View Full Version : Wind Druid help with Mana
DarkWolf555
20-02-2004, 06:32
Hi, new to the forums and still learning most of the game still.
I wanted to ask for help, I'm making a Wind druid after seeing all the threads here on the build and started making it.
I didn't follow the exact build, I put stat points in what I wanted and I have a problem with mana usage. I'm level 36, 14 Cyclone armor, 5 Hurricane, 3 twister and I forgot how many in tornado maybe 7 or 8.
Anyway, I cast Hurricane first then start casting tornado as my main attack but I have problems trying to get back the mana used. I pump up mana potions all the time just to fill up my mana ball. My Energy is at 50, should I find a 3 Socketed Spirit Mask and put in a Perfect Skull and some other stuff to help me out in the mana?
I don't know what I should do, since the gems and Skulls are perminant I don't want to waste them if I could find something better overtime in high levels (60 to 80). Would it be a good idea to imbue a Spirit Mask with charsi's imbue quest on a level 6 char? Would I get sockets for it?
Thoughts?
mepersoner
20-02-2004, 06:35
Just stalk up on other items that give you mana for now. Possibly stop pumping your main skill for now and pump synergies so it will gain strength, but not costs in mana.
Just stalk up on other items that give you mana for now. Possibly stop pumping your main skill for now and pump synergies so it will gain strength, but not costs in mana.Personally I went straight down the line when maxing skills, except for Twister. Cyclone Armor, Tornado, then Hurricane. The only time I deviated from that was I put a point in Hurricane instead of Tornado once it became available. That, and I had put 3 points into Twister early on, but stopped when I noticed that the damage increase wasn't all that much, and saved points for when Tornado became available.
Also, Tornado stays at a casting cost of 10 no matter what the level if I'm not mistaken, which is great.
I'm not really sure what to tell you here. My Energy is at base, and I don't have a problem. I just drink a few potions here and there and I'm good. I keep one or two in my inventory for when I need them, but that isn't often. I don't have any items that give +XX% Regenerate Mana either.
I guess a few tips off the top of my head would be these: First, I recast Cyclone Armor everytime I go into town before I talk to whoever it is in the act that restores all your health/mana. That way you're always going back out at full strength. My guess would be that some tactics changes would be in order. First, I find that Tornado is best used with large groups instead of single targets, bosses/Act bosses being the exception. If you encounter a group, use some moving around to lump them into a large group and let a few Tornados fly into it. If you know how to aim your Tornados, this is usually the best way to drop creatures quickly. Once you get them down to a manageable size, let your Merc and Hurricane finish off the stragglers. Also, Hurricane can be a bit of a Mana burner, so only use it when you need it on packs of tough creatures. If you get a pack of something that drops in one or two Tornados, Hurricane's not all that necessary I've found. let your Merc finish up the few creatures that might be left, after all, that's what you're paying him for. Now, if you find say a pack of Carvers or something, I find it's a better use of Mana to throw on Hurricane and run through the camp/pack. They usually go down in a hit or two of Hurricane, depending on Difficulty/Hurricane strength. With your 14 points into Cyclone armor, you should have enough duration on Hurricane for this to work well. A few tactics changes can go a long way. I find that using Tornados on one or two creatures to be a waste, when your Merc can do it just fine.
mepersoner
20-02-2004, 10:15
Yeah, Tornado always has a casting cost of 10. :)
Yeah, Tornado always has a casting cost of 10. :)
Yeah, I just checked out my Wind Druid just to be sure. I think that's great.
Ravenforce3
20-02-2004, 10:34
I found that getting a Solar Creeper, even at lvl 1, is a big help. I've never done a Wind druid with base Energy, but I know that, at higher levels, my vine can eat one corpse and fill me back up from a Hurricane.
Bob_TheMadCow
20-02-2004, 11:00
Tir runes are your friend :) If your really in trouble try to get five of those and every nado that kills something will let you cast another nado to kill the next thing.
I had a leaf staff, Tir/PSaphire in my helm and shield on a fire druid and had a sorc comment that I seemed to have unlimited mana :). But Leaf (TirRal in a staff) is only really good for fire druids :(
Just try to get more mana from your gear, things will only get better as you level up, gain more mana naturally, do more damage per nado, and get better gear :)
I I've never done a Wind druid with base EnergyReally? I don't know. I'm at level 59, Energy at base, 185 total Mana with 49 coming from Charms and equipment, and I have 150 stat points I haven't used yet, and I'm blowing my way through Act 3 NightMare at the moment with very little Mana problems, and those are nothing that a quick Mana potion can't fix. This is a completely untwinked Character, too.
Bob_TheMadCow
20-02-2004, 12:51
If you know what your doing, base mana should be enough. You don't really get enough mana from raising NRG, just like you don't really wanna resort to pumping DEX to raise AR :)
Solar Creeper can be handy if, like me, you don't like drinking pots unless it's really needed.
Solar Creeper can be handy if, like me, you don't like drinking pots unless it's really needed.
Just out of curiosity, why don't you like drinking them?
Nothing wrong with mana pots.
At low levels, I don't see the problem.
Get to 25, level in baal games (you shouldn't have to kill a lot), that should get you high enough to have a nice mana base/gear.
My windy still uses mana pots pvm sometimes, usually after long teles and such.
Nothing wrong with mana pots.
At low levels, I don't see the problem.
Get to 25, level in baal games (you shouldn't have to kill a lot), that should get you high enough to have a nice mana base/gear.
My windy still uses mana pots pvm sometimes, usually after long teles and such.
Agreed. Really, in PvM mana shouldn't be a problem as potions literally liter the ground. If you're really having a problem, fill up a belt row with them. I keep Full Rejuvs in 3 rows, and I keep a row of Healing potions in the other, just so I'm not wasting the Rejuvs when regular potions will usually do the job fine with the lesser creatures, and keep the Rejuvs for the big boss fights when you need an instant refreshing.
Bob_TheMadCow
20-02-2004, 15:10
Just out of curiosity, why don't you like drinking them?
Old habit. I'm a hoarder, I don't like the idea of running out of potions, so I make sure I always have plenty.
I'm not sure. It's just one of those things :)
You should have seen my 1.09 Geomancer, boy could he go through mana like there was no tomorrow!
sexyfool
20-02-2004, 15:17
I am also building a wind druid and at 65 ish atm doing nm baals and the odd run to help others thru chaos sanctuary and the like. My energy is at base and I was, even at lvl 61, struggling to complete a run without one or two mana pots. Accept that drinking pots is inevitable and play on. If you have mf'd enough to add a wiz and a shako as I have then of course your mana problems disappear but there are numerous cheap alternatives. Check arreat summit for elite items that add to mana and mid level sets and use those items. Do not waste your time trying to get the "uber" items, your wind druid is awesome without them.
Read gir's first post carefully as he is giving excellent advice on how to use tornado which is still my biggest mana drain. I strongly recommend you max cyclone armour first. This will boost tornado damage, hurricane length ( less need to recast ) and the damage absorb is simply fabulous.
I have placed one pt in raven the 2 wolves and bear so with plus skills i have 6 to all these summons for a very cheap 4 pt investment. Use them as tanks to group the monsters and then cut loose. Look for blue ele skill ammys. They drop often and plus 1 and 2 are very easy to get. I have a plus 3 and while I was working up to lvl 46 another one dropped at my feet. Pick up and identify every ammy!
Find or trade for a spectral shard (50% fast cast, 50 mana, 10%res all). It will cost very little and is a great stopgap untill you can find or trade for wizard spike. Use a plus to mana druid helm or make a lore (ort/sol) helm. Manald heal is a pretty cheap ring with great ele druid mods.
Good luck with your windy and if your on hcl uswest look me up. I play as cof-fool. Happy to help out if I can.
Old habit. I'm a hoarder, I don't like the idea of running out of potions, so I make sure I always have plenty.
I'm not sure. It's just one of those things :)
You should have seen my 1.09 Geomancer, boy could he go through mana like there was no tomorrow!
Hah, I feel ya on that. I'm trying to break that habit at the moment. I used to keep 4 Mana potions in my inventory at all times "just in case." But then I started to notice that I only used one every not-so-often, so I cut it down to one, and it's been enough. I've also got into the habit of just picking them up off the ground and popping it on the spot after mana-draining battles. It works well for me.
I know i typed awhile ago in the faq wind druid thread to max tornado fast b/c its your main killing skill. However there tends to be more and more untwinked ele's coming in here. So this is my suggestion (I'm doing this on hcl right now). Max hurricane FIRST if untwinked or dont have funds... it can take care of anything in norm/nm difficulties except for a few monsters (use tornado on them). This will save you on mana. Also as bob said tir is your friend i remember in hc 09 i used to go tir hunting for my low lvl sorces ... mana after kill helps a lot. I'm not really sure what your funds are ... but keep an eye out for
Magic Light Belt/Sharkskin Belt/Vampirefang Belt
Ith Rune
Perfect Amethyst
Any Jewel
for a crafted caster belt (cube it)
and
Magic Amulet
Ral Rune
Perfect Amethyst
Any Jewel
You can get the first ral rune off of the save the barb quest so that should almost give you one craft hopefully a p amethyst will fall on forge.
Bob_TheMadCow
20-02-2004, 19:44
If you can be bothered doing it and setting up an easy twink item, get a six Tir'd Crystal Sword/pick axe. Very low reqs, and available for use from lvl 13 :) But you need to find the sword with a higher level character
Actually max cyclone along with tornado (saved points should be going there) so you don't have a ten second hurricane which would be WORSE on your mana.
I agree to some extent that using getting both to a decent lvl however I forgot to mention that i got a high lvl ca (10+) before torndado / hurricane was availlable so once hurricane was available no more in ca is needed. Also if you max ca your hurricane will be doing much less damage for a long period of time thus you will use less mana but will be waitin a decent amount of time to kill anything in nm..... its a win lose situation. Max ca get less dam. for more time. Max cane get more damage for less time.
If you get a lvl 10 ca before cane becomes available you will have little mana problems and do mad damage, I have tested this ..... since i am currently building a total untwinked hc.
Also I answered this w/ respect to many d2 players. How so? 95% of d2 players would perfer to kill faster than to be more efficent .... lets face it the human race is greedy .... (me included). I dont want to stand and wait 15 seconds for a monster to die most of the time .... i want close to instant death .... thus maxing hurricane is the answer.
I agree to some extent that using getting both to a decent lvl however I forgot to mention that i got a high lvl ca (10+) before torndado / hurricane was availlable so once hurricane was available no more in ca is needed. Also if you max ca your hurricane will be doing much less damage for a long period of time thus you will use less mana but will be waitin a decent amount of time to kill anything in nm..... its a win lose situation. Max ca get less dam. for more time. Max cane get more damage for less time.
If you get a lvl 10 ca before cane becomes available you will have little mana problems and do mad damage, I have tested this ..... since i am currently building a total untwinked hc.
Also I answered this w/ respect to many d2 players. How so? 95% of d2 players would perfer to kill faster than to be more efficent .... lets face it the human race is greedy .... (me included). I dont want to stand and wait 15 seconds for a monster to die most of the time .... i want close to instant death .... thus maxing hurricane is the answer.
You're forgetting that points in cyclone will raise tornado damage just as much as hurricane would, which is your killer, not hurricane.
you forget that in nm hell hurrcane can kill anything in like 3 seconds and before you hit hell both torndado and hurricane should be maxed. AND hurricane cost less mana in the end if you got 10+ in ca
you forget that in nm hell hurrcane can kill anything in like 3 seconds and before you hit hell both torndado and hurricane should be maxed. AND hurricane cost less mana in the end if you got 10+ in ca
Hurricane is not a wind druid's main killer. It's used to supplement tornado, it's great for slowing monster or small ones who mob you (flayers, fallen), I don't forget anything.
fenris me and you have a disagrement on wind druids we have to face it and look for other opinions to back us up .... us arguing is getting out of hand. From what i hear (havent read your guide) you know a good bit about pvp wind druids, however i disagree w/ a lot of your points on pvm untwinked and i think other opinions would help this situation out rather than us just arguing aimlessly. I notice you reply a lot w/ godly gear and all however i feel a majority of these questions are asking for poor gear. With godly gear your suggestion would work ... and im all for them however maxing tornado w/ zero + mana items and wearing gear like charsi armor doesnt seem to work well for pvm. I hope others w/ untwinked pvm ppl respond b/c im not really seeing your opinion viable unless im twinked to some degree, and this arguing is getting boring.
edit: have you maxed hurricane in nm and tried it .... i have only met a few strong uniques that i needed like 2-3 low lvl tornados to kill
Anything owns nightmare dude, it's all about hell, and hurricane kills way too slow by itself to be used as a main source of damage.
BTW, my wind druid got to hell untwinked before I put on his good stuff, unless you consider sigons and spectral shard twinked. :buddies:
You just edited ..... you just said you were rushed and VERY twinked ..... im confused now .... also you pointed out my pont thank you.
Anything CAN own in nm but hurricane can own more easily AND req. less mana. (no spamage). Assuming you pump ca up a good bit.
So did you giet rushed like you posted before .... i belive you said nm hell rush ..... or did you walk through ? And where did that minataur kill you during the rush ... norm nm hell?
I said, I rushed myself, as in I ran through easily, sorry if it sounded like I got rushed.
It was ventar, the pit lord seal boss when you fight diablo, and it was norm.
its llike i said before fenris i disagree alot with your pvm tactics ... and i think we need a few outsiders to come in here and look a this.
I origanally posted a faq wind druid thread and said exatly what you are saying now, however with more expeience i am seeing that if i am using:
aldurs helm
lt wand
stealth armor
crap ammy
rare crap rings
crap belt
chance guards
rare boots
sig shield
(gear i currently use pvm in hc)
With this gear i believe my thoughts are more concrete. Again i think we are going no where in these arguments b/c i have been where you are (tornado is god) and i thought the same thing. Until i used such crappy gear that a lt wand is considered godly to me in nm act 5. And i shopped that thing in norm charsi. Apparently you and I are the only knowledgable people in these forums w/ wind druid experience and we strongly disagree on untwinked pvm hc. And extra ppl will help solve this situation.
.
Dude, if you are relying on hurricane to kill you have to get CLOSE to any monster you want to damage, how is that better then nado which at least has some range to it.
in nm they all die with in 2-3 seconds of contact ..... and you got a merc out and a grizzly and 5 ravens ..... chances they touch you are slim. Not to mention a high block % and decent life.
also you telling me spamming tornado is less mana than a frequent hurricane ..... b/c that is what the question was about ... mana issues.
Okay..I'm talking about hell here, arguing that something can kill in nightmare so it's better is not a very good test.
If you can get a 3k+ tornado you will be killing groups with just 1-2 hits, so a few Tir or the occasional mana pot will be fine.
I dont think your following me so i'll spell it out.
a) 10+ ca
b) max hurricane
c) max tornado
all the while putting a decent bit into oak and summons.
for suggestion purposes lets say my set up:
10 oak
20 hurricane
20 tornado
5 ravens
1 in preq to get grizzly and grizzly
lvl req 64.
Now show me a hc who is walking through that goes to hell at 64 and ill show you a suicidal person. Point is im not arguing that tornado wasnt the main killler .... never was. what i am arguing is that for a pvm character hurricane is the way to go for nm ... you will easily max it before you got to hell along w/ tornado (your main killer).
I dont know if i can write it much simpler than that but if necessary i will attempt.
HURRICANE IS BETTER FOR NM TORNADO FOR HELL !!!!!1
exactly why we need other ppl w/ experience to reply ....
edit: Only reason im arguing is b/c scl = maxed tornado first
hcl = maxed hurricane first .... both did well but hurricane was easier for me ... have you tried both ways ..... ?
sexyfool
21-02-2004, 15:58
exactly why we need other ppl w/ experience to reply ....
edit: Only reason im arguing is b/c scl = maxed tornado first
hcl = maxed hurricane first .... both did well but hurricane was easier for me ... have you tried both ways ..... ?
Ask for opinions .....and they shall be given
Respect both ways for views well argued but......points to fenris. Why? Because I have been hc only for 2 years and hcl only since 1.10 so I am very defensive. MAX cyclone armour first. No matter what. You get, damage absorbed, longer hurricane so less recasting and damage bonus to tornado. I gave in to the temptation and added nice items at about lvl 50 but it was sigons all the way before that with clan crusher (? plus 2 skill club ?).
The way I play my ele druid, tornado kills and hurricane slows. I like to lure packs and kill em while bear plays footy with em. So 1-2 tornado's do great damage early on for minimal mana loss. I still drank pots untill wiz of course but that's hcl for you.
Others may differ in their opinions so lets hear :yep: em.
I think we should stop arguing and agree that you can play wind druids a lot of ways and still do great.
Edit: We are the Master Race. (yay I get to be Hitler :lol: :lol: )
Ask for opinions .....and they shall be given
Respect both ways for views well argued but......points to fenris. Why? Because I have been hc only for 2 years and hcl only since 1.10 so I am very defensive. MAX cyclone armour first. No matter what. You get, damage absorbed, longer hurricane so less recasting and damage bonus to tornado. I gave in to the temptation and added nice items at about lvl 50 but it was sigons all the way before that with clan crusher (? plus 2 skill club ?).
The way I play my ele druid, tornado kills and hurricane slows. I like to lure packs and kill em while bear plays footy with em. So 1-2 tornado's do great damage early on for minimal mana loss. I still drank pots untill wiz of course but that's hcl for you.
Others may differ in their opinions so lets hear :yep: em.
I agree w/ you on a lot of your points ca at a high lvl is always a great option for pvm ispecially in hc. And i agree w/ you in that if you opt to max ca first then working tornado before hurricane is definitly a good idea. Im just curious though have any of you guys maxed hurricane the walked through nm w/ it? B/c i maxed it around act2/3 nm and well .... up until act 5 nm i was basically walking around and watching things die almost instantly.
Act 1-3 instant death on everything hurricane touched but champion etc.
Act 4 .... took like 1-3 seconds depending on monster
Act 5 ... hurricane is starting to become that weak pvm spell everyone is talking about ... but my tornado is lvl 15 or so and throwing 1 of them kill just about anything.
I agree that there are many ways to play wind druids especially for pvm and every man to his own i guess. Has no one tried maxing hurricane first?
I used to always say max it first as well btw ... but then i tried this and I have had a change of opinion.
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