no danger to their char.
They will do this as they tell you graphicaly all about the physical violence they would do to a PKer if they ever met one face to face.
they will become indignantly enraged if you point out to them that the ability to playerkill is a FEATURE of the game THEY bought and THEY play. And that there are many othr games out there that you can buy if you dont like PK.
My feeling is this:
about 25% of the people play the game straight and don't cheat if they know a way to do it. Most of these if they get pk'd pick themselves up, dust themselves off and learn from it. Becuase of this they are good players and rearely get PKd other than a hack.
The rest, who cares? I hope I kill all their lame chars and send them packing to softcore or to a different game
Blizzard all but destroyed Legit PK with this ridiculous 10 second WP timer. so the peopel who want no pk other than duels pretty much got their wish as its hard to see someone being lame enough not to be able to exit the game within ten sec of being hostiled.
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks. After all I bought the game knowing that PK was a part of it and in a large part I bought the game BECUASE of that fact.
If they are going to turn around now and say 'well, ok you can pk but we'll just make it next to impossible to do it within the rules' I hope this motivates PKers with the know-how to find ways to turn the tables legal or not.
I didnt used to support the hackers becuase all it used to take was a little bit of skill and knowledge of the game to get your PK ears. Now even though I don't and never will cheat, I hope the message gets sent to blizzard:
'PK is part of what we bought this game for, and if you are going to take legit pk away we are going to find another way to do what we bought the game to do.'
Like you say, everything now is essentially a duel. There really is no more PK other than the high level guys lurking around the sewer games. yee-hah. How fun.
And you know what's funny? When Pkers don't duel. This is an argument most people just touch on, but well over 90% of people who tried to pk me would not fight a good dueler. 5% of pkers would actually accept a duel and back up what they say, the other 95% just sit in town or leave the game after scanning your gear with maphack. Or they'll duel and use chicken hack. Legit PKing is part of the game, but any PKer that can't duel should be the ones who should close their mouths.
People will always cry about PKers having no morals.
And there will always be PKers who refuse to duel and only PK PvMers they know they can kill. Where exactly is the merit in that? Some people like the thrill of the hunt and others like ears. But when a PKer CAN'T or won't duel other PvP chars, they should be the ones who need to close their mouths instead of saying "people will always complain about PKers but its part of the game". So is dueling. and we all know that most of the people who use that phrase don't duel other PvP chars. I've only made one hardcore dueling char and I've had people refuse to duel me. The difference between PK and PvP, is that the PvP is designed to fight others who are PvP. The PK is designed to fight weaker chars: PvMers. The PvMers will put up a weak fight where as PvPer will fight someone else who is PvP rather than a much weaker PvM char. Want an example? Someone made a game titled " 'xxxx' come". (forgot the person's name). Apparently there was pally outside in blood moor and then the person who's name was in the title decided to join the game. They both fought each other and the person who intitially made the game killed the other and the dead guy quickly left the game. I asked why he killed the other char and he responded with "that guy pked my lower lvl character". So dueling char > PK char in a fair fight. Some people can do both, but most can't. That's why they PK instead of PvP. The fact is, when PKers refuse to duel other PvP chars, perhaps they should also go back to softcore as well. Everything is not essentially a duel, a PvP against a PvM is much different against a PvP vs another PvP. But I play public games, and everyone knows how public dueling games are.
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks.
Sorry Unholy_VI, but as far as I am concerned, you have just "shot yourself in the foot" with your statement above.
By approving of cheats and hacks ... your opinion is not worth the trons used to display them.
Regards Syxx
Years of being a PKer in numerous online games have led me to one conclusion too:
People will always cry about PKers having no morals.
They will do this as they mule their duped SOJs make hundreds of MF runs using their Maphack so there is absolutely no danger to their char.
Let's keep in mind, though, that 99% of pkers dupe, mf, and maphack.
so...
Unholy_VI
18-03-2004, 11:20
Let's keep in mind, though, that 99% of pkers dupe, mf, and maphack.
so...
so they are pretty much like the rest of the community. :cheesy:
Unholy_VI
18-03-2004, 11:50
ok to sum up your message if I understand it right....
'If you are out pking you are a lamer if you won't duel a dueler.'
I'm not out to change your mind or anyone elses about that. But you come with a good argument.
Again it come down to the idea of what is the hostile button there for? If I decide to try and kill that level 20 necro with my level 12 paladin does that make me somehow obligated to fight his dueling char or anyone elses?
A Pker is out to get ears, period. When a pker refuses to fight a char built for dueling its not much different than how a pvm player plays. The player doesnt do run after run on a boss that his char is ill equipped to deal with.
No.
He (or she) goes for the ones he feels will give him the best return in items and exp for the least risk of dying.
Same thinking with the pker
If I want to get a stash full of ears whats better, go after a bunch of pvm guys which I've built to be effective against? Or pick fights with people who have optimized their chars just for such battles?
A dueler is out to prove he is the m4d pwn4g3 over your n00bi3 s00k4g3 or whatever. A pker isnt making that claim. hes just trying to get ears. Thats all. so if someone bigger or badder comes in and thinks hes a puss for not fighting, he cares less.
Thats part of the beauty of this game, YOU define winning based on what makes you happy. For some its having the uber l33t high-end items or the perfect build or a level 99, or a rep as an elite dueler. To me its about having fun and getting ears. I don't have the time or patience to build up a perfect dueling char and I dont really care that there are people out there who can hand me my rear end. I've lost my share of fights in this game and so what? I've won a bunch too! :winner:
Let's keep in mind, though, that 99% of pkers dupe, mf, and maphack.
so...
Good that I am one of the 1% then!
PK as you see fit, but if you cheat you suck at it.
SonOfRah
18-03-2004, 12:53
Good that I am one of the 1% then!
PK as you see fit, but if you cheat you suck at it.
Claps :)
And Unholy........I'd like to see how that length is one conclusion.....looked to me that that was a heap of conclusions *GRIN*
terrymanning
18-03-2004, 16:59
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks. After all I bought the game knowing that PK was a part of it and in a large part I bought the game BECUASE of that fact.
You guys crack me up. The very first argument all of the PK-ers use is:
Blizzard intended PvP to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
Well kids, that logic has a double edge to it.
Blizzard intended the ten-second hostile delay to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
So you guys run off at the mouth about how you deserve to be able to PK someone and you'll do what ever it takes, including cheating, to do it. All the time complaining about chicken hack users and whining like a little girl.
The very second you bypass the, Blizzard intended, ten second hostile delay and then complain about anyone else cheating, you become a run-of-the-mill, dime-a-dozen hypocrite.
If you can’t play the game within the rules, it’s definitely time to find another game. And if you have to cheat at a game to feel a sense of accomplishment, you have bigger problems than cheating at a game.
TM
hehe, people that have to cheat to "enjoy" the game are about as low as you can go. PKs are here and they are here to stay.
there is nothing anyone can do to change that.
besides, if your smart, as a previous poster said, you will NOT lose your ear. if they hostile and your in a baal run or sewer etc etc eather TP to town and wate them out or just save/exit. the only time i can immagine this not working is if your right close to the WP and they come bareling down on you.
simply put...play smart, its what hard core is all about. if you dont play smart then that PK just hastened the inevitable. heck, if you want to be a twisted oaf then you could say that meph is a great PK, or even more so the monsters before him. for they truely collect a LOT of ears...
So how many pages y'all reckon this whine-fest will go on. I'll put the over/under at 6 pages.
I've said it time and time again, you are more than welcome to try and kill me. I don't think you can. If you hostile me, I'll tp to town, get a beer, and make fun of you until my fingers hurt.
Come to think of it, I welcome the hostile siren; I'm thirsty and heckly.
You guys crack me up. The very first argument all of the PK-ers use is:
Blizzard intended PvP to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
Well kids, that logic has a double edge to it.
Blizzard intended the ten-second hostile delay to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
So you guys run off at the mouth about how you deserve to be able to PK someone and you'll do what ever it takes, including cheating, to do it. All the time complaining about chicken hack users and whining like a little girl.
The very second you bypass the, Blizzard intended, ten second hostile delay and then complain about anyone else cheating, you become a run-of-the-mill, dime-a-dozen hypocrite.
If you can’t play the game within the rules, it’s definitely time to find another game. And if you have to cheat at a game to feel a sense of accomplishment, you have bigger problems than cheating at a game.
TM
funny how i always follow that 10 second timer... b*tch at someone else ;)
You guys crack me up. The very first argument all of the PK-ers use is:
Blizzard intended PvP to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
Well kids, that logic has a double edge to it.
Blizzard intended the ten-second hostile delay to be in the game. If you don't like it, play a different game.
So you guys run off at the mouth about how you deserve to be able to PK someone and you'll do what ever it takes, including cheating, to do it. All the time complaining about chicken hack users and whining like a little girl.
The very second you bypass the, Blizzard intended, ten second hostile delay and then complain about anyone else cheating, you become a run-of-the-mill, dime-a-dozen hypocrite.
If you can’t play the game within the rules, it’s definitely time to find another game. And if you have to cheat at a game to feel a sense of accomplishment, you have bigger problems than cheating at a game.
TM
And you antipkers crack me up, each time you argue, you take pking as one sort of pking.
I pked alot, and alot of the start of 1.10, i didnt use the wp bypass bug, there is alot of pks who dont use that bug.
You cant argue there is something wrong with legit pking, you can complain to blizz that there is bug and cheats out. but you cant argue with legit pking.
As long as you follow the rules set by blizz pking you cant convince me in anyway that pking is bad.
Let's keep in mind, though, that 99% of pkers dupe, mf, and maphack.
so...
Be carefull with percents as even without proof of numbers I would argue this statment all day long! i know of many PKs that are legit, I may not like PK and actually despize most PKs but I would bet $100 that this 99% is wrong!
I have a much different thought process with PK in 1.10 than I had in 1.09. With a 10 second timer (if not circumvented) if you stay and get PKed you either wanted to fight, or flat out didnt know anyhting about PK and in this instance maybe it was good to get PKed as you will never forget it.
My one major issue with PK that most PKs never will accept is that there is little challenge in most PK attempts. They are usually way over powered for thier targets, or simply killing new players that dont have the slightest idea that this lvl 12 Pally, sin....etc can smoke thier lvl 25. Sun this all up and in general PKs simply kill "noobs" (Noobs, a term I dont like).
Another issue I have with most PKs is simple manners.......and yes a PK can have some manners. If a PK comes in, hostiles, trys to kill, realizes all have left or are in town and then leaves, I have no issues.
Now if they come in and realize there is no kill chance and decides to "challenge", "call out" people by calling them "noobs" or insist on staying and ruining the game, or killing the "quest" then we have a low life piece of _______ Fill in the blank!
BTW for you fools running around calling peeps "NOOBS" for not fighting you or other reasons, please use your brain and think as the ones who didnt stay out there so you could kill them are not "noob" they are expierenced to PK and have made the right choice.
BTW, in my exp the ones running around calling everyone "NOOBS" tend to be the real noobs of this game as they wont fight equal or stronger foes and only mess with obvious weaker ones, or use illegit means to get ears.
Illegit killing is not PK, it is simply hack or cheat and deserves no title other than LAME, WEAK, or PATHETIC!
Have a good day!
terrymanning
18-03-2004, 17:50
And you antipkers crack me up, each time you argue, you take pking as one sort of pking.
I pked alot, and alot of the start of 1.10, i didnt use the wp bypass bug, there is alot of pks who dont use that bug.
You cant argue there is something wrong with legit pking, you can complain to blizz that there is bug and cheats out. but you cant argue with legit pking.
As long as you follow the rules set by blizz pking you cant convince me in anyway that pking is bad.
I think you may have missed my point. :scratch: I was in no way complaining about legitimate PK-ers. I was however, bringing up the way that some PK-ers choose to use an argument when it suites their purpose but disregard the same argument when it doesn't.
As for PK-ing being bad, I suppose it depends on what side of the BSnap charger you are on. :uhhuh:
TM
CoonerTheRed
18-03-2004, 17:56
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks.
yep, i stopped reading this thread right abou there... sounds like a real winner to me... :evil:
BtK-radth
18-03-2004, 18:02
unholy, whats ur acc?
laughingtiger
18-03-2004, 18:35
Personally I think its great that pkers are standing up for their rights by finding ways to pk with cheats and hacks.
Sorry, can't agree with you on this. As I stated to someone else in a previous PK-Anti PK thread: Intelligence. Patience. Innovation. Skills based upon ingenuity and the ability to work within the parameters of any given set of game rules are what engender respect in people.
I choose to play mostly private games with friends whom I've developed a good on-line relationship with because of all the static and bs that grief and hack pk's have brought into the game. If those things weren't such a factor, I would have no problems playing in pubbies. On occassion, I might even stick around to rise to the occassion. But with the state of the game as it is with regards to cheats, exploits and griefers, I'll take my gaming privately.
Regards,
Laughing Tiger :howdy:
Man i love these anti PKing threads. Almost always brought on by someone who just lost thier lvl 64 pvm'r to a 37 pker. If you die to a legit pker you deserved it. If you cant save and exit or cast a tp in 10 seconds maybe you should be playing something a little less complicated like "Bob the builder saves the day". PKing and dueling are part of the game get used to it. If you dont want to face pkers play password games or single player.
I myself never did try and pk or duel though i always loved helping my friends build thier pvps or even joining lvling runs and watch a pker in action. I guarantee most anti pkers would change thier tunes if they tried pking or dueling once. It takes a lot of skill and work to have an effective pvp. Plus the rush when that horn sounds and you jump in cant be matched..
Edit: Im going with the over at 6 pages
soooooo, how bout them Dodgers?
grauengel
18-03-2004, 18:59
a gross majority of pkers have no real skill or experience imo. not all to say the least, but a majority. i think if you have to use a char specially made for pk or pvp to beat or kill a pvmer.. then eh.. its like walking down the street with a baseball bat and beating the sense out of a 'specially handicapped' kid. and just for kicks, lets say the player is way under level of you.. ok to make it more in life terms, lets add a wheelchair, and blindness to the 'specially handicapped' kid. see my point? :P
and whoever said it is 'your right' to kill other peoples chars without their say is not correct. it is their character, not yours. what gives you the right to touch or break their property that they have worked hard on? thats like some libra saying its ok for a person to break into a persons house and wreck everything. TT and just because pking is harder, does not give you the right to say you get to use hacks and cheats now to pk. whoever said that should be banned first of all :|
its simply like this imo:
i, an unarmed person,(pvmer) step out of my frontdoor(out side of town), i get shot by a gun(hacks, cheats, trigger), fired by an 10 year old that is letting off steam after having no luck with the opposite sex or people of the same species(pker.. not saying all pkers are this, but it seems a great deal of them are.) Then the police(blizzard battle.net), attempted to arrest and kill the 10 year old, but they miss him and shoot me, and other innocent people without anything wrong(hacks). The 10 year old then gets away, and does it the next day.
lmafo you know you love my short story.
terrymanning
18-03-2004, 19:05
I guarantee most anti pkers would change thier tunes if they tried pking or dueling once.
Edit: Im going with the over at 6 pages
I would disagree with you on people changing their tune. I, for example, tried it once and easily realized it wasn't for me. I think you either have a predisposition to it or you don't.
And I’m taking the under. I think ZF will close this before it gets to three pages.
TM
Well, grauengel, the only problem with your story is that the anonymity of the Internet allows people to be jerks (see MF thread for an excellent example). Oh, and Diablo 2 is a video game.
It really says something about the stubbornness of all of us when we can rehash a topic that's been discussed to death for the last 3 years. Gogo mulepower!
grauengel
18-03-2004, 19:16
[QUOTE=maccool]Well, grauengel, the only problem with your story is that the anonymity of the Internet allows people to be jerks (see MF thread for an excellent example).QUOTE]
exactly - and that supports my theory that most pkers or 'jerks' on diablo2 are young children which are taking out their problems on nice people... why cant they be like normal nerds and take out their anger at like starwars conventions or star trek conventions. atleast us nice people wouldnt have no be near them TT
I would disagree with you on people changing their tune. I, for example, tried it once and easily realized it wasn't for me. I think you either have a predisposition to it or you don't.
And I’m taking the under. I think ZF will close this before it gets to three pages.
TM
Your right on the predisposition (woo new word of the day) some ppl have it others dont. I still however maintain that people may get a new respect ofr it if they try it. As for the over / under maybe i could bribe ZF to hold it open for 6 :winner:
Good that I am one of the 1% then!
PK as you see fit, but if you cheat you suck at it.
funny how i always follow that 10 second timer... b*tch at someone else
I just wanted to add that Baranor doesn't cheat.......I think we got it.
Easy Mr. Bear, you should know Terry as smart enough not to compare you with the lamers ;)
terrymanning
18-03-2004, 19:32
Easy Mr. Bear, you should know Terry as smart enough not to compare you with the lamers ;)
I have always known Baranor to play by, and encourage others to play by the rules. PK-er or not, how can anyone complain about that? Baranor might be quite a few things but never a lamer.
TM
Rofl its not that most of pkers dont have skill. Lots of pkers started pking
because theres not enough duelers (cant say for others but atleast me).
Its boring to make duel game wait there 20 min and no one joins and then finally someone join and say "27x martel no duel" but ofcourse if someone accepts to duel me i will duel. And I dont just wait for weaker char. I pk everyone other pkers, duelers , pkk's, exp chars, noobs, low lvls, higher lvls. For 10 second wp delay thats just ridiculos and should not be added to this patch.
Silkweed
18-03-2004, 19:33
[QUOTE=maccool]Well, grauengel, the only problem with your story is that the anonymity of the Internet allows people to be jerks (see MF thread for an excellent example).QUOTE]
exactly - and that supports my theory that most pkers or 'jerks' on diablo2 are young children which are taking out their problems on nice people... why cant they be like normal nerds and take out their anger at like starwars conventions or star trek conventions. atleast us nice people wouldnt have no be near them TT
That's unfair. Just because someone plays a certain way over an online video game does not mean that they are of a certain age and have certain hormonal issues. Nor does it mean that the people they are killing are "nice." I am sure that there are cases in which the person being PKed had it coming for being a jerk himself.
Tarring an entire generation with the stereotype brush is nothing short of prejudiced.
grauengel
18-03-2004, 19:39
That's unfair. Just because someone plays a certain way over an online video game does not mean that they are of a certain age and have certain hormonal issues. Nor does it mean that the people they are killing are "nice." I am sure that there are cases in which the person being PKed had it coming for being a jerk himself.
Tarring an entire generation with the stereotype brush is nothing short of prejudiced.
I admit, I am being very steortypical about it. But Im only speaking from the experiences ive had with pkers. most of the time, they are senseless little children with no experience.
I think you may have missed my point. :scratch: I was in no way complaining about legitimate PK-ers. I was however, bringing up the way that some PK-ers choose to use an argument when it suites their purpose but disregard the same argument when it doesn't.
As for PK-ing being bad, I suppose it depends on what side of the BSnap charger you are on. :uhhuh:
TM
Couldnt agree with you more TM. :thumbsup:
cyradis2003
18-03-2004, 20:42
*dashes onto the thread brandishing a plastic spork*
Prepare to be hijacked!!!!
Give me all your cookies (and let me pet the bear) and no one will be hurt!!!
*dashes onto the thread brandishing a plastic spork*
Prepare to be hijacked!!!!
Give me all your cookies (and let me pet the bear) and no one will be hurt!!!
Did I mention that I loved reading cyradis posts?
NightShade
18-03-2004, 21:00
My new hero.
Since I've fought this battle so many times, and heard pretty much every petty insult that one can throw at me, pking or my penis I do believe that there's not a whole lot that can be said anymore on it that hasn't been shot down by both sides. (if you feel particularly creative, go ahead)
Pking : It happens. Not all the people are jerks, by playing hardcore you know what you're signing up for, there's that box that you check and you press yes. If you don't like Pk'ers, go play SC, but when you die to a monster delete your character. It's quite simple.
I've been pk'ed (rarely) because I was stupid enough to stand and fight with an undergeared character. If you really have a grudge against them, do something about it. Don't *****, make a pkk. I give stinger credit for that atleast, he didn't go out and whine without actively doing something to stop it. I used to be a rabbid anti pk as well, so did KS....Hell, so did Rach at one point. Eventually you mature in the game and these things no longer bother you. If you can't escape a pk now, you're brain dead and should go to SC...Don't stand on a damned Wp...I don't care that there is a 10 second timer, there are ways around it... Problems are solved.
Yes, they ruin your exp runs...prehaps you should ask some of the choice people of the game to go private. If that doesn't work, try solo'ing. Sure it's boring but that's what staying away from the general public does.
I do so hate writing this PK stuff because I don't pk anymore (or play for that matter) and as such I'm not in a position to speak, but imo, nothing has changed enough for me to be antiquated yet.
Edit : A hijacking eh? If history tells me anything I'd best exit the plane....
I love pk threads!! :clap:
Stinger, TM and Barry made great points that I agree with. I admire people for coming up with unique pking ideas, finding a way to do good damage with equipment that appears to be crappy, that sort of thing. I enjoyed reading the pk build guide posts here. Also, having the integrity to reject cheating tactics to get an ear is worthy of respect.
Any group of people on bnet if you lump them all together, there will be a good deal of chaff. This is true of pvmers and pvpers. I don't think that most of the pvpers that post here fit into that category. Or at least I should say that there are pvpers that post here that I think are good, honorable people. Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if people are joking or not with their posts, so I try to reserve judgement in those cases (I'm kinda slow sometimes).
I don't think I've run into people from this forum pking on bnet, but I will continue to hope for it. :thumbsup: I probably just don't play enough anymore. :hanky:
I've read through all these posts, and it's good to see some folks out there like me. I think all who have read my posts know how I feel on things (i.e. I don't like PKers). I just wanted to add that I will never try to PK someone, and later some ideas. Duel maybe, but PK never. I don't care how long I play this game or any other game for that matter. With that being said I'm still a big Realism nut, and happy that both hostile and hardcore features are in the game. I come from MOHAA and COD and only played the most hardcore gametypes like no respawn and one-hit kills. I've left them in part because of rotten attitudes (got sick of hearing everyone say "owned" and other poor sportsmanship).
I've heard some people say that before they hated PKing, but now it's the only thing fun for them to do. I'm still rather new, and there are many more like me. Could you try to remember what it was like to be in my shoes, and not PK people like me (although without wp exploits it would be impossible anyway)? I've been playing D2 for 9 months now (with a big break after a 2 month stint and I'm on another 2 month stint so it's more like 4 months). I don't enjoy pure leveling and I don't enjoy PvP, but I enjoy adventuring so PKKing is not a good solution for me. I also don't enjoy being pushed around and not being able to retaliate so I hope in the future I hope that games make things harder for PKers to "get away with murder". Here are my ideas:
1. If a PKer ever tries to enter town he starts getting the sh*t beat out of him by the townspeople, and eventually will die unless he leaves town (he is betraying them too afterall). If he tries to fight back (which of course is futile) more townsfolk jump in and speed up his death (Charsi, go for the legs!).
2. If a PKer leaves a game in which he has committed a PK within 5 minutes of the PK his character is automatically deleted. They also can't leave the area in which the PK occured so if they can't fight back against or run away from would be PKKers than they will die too. This is to further remove the ridiculous invulnerability that PKers have.
3. If a PK is caught using a hack/exploit his character and account are deleted (can't wait for pay to play!)
4. A PKer can't PK someone unless there are more than 2 people in the game (for possible retaliation purposes).
Since I realize the above solutions will NEVER be a part of Diablo 2, I'm going to shift focus to some solutions for Diablo 2 with the remainder of my ideas.
5. The best minds of the PK community get together with the best minds of the anti-PK community and work out a Code. This will remove a lot of misunderstanding people have (I didn't know that some PKers have as much hatred for hackers as I do... which is pretty scary but nonetheless true). The first rule I'd propose to the PKers is that if a public game is flagged (in the title or description) to be PK-free please respect that. For example if I made a game called "arcane run" with "PKers stay out" that the people on this board who claim to be good could respect that. That's just one idea (and might not even be agreed upon), but I'm sure we could all come up with many things on hacking for example that we agree upon. For example, I understand that an anti-PK hack called a "chickenhack" exists. I never cheat or hack and I think that any honorable anti-PKer should never use one (although many hacking PKers leave honest folks no choice). Whatever the case a good forum sticky called "PK vs. anti-PK honorable guidelines" would bring a smile to my face.
laughingtiger
18-03-2004, 23:10
Kalki,
I understand where you're coming from with all this but I think that those who come to this forum are but a small minority of the population of bnet.
If we came to some sort of consensus regarding a "code" here on the forums I highly doubt that it would make a difference at all on bnet.
Besides, there's no way to enforce such a code.
Regards,
Laughing Tiger :spy:
I see your point about staying out of games with a no-pk tag, but to me, really, that just makes me want to enter more. People do not get a free ticket because they ask for one. I am sure many people wont belive this, but if the people in the game politely ask me to leave the game, at any time, I will do so, it almost never happens, it usually:
OMGOMGOMGOMG TALARRA IS TEH PKZOR!!!! I R TEH KIL JOO WIT MA LV 87 BARB DUEL BARB NUBBRBRBBLOL HAHA PWN.
Well, not to that extent, but people often DO act like real jerks, yes, i hostiled you, but hey, you dont like it because its disrespectful to your character you say? Right, and what is insulting me, my mother, my dog, my cat, size of certian body parts, race, religion, sexual prefrence? Hmm, might I venture a guess... disrespect?
Seriously, if people were more curteous and just ASKED nicely for me to leave, I am much more inclined to do so. And I generally do NOT pk in questing games, if people are actually working to level up and get stronger, hell, its worth it for me to not kill them and have more people like them (anyone noticed how they tend to be the more honest and kind people? as opposed to the rushees?) on the realms, on the other hand, if there are 6 level 28's in a baal run, tough luck guys, you are just leeching anyhow, even if I do kill you, you lost what, 15 minutes of time?
I would abide by such rules on a few conditions:
-They were accepted by most people on the boards, i would not want to be the only pker not hitting those games.
-Only a few games, with people from the forums are tagged with it.
-people dont abuse i, aka, the list of games would not look like this:
(assuming the tag was NPK (no pk) )
npkandy
apksewer
npkancients
npkarcane
gibfree
npkmephy
npkkilldiablo
npkbringurwfhahalol
botd hereomgomg
npkbaal
npkact2
npkcow
I just would not want all my possible victim games to be tagged with NPK, just one or two maybe.
If you really feel strongly about it, no matter how much I disagree with you, I am fine with it and will go with it if you (and you do kalki) present your arguments in a reasonable way, and ask beforehand that I not target you, despite the fact that our points of view are polar opposites, you seem very mature and like a nice guy, I would be more than willing to leave people like you alone when I pk, not to say I dont pk anymore, i certianly will ;)
-Matt
EDIT: 900 posts!! :winner: :clap:
NightShade
18-03-2004, 23:32
You're entirely right. Bring them. 7v1? I'll take my chances. I may die, but I'm sure as hell bringing down atleast 5 of them with me.
As far as I'm concerned, if they can bring me down, more power to them. Unless massively outclassed (lvl 18 charger vs a 63 barb) I stay in the game until all my targets are deceased or on the run..or I'm killed. The problem is that no one has the balls anymore. Time was I could get a duel in any game I walked into.
The problem : People can get away with that subpar gear crap vs Monsters. Not vs me. So what do they do? they run. THAT should be eliminated. No running within 5 minutes of the hostile, for either side. On Crush_Wolf I'd take on 2 pkk'ers at a time, mind you they weren't very good, but they stayed and faught so I respect that. People get smashed by pk'ers because 1) They have no one defending them. 2) They can't defend themselves properly.
1) No one Pkk's alot because it's boring. This is just part of the job. The pk runs like a scared rabbit as well, because they are probably outclassed
2)People should start using MAX DAMAGE JEWELS to level their damned characters. That level 12 pala hostiled? Well you have two barbs with gear capable of attacking him, along with mercs and their paladin.....If they had sufficient gear and balls, they'd stand toe to toe and win.....But no, they don't have either and as such run, or get slaughtered.
Unholy_VI
18-03-2004, 23:42
At 6 pages....
I'm taking the over.
dirtycash
19-03-2004, 00:05
I'm not here to argue pro-PK or anti-PK (Maybe someone could make a killing off of ebay with bumper stickers?) :thumbsup:
What is this 10 sec wp bypass deal?
I'm used to playing 1.09, and I thought the removal of hydra trap pk was awesome! Oh and meteor... remember that in cow game?? 5 ppl dying instantly?
I've only recently gotten used to the Necro bs pk after seeing 3 ppl die from it. Is there something else I have to worry about now? There is a way for Pk's to use the wp after hostiling before 10 sec?
TIA
BTW, it took me 3 dead chars to realize this ain't 1.09 anymore. Thats from monsters in NM not PK's.
CookiesnCream
19-03-2004, 01:16
My one major issue with PK that most PKs never will accept is that there is little challenge in most PK attempts. They are usually way over powered for thier targets, or simply killing new players that dont have the slightest idea that this lvl 12 Pally, sin....etc can smoke thier lvl 25. Sun this all up and in general PKs simply kill "noobs" (Noobs, a term I dont like).
Another issue I have with most PKs is simple manners.......and yes a PK can have some manners. If a PK comes in, hostiles, trys to kill, realizes all have left or are in town and then leaves, I have no issues.
Now if they come in and realize there is no kill chance and decides to "challenge", "call out" people by calling them "noobs" or insist on staying and ruining the game, or killing the "quest" then we have a low life piece of _______ Fill in the blank!
BTW for you fools running around calling peeps "NOOBS" for not fighting you or other reasons, please use your brain and think as the ones who didnt stay out there so you could kill them are not "noob" they are expierenced to PK and have made the right choice.
BTW, in my exp the ones running around calling everyone "NOOBS" tend to be the real noobs of this game as they wont fight equal or stronger foes and only mess with obvious weaker ones, or use illegit means to get ears.
Illegit killing is not PK, it is simply hack or cheat and deserves no title other than LAME, WEAK, or PATHETIC!
Have a good day!
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Most PKers refuse to fight even equal characters because their afraid to die. And ironically these same people call PvMers "noobs", "pussy" or "go back to softcore". If a PvMer should go back to softcore because he is afraid to lose his char to a PKer, then the PKer should also go back to softcore if he is afraid to lose his character to a good dueler. It is hypocritical to call someone a "pussy" for not fighting you, when you don't fight stronger chars as well.
If you don't like Pk'ers, go play SC, but when you die to a monster delete your character. It's quite simple.!
As I said before, don't tell PvMers to go back to softcore if you don't duel other PvP chars. (not talking to you but the majority of PKers do this) It is hypocritical to do so.
Rofl its not that most of pkers dont have skill. Lots of pkers started pking
because theres not enough duelers (cant say for others but atleast me).
I'm talking about how already existing PKers refuse to duel other PvP chars. There aren't many duelers, but then how come most PKers don't accept a challenge given by another PvPer?
NightShade
19-03-2004, 01:24
All my characters were built as full blown duelers. I welcomed the chance to get a friggin duel once in a while. I figure if I pissed enough people off, MAYBE one might give me some entertainment
Bongo Fury
19-03-2004, 06:08
The problem : People can get away with that subpar gear crap vs Monsters. Not vs me. So what do they do? they run. THAT should be eliminated. No running within 5 minutes of the hostile, for either side.
IF I decide to twink my character, I usually don't do it till around A4, then usually just some resist gear. It's the way I like to play, but I surely don't insist that everyone play that way.
You feel that everyone should twink their character to the max in PvP gear at all times. And anyone who doesn't play just like you, deserves to have their character deleted. My what a small and bitter person you are.
NightShade
19-03-2004, 06:52
As for your Quoted text, it was severe sarcasm. Some one above me said that a pk shouldnt be able to go anywhere near a town or move or anything which is completely out of the question, so I responded with that.
No, there are plenty of ways to avoid the pk's. I'm simply saying that unless you equipt yourself properly to deal with the situation you are more likely to die from it.
It's much like playing through a hell D game with -fire res... Ok, you weren't geared properly for the situation and you bit it. I don't feel sorry. You stayed within the PK'ers range without having any gear , I don't feel sorry for you. No, I don't think EVERYONE should twink their chars like that, I believe that if they die to a pk with a character clearly not suited for the situation, that they have no right to whine or moan.
Yes, I'm sure it must be horrible running from game to game to get rid of that 1 pk'er who follows you, but that's why you grab some random meat from the games and play a priv, that's what I did when I was hounded.
ZappaFan
19-03-2004, 14:12
Does anybody else's eyes start to glaze over when they read these threads?
I really wish I'd saved that "last word on PK'ing thread". That had some of the best "real" debate on the subject that we've ever had. *sigh*
Lately some of these "debates" seem like just so much gum flapping. Sorry if that sounds harsh but my work schedule has taken a sharp upturn in the past week and my patience is wearing a bit on the thin side. Somebody should buy me a beer. :drink:
terrymanning
19-03-2004, 14:35
Somebody should buy me a beer. :drink:
Come to Wisconsin and I'll buy you two. :drink: :drink: However, be warned, it did snow here yesterday.
TM
i'm not here to argue. and i'll admit that i didnt read ALL the posts so i dont know if this has been said or not. the 10 second timer for the wp was put in to protect people with slower computers from being creamed everytime they left town. there are still ways to pk,i dont think the wp thing killed anything
DFA-FrstbyteOO
19-03-2004, 15:47
Well Im not gonna get into the debate too much.. but I would like to add something.
Ive read a couple times that PKers will not duel other "Duelers".
well there are a couple things to this. First, When I Make a PK I make my PK with as much DISPOSIBLE gear I can put on while still maintaining my dmg. Seeing as its my crappier gear.. Im pretty much built only for one thing.. Chase ppl down and try to kill them. I most likely will NOT have a 75% chance to block or high life (Im not wasting my small vitas on a PKer ever).
Now that said you want my little 12 pally to duel a real dueler. okay lets say I agree. Now 98% of the time this person is gonna bring back something in the lvl 50-80 range to duel my 12, lets just face it.. that's exactly what happens. But even if they brought a lvl 16 I would duel it expecting to die. A "real Dueler" should always be built around a combination of Maxing dmg output and Defense.. well seeing as my little 12 pally has none and you have a whole bunch.. guess "Im" outclassed and outgeared now. So pretty much "Im" the PvMer now and the real "dueler" is the PK.. now how has the situation changed? you dont want to duel my PK with your PvMer and now you expect me to duel your Dueler with a PK? kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
sorry that is longer than I intended. point being, PKs are not built like duelers..we use cheap gear cuz it WILL be lost.. any good PKK can surprise a PK and put an early end to his hunting for the night at any time.
Chiller_babe
19-03-2004, 15:47
Does anybody else's eyes start to glaze over when they read these threads?
I really wish I'd saved that "last word on PK'ing thread". That had some of the best "real" debate on the subject that we've ever had. *sigh*
Lately some of these "debates" seem like just so much gum flapping. Sorry if that sounds harsh but my work schedule has taken a sharp upturn in the past week and my patience is wearing a bit on the thin side. Somebody should buy me a beer. :drink:
Couldn't agree more Zappa - I think I must be some kind of Masochist just for reading them, but I always think " maybe someone will come up with something new" - mone fool me!
I like PKers - I have made a consious effort to meet new people to play with in private games when levelling weird builds. If pubbies were safe I wouldn't have bothered ( I'm a lazy sod by nature:))
I have built duelling charcs and laughed my head off when PK's have fluxed to a fury by my crush druid!
I've even tried Pking myself - prefer Ironmans to pking but hey I will try everything at least once!
So bring on more Pkers - it makes playing hardcore that much MORE interesting than killing poor demons again and again - Here we go "SAVE The DEMONS" RaRaRa
Chill
thats why you just exploit the wp and go right down and get some ears :D done.
terrymanning
19-03-2004, 17:03
thats why you just exploit the wp and go right down and get some ears :D done.
Ahh, the sweet smell of cheating. Don't forget to enable chicken before you hit the way point. You don't want any of the pesky PKKs spoiling your fun.
TM
Well Im not gonna get into the debate too much.. but I would like to add something.
Ive read a couple times that PKers will not duel other "Duelers".
[...]
So pretty much "Im" the PvMer now and the real "dueler" is the PK.. now how has the situation changed? you dont want to duel my PK with your PvMer and now you expect me to duel your Dueler with a PK? kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
Now this is funny...
You don't want to fight a dueler with your PKer because his gear/skills/whatever are better and more suited to the fight than yours... but it's ok and fun to kill PvMers with your PKer because in this case you have the advantage.
How brave.
What was the word you used?
Oh yes, "hypocritical". :flip:
Now that said you want my little 12 pally to duel a real dueler. ...... But even if they brought a lvl 16 I would duel it expecting to die.
That makes you braver than 90+ percent of PKs out there then.
now how has the situation changed? you dont want to duel my PK with your PvMer and now you expect me to duel your Dueler with a PK? kinda hypocritical if you ask me.
Actually I'd say the reverse is true as well. i.e. your complaint about this is hypocritical since a PKer's livelihood depends on fighting 'weaker' (pvm) characters.
If anything PK vs dueler build would be quite fair. The PK will undoubtedly do higher damage, but have lower defense. The dueler, like you say, will have higher defense, but at the cost of lower damage. Are you suggesting that duelers don't expect to lose their gear either?
BtK-radth
19-03-2004, 17:26
any see march madness last night?
some crazy games.
ZappaFan
19-03-2004, 18:10
some very awesome games yesterday from the sound of things. I normally am glued to the tube during the NCAA Tournament, but I didn't get to watch even a minute of it yesterday. Will probably watch quite a bit this weekend (none today tho).
And on that note I hereby end this PK thread.
any see march madness last night?
some crazy games.
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