Summonmancer Baal runner

[Knightmare]

Someone please help me. I'm in the middle of a horrible crisis after reading all these summonmancer guides!

Which type of summon necromancer is best for baal running? I've already started on a summon necromancer. He's lvl 20 and has already maxed Raise Skeleton and put some points in Skeleton Mastery.

I read the Necromancer Encyclopedia and found a build that might be the best in my case which is the Skeleton/Poison Necromancer. Will this build help me in Baal Runs in Hell?

Should I max block? Get bone armor or bone prison or bone wall?

Here's the guide I had my eye on:

4.4 Poison/skeleton
One of the first necro’s I had considered playing for 1.10 and when done right one of the

best options. I’ve yet to find the ideal skill point set-up but this is a good start.

Poison and Bone
10-20 p.dagger
5-20 p.explosion
20 p.nova
1-5 c.e.
1 bone armour
1 pre-reqs

Summoning
10-20 skele mastery
15-20 raise skelton
0-3 mages
0-5 revives
1-5 clay
1-5 g.mast
1-5 summon resit
0-1 fire golem
2 pre-reqs(if revives, or fire golem used)

Curses
1 in all curses
10 in all curses

Solid tanks, both high physical and poison damage, and his array of curses makes this necro

among the best all around in 1.10.

:hanky:

[spuddogg]

I have a mf skelliemancer that eats baal for breakfast.
Can't give you the exact skill point allocation at the moment but here's a rough outline -
Maxed RS and SM.
Curses have 1 each.
CE pumped to about 10 (count on your +skills gear to increase even more).
1 in CG.
1 in Revive.
I have 1 in PN (at 9 with +skills), but I never really use it.
Now that my merc has Crushing Blow (don't throw that Rattlecage away!) I can drop baal in 30-45 seconds.
Minions are no problem (attract, amp and CE takes care of them).
Only things to watch out for are Souls (DV takes them out) and Obliv Knights (their IM wipes my boys out in a heartbeat if i'm not careful).

[spuddogg]

Oh and lastly -
Dex is pumped to keep my block around 66% (highly recommended if you do Pit Runs).
Str is minimum req for gear.
Nrg is base.
All else in Vit.

[Knightmare]

Thank you very much. :worship:

But why only one in revive? What type of merc did you get btw?

[Dausuul]

Thank you very much. :worship:

But why only one in revive? What type of merc did you get btw?

I would assume he only has 1 in Revive because more than 1 is a total waste. Revives kill much slower than skeleton warriors, they get in the way, they cause nasty lag, and they get lost and vanish unless you spend half your time babying them along. With +skills, 1 in Revive is plenty. I hardly ever bother Reviving except when preparing to fight Lister and his pals.

For the merc, I'd guess a Might merc (Act 2 offensive), which will boost a skelemancer's killing speed tremendously. (I'd say my skeletons inflict about twice as much damage with the aura on, though it's hard to judge for sure.)

That bit about crushing blow sounds... interesting. I think I may have to dig up a Shael rune and upgrade my Rattlecage. It'd sure be nice to be able to engage Baal without needing a book to read while my minions nibble him to death.

[Knightmare]

I'm startin to get worried :(

I'm at lvl 24 now and I have 10 skeleton warriors (that's it). I've been doing some baal runs in normal but when they get to baal (my skeleton warriors), they are constantly distracted by the tentacle things and baal keep on teleporting around! How will I defeat Baal in Hell solo? How will I eat him for breakfast just like the other summon necros? :(

[Ravenforce3]

When my Summonmancers go up against him, I try to swarm him on the bridge. It gives fewer places for tentacles. For some reason, he never teleports when I surround him. That could be because I keep Gumby and Decrep on him constantly (making him move like a gerriatric.) Try to slow him down some. If he can't attack, he can't teleport. Slower enemies are easier to keep in Hit Recovery.

[Knightmare]

I see. What is gumby?

Do you only use your skeleton warriors? No direct hits like poison nova? Should I go along with this poison nova/ skellie necromancer build to solo hell baals? (as in mf :P)

[Ravenforce3]

Gumby=Clay Golem

Primarily, I would solo Baal with just skeles and as many Council Members/Balrogs as I could get. It takes a while to do, but if you get your merc a Hone Sundan or something else with the mod Crushing Blow, it'll go a lot faster.

Incidentally, the skelemancer I usually do Baal with also uses .09 Trangs, so I usually lay out a few firewalls to drain his HP a little faster.

[disci]

Decrep+Clay combination works wonders vs Baal.
I have Reaper's Toll on my merc, so I can go make coffee while Baal is getting hit left and right.
:)

[Xiamet]

When approaching the bridge to Baal, immediately cast CG on him, followed by a Decrepify. This slows him to a crawl and allows you time to then run past baal on the bridge...why run past him? This forces your skeles to follow you til they meet baal and forces your skeles to focus on baal instead of his tentacles. I find that constat Decrepifying and CG when needed tends to minimize baal's teleporting.

Spam Bone Spirit if you have it to hasten the kill, or sit back and sip some tea while your minions work him.

A merc with the CB mod definitely does wonders to speed up the kill. I equipped mine with a Hone Sundan and a Blackhorn's for the Prevent Monster heal and slow features. Between the CG's slow, my Decrepify and the merc's slow...Baal is ususally slowed to an almost frame by frame animation. it's glorous...lol

-X

[mes_uno]

At low levels baal can be quite difficult. You will definitely want maxed skeletons and skeleton mastery. The massive boost in life and damage makes it well worth while. As far a poison goes, i tried poison with my first mf necro and am now rebuilding with maxed corpse explosion. The increased range on the corpse explosion makes getting to baal very fast as it will cover most of the passage way each time you cast it. It makes for a more versatile mf char i feel, as it does both fire and physical dmg more quickly than an unsynergised poison nova could do.

My build as it looks at the moment:

Maxed SM/RS
1 mages
1 revived (6 with plus skills; all i ever need or want)
1 in each golem and golem mastery/summon resists

Corpse Explosion - maxing at the moment
1 bone armour
1 bone prison (may max later?)

1 in all curses (+3 from items)

Once i have maxed CE i will probably be putting points in decrepify for the duration increase. It gets frustrating casting it every 6 seconds on baal.

When i'm killing baal i use a Chu-Ko-Nu socketed EthEthEthEthShael and swap in some crushing blow gear. It easily halves the time it takes to kill him (think sorcs static). It will be even faster when i get some crushing blow gear on my merc.

[niomosy]

Your build almost looks more like a Venomancer with some skellies than the other way around.

If you're wanting to go the summoning route, I'd suggest maxing RS & SM then going for good 'ol Corpse Explosion.

[Knightmare]

Interesting. So mages aren't all that great?

Hmm...luckily I haven't put any in any of the poison skills. I've put 1 in CE, 1 in Clay Golem and 1 in Summon resist, Golem Mastery, and Amplify Damage. I maxed Raise Skeleton and put at least 8 in Skeleton Mastery so far.

Now I'm wondering what route I should take.

Oh and why should put one in EACH golem when I'm only using Clay Golem? :\

I don't get that part with the Chu-ko-nu with the eth and shael's part. What will that do?

Thanks all. :wave:

[WNxBeeky]

My current necro is a lvl 84 summonancer (in hardcore)

Maxed mastery and skels (both at lvl 33 after skillers)
1 in mages and revives, 1 in all curses, and 1 in CG, BG and IG, GM, and SR.

I have Corpse explosion around lvl 15 after skillers, along with 1 point in bone armor, and maxed bone wall. This absorbs 420 melee dmg. :)

My might merc is lvl 84 - equipped with a Hone Sundan (shaeled - not much else atm), a rattle cage and sazabis helm). Total of 65% crushing blow is fantastic against anything big and +1 skills helps boost skelli dmg a lot.

All i can say is that i rarely use revives or mages. I have 13 skels that deal fantastic dmg with might and amp. They stick with me all the time, and in single player mf runs, lvl 15 CE in combo is awesome.

I use Irongolem for general monster clearing (e.g the pits) since with its 350% dmg returned it can be used easily to create the first few corpses for skels. I would change to CG for baal or meph, but only if my IG was made from something worthless.

Skel mastery is vitaliy important to skels, so i suggest u max that to. (think raised = more skels. Mastery = better quality skels)

I found that after i maxed RS and SM and one point in all curses that there was not much else i could spend points on. (in the end i went bone armor synergy for saftey in hell - and it is well worth it.) :)

[mes_uno]

I don't get that part with the Chu-ko-nu with the eth and shael's part. What will that do?

Thanks all. :wave:


The Chu-Ko-Nu is a very fast base speed weapon which can reach 11FPA with only 9 Ias. By socketing it with EthEthEthEth it gets -100% target def which works on bosses where as Ignore Targets Defense (ITD) does not.

This makes it a very good weapon for hitting rapidly to deal crushing blow dmg, if you are wearing crushing blow gear. I find that if you carry goblin toe boots/Guillaume's Face you have time to switch back to your mf gear before baal actually dies. This gives you 60% crushing blow.

You can also use a 6 socketed phase blade EthEthEthEthShael + socket of your choice. I personally don't like the fact that you have to go melee against baal with it, and it has a much higher dexterity requirement than the chu-ko-nu. Crushing blow from melee attacks does, however, do more dmg than from ranged 1/10th targets current life removed, as opposed to 1/16th.

The Chu-Ko-Nu takes a little longer to kill, but in my opinion is safer which, to me, is more important in HC.

[patheticloser]

This thread has given me a lot to think about, my summonmnacer is at lvl 50. I have marrowwalks, and when I put it on I will have a lvl 30 SM.

Clearly I want a might merc, and I have a reapers toll to put on him, which means I can move decrip off of my hotkeys and replace it with dim to take care of thsoe @#$&^@ gloams. I have a rattlecage, and as soon as I see a shael drop I am going to upgrade it. Also, I think I will move the CG off of the hotkey, I only cast it when I first enter a game, as he almost never dies. If I ever build another summonor I will only put points in CG as prereqs for summon resist.

I was wondering what to do with the "extra" skill points. After maxing RS I plan on alternating between CE, Wall and SM (I will need the elemental damage against IP's in hell, and they are not affected by the IM curse). Combined with the marrowalk bug I should be able to have a nice bone armor.

It seems the general consensus on revives is that they suck. I agree! The best stragegy seems to be to only use them to raise the monstors before baal's minions come up. Perhaps they could come in handy in hell pit runs.


Also, WITH DECRIP ON BAAL WILL NOT TELEPORT. Try it, you will see what I am talking about.

I have a question regarding the Iron Golumn. I know it takes on properties of the item you use to create it. But what does that mean? If you use a Rattlecage to raise it will it get crushing blow? Can you make and Iron Golumn out of any metal item, or just normal ones?

[mes_uno]

Clearly I want a might merc, and I have a reapers toll to put on him, which means I can move decrip off of my hotkeys and replace it with dim to take care of thsoe @#$&^@ gloams. I have a rattlecage, and as soon as I see a shael drop I am going to upgrade it. Also, I think I will move the CG off of the hotkey, I only cast it when I first enter a game, as he almost never dies. If I ever build another summonor I will only put points in CG as prereqs for summon resist.

I was wondering what to do with the "extra" skill points. After maxing RS I plan on alternating between CE, Wall and SM (I will need the elemental damage against IP's in hell, and they are not affected by the IM curse). Combined with the marrowalk bug I should be able to have a nice bone armor.

Also, WITH DECRIP ON BAAL WILL NOT TELEPORT. Try it, you will see what I am talking about.



A few things here:

Rattlecage:- I don't think this is worth upgrading. The defence is all that will increase, and as the high def comes from +200 to defence, rather than +%def the increase will only be a hundred or so. If you have the stuff to burn feel free though. This is probably best placed on a might merc.

Reapers Toll/Decrepify: While the decrepify on reapers toll appears to be useful, you may find you still want it hotkeyed. When you find your minions scattered for example, or to curse a large group immediately on first contact.

Clay Golem:- Probably the single best use for clay golem is to cast immediately next to a Boss monster. A single hit will significantly slow the target. The damage the golem actually deals is negligible however.

Physical Immunes:- Why are you using Iron Maiden (IM)? The damage per second from this is utterly negligible compared to the damage you are missing out on from Amplify Dmg with your skeletons. Also Amp has the ability to break almost all physical immunities in the game. I Have only found one monster that I couldn't break in getting to Hell A5, and that was a random unique, not any boss that you would be likely to run.

Also one point in Skeleton Mage, with the plus skills you should have will probably give you four or five mages without wasting more points there.

[patheticloser]

[QUOTE=mes_uno]A few things here:

Physical Immunes:- Why are you using Iron Maiden (IM)? The damage per second from this is utterly negligible compared to the damage you are missing out on from Amplify Dmg with your skeletons. Also Amp has the ability to break almost all physical immunities in the game. I Have only found one monster that I couldn't break in getting to Hell A5, and that was a random unique, not any boss that you would be likely to run.

QUOTE]


Sorry, I was not clear in my origional post. I never use IM, those darn caster knights use it on me. It reaks havock on almost anything that deals out phisical damage, including my sleletons. My thought was that an army of mages will not do phisical damage, and should be imune to the IM curse.

[Knightmare]

Ok. So I've picked out a few VERY good pointers thus far.

-Get a might merc and equip him with crushing blow
-DO NOT use poison skills when you're a summoner; use maxed CE
-Slow Target and Decripify works great against Baal
-Crushing Blow is good....for..............umm......Baal :surprise:
-MAX SM/RS
-No more than one point in Revive, Golems, Skeleton Mage, Curses, SR, GM

................ :(

I'm still confused about some things. How does Iron Golem work? What "things" are best to summon it from? And why?

Will the Crushing Blow from my might merc be enough or should I socket a Phase Blade or Chu-Ko-Nu (a random one of any type?) with Eth's and a Shael for more ambitious damage?

Why should there be a point in every curse? It'll be hard to hotkey all of them and doesn't everyone use Amp Damage and Decripify and maybe Lower Resist only?

Hmm...well I've managed to structure an adequate guide with a few loose screws out of all of these super duper responses. Thanks all! :thumbsup: [No sarcasm intended; it's the truth! :fish:]

I think I will: Continue to Max Skeleton Mastery and Corpse Explosion, and put 1 point in Amp Damage and Decrep, and Clay Golem, Iron Golem, Summon Resist, Golem Mastery, Skeleton Mage, and Revive (72 points used) until I feel it's safe to go on in a good direction that will make good use of the 30 remaining points or so.

Thanks!

[disci]

You might want these curses atleast: Amp, attract, decrep, dim.
Amp and decrep are obivious, but attract is handy on situations where fighting vs some really hard monster pack. Just curse few "normal" monsters from pack and the rest of the pack focus theyr hits on those monsters. That way your summons can get some "free" hits behind monsters back.
Dim vision is your only way to deal vs those crappy golams/black souls. Other way they WILL give you headache you have never had before.

By the way Attract cant be over run by another curse so you can cast Amp etc. on rest of the monsters and attracted monsters remain cursed.

[Vizier]

By socketing it with EthEthEthEth it gets -100% target def which works on bosses where as Ignore Targets Defense (ITD) does not.


For 1.09, crushing blow was not supposed to be summed up, but reversely compounded (if that is the right phrase to use). 4 eths would have given you -60-70% or so, not 100%. It's still has a good effect though. 1.10 may have changed this, but I havent' heard anyone say anything about this. Dont' be fooled by what the item display says (100%).

[Vizier]

Oh and lastly -
Dex is pumped to keep my block around 66% (highly recommended if you do Pit Runs).


My Pit runner works fine without any block.. but then his minions take care of that. I find blocking relatively useless for a summoner, except versus slingers.

[spuddogg]

True.
Blocking is handy for slingers and those damn quill rats (as well as the burning archers).
My philosophy on blocking is this -
I can take 50 points and put it into vit giving me 100 HPs, or I can take those same 50 points and put 'em into dex, significantly increasing block rate.
Considering that the typical build in the mid-80's is going to have around 900-1000 HPs, I'd personally much rather have the ability to block any damage than the extra HPs to absorb it.

[xeyloderixed]

my current necro is lvl 92 (ehcl), with very similar build to my deceased lvl 96 necro (also ehcl).

skills
20 raise skeleton
20 skeleton mastery
1 summon resist and all prereqs

1 decrepify and all prereqs

20 bone spear
20 bone wall
rest in bone spear synergies (i did bone spirit, but you can do teeth too)

stats
minimum str for gear (for me, this turns out to be in the mid 80s)
dex for max block
rest vita

gear
p topaz shako
p topaz skullders
2x 30mf nagels
tgods
marrowalks
maras
frosburns
wizspike

might merc, with eth shako, (really bad armor), and tomb reaver, with hone sundan in weap switch (crushing blow against baal)

statistics:
980ish life
800ish mana
850+ absorb on bone armor
11 skeletons, although im 1 point short of 12
2.7k bone spear damage
2.8k bone spirit damage (but i never use this...)
merc does 1k-3.3k damage, kinda low but i havent upgraded his weap yet (he does just fine in single player, trouble starts in 8p games. and yes, i used to do this with the 96 necro)

items you HAVE to have for this build are tgods and marrows. uber items are not as needed; with just these two you should survive the gloams and do around 1.2k spear damage.

and just for fun:
differences between this necro and the dead one:
1.2k life
1.1k mana
13 skeletons
2.5k spear damage (because i put in 1 point in some of the unnecessary skills, like lower res)
1k-5k merc damage, with 220ed cmoon ogre axe
2 sojs replace 2 nagels

hope this helps.

[Knightmare]

Very interesting. But I figured that I'd also try Pit Runs with this summoner. I'm not too sure on what mf gear I should use for both Pit Runs and Baal Runs in Hell.

My necromancer is now lvl 75 and my might merc is 70 I think.

I've maxed:
RS/SM

I have 1 point in:
Amp and Decrep
Corpse Explosion
Iron Golem
Summon Resist
Revive
and all their preq

I have 30 remaining skill points to use. You see I'm in a tough position of undecisiveness. :scratch:

Because I gave away my primal MF gear to my brother for his Hammerdin, I use Tal Rasha's Armor, Tal Mask, Tal Belt, Ali Baba, Homonculus, A rare amulet with at least +2 necro skills, a rare ring with resists and 10 mf, some other rare ring, 36 Chance Guards, and Tearhaunch for my Mfing purposes. This is probably why I'm doing pretty bad in Hell; even in the pits. I'm okay with surviving, but my minions are pretty slow with killing monsters and whenever I'm in the pit with a horde of lady archers, my minions seem to go for the other baddies instead of them. It's hard to command them and I'd have to risk myself by running pass the group of archers so that my minions would shift their attention. Times like these make me wish I had a direct damage skill.

I have 30 remaining skill points left to use but for what? I don't think putting anymore points into the summoning tree will help. With RS and SM already maxed, I'm pretty sure building the other skills in the summong skill won't help my minion's killing speed.

I'm still skeptical about putting any points into the other curses like Attract. Should I really max CE because the monsters would be in a group when I use it anyway. Should I get a direct damage skill like Bone Spear? Then I'd have to worry about its synergies.

I'm scared to move... :hanky:

[Absolutian]

The Chu-Ko-Nu is a very fast base speed weapon which can reach 11FPA with only 9 Ias. By socketing it with EthEthEthEth it gets -100% target def which works on bosses where as Ignore Targets Defense (ITD) does not.

This makes it a very good weapon for hitting rapidly to deal crushing blow dmg, if you are wearing crushing blow gear. I find that if you carry goblin toe boots/Guillaume's Face you have time to switch back to your mf gear before baal actually dies. This gives you 60% crushing blow.

You can also use a 6 socketed phase blade EthEthEthEthShael + socket of your choice. I personally don't like the fact that you have to go melee against baal with it, and it has a much higher dexterity requirement than the chu-ko-nu. Crushing blow from melee attacks does, however, do more dmg than from ranged 1/10th targets current life removed, as opposed to 1/16th.

The Chu-Ko-Nu takes a little longer to kill, but in my opinion is safer which, to me, is more important in HC.

Three items here:
1) As this poster said: A Chu-Ko-Nu is only 9IAS away from maximum. A Shael is overkill here, and it would be better to use a 15IAS jewel with some nice second mod. In fact, 10 IAS is easy to get other places, especially some blood gloves, which would give some crushing blow, too.

2) I read a post somewhere else saying that ETH's are nerfed to half effectiveness against bosses. So the four ETH's give only 50% defence reduction (I think another poster here is also worried about that). Anyone can confirm?

3) I agree about crushing through the missile attacks. While the crush is cut in half, you can stay in there twice as long with the missile, as opposed to melee.

[Peacrusher]

I'll pop in my 2 cents too....

Well the rattlecage is a great armor to upgrade though it is a heavy armor class and will slow who ever wears it down.... the def is not bad either... but the CB is really why you would want that armor anyway.

I uped rattlecage for my thrower barb. It ups to a embossed plate, the def is right around 500 so not horrible. I socketed with a 15% jewel to boost my ias
That with g face and gore's give me 75% CB... For a merc I would seriously think about a hone sundan since that would be 105% CB? 45% Rattlecage, 25% Gface, and isn't hone 45% too? I can't check the numbers here at work but It gives you an idea.

[GenXCub]

I use my summoner to MF the pits. He uses a Harlequin Crest, Skullders (both ptopaz), goldwrap, Trangs gloves, Marrowwalk, WS1 is gravenspine/Homunculus (looking for a Carin Shard), and WS2 is Ali Baba/Rhyme. I have about 50% MF in charms.

I play hardcore, so I'm not about to go putting on War traveler or Chance guards for a small increase in actual MF (after diminishing returns).

I put 2 dex/3 vit per level after my STR requirements are met. I have almost 1000 hp and 62% Blocking at level 84. Once I get my hands on a 15% MF tals belt, I'll swap that for the goldwrap since I could really use the 20 DEX on there to help the blocking.

I've found that if you have a Ali Baba (or gull)/Rhyme switch, your skellies don't die immediately from losing skill levels, it happens at a certain interval (it differs from time to time), so if I time it for when I'm killing champions and bosses, I generally don't lose any skellies.

I haven't run hell baal with him yet, so I can't give a good analysis for that.

As far as why to put 1 in each curse, Decrepify and Attract are necessities, and I finish the center route just to help sorcs, ele druids, and shockadins when I'm partied.

[Zazu]

my build:

maxed skelletons and mastery, maxed mages (wrong, shuld have given to bone wall or spear instead) (13 skellies and 13 mages all the time)
1 revive point (12 after +skills)
1 clay,
1 all curses
10 CE (~20 lvl after +skill items)
maxing BS now


setup:

chako, perf topaz
vipermage armor
wisp projector ring (nagels in switch)
rare belt and rare 2 ring with res mana life and some strenght
homo with perf. diamond
amu + 3 summon and 35 % MF
marrowalks when i give more str, now silkweave
arm of king leoric (godly for summoner)

I change my gear to nagels, goldwrap, alibaba and rhyme runeword + chances when baal is about to die. About 400 % MF, can be more ut i need room for resistance % charms.

lvl 87 1150 life/650 mana, ~50 % block, resistances up to 70+.

I died once. ONCE. My merc does up to 4000 dmg. About 40 monsters raised, anyway revives suck coz they dissapear very fast.

Plain tactic for baal runs:

Go to Pindle garden, raise skeletons and mages (if u use) wp down to lvl 2, cast golem and dim vision or attract ahead. Amp whole buch after they swarm around attracted monster+ use CE. Go and kill all with this method. Using revives raise only "good" monsters, like Black Souls, Moonlords, Vipermages (these that use Bone spear). 5 Bal minins groups are pretty easy. Baal is worse ifyou havent crushing blow on merc, hmmm. And now I have a question to all who tried:

What whould you recommend for merc: 1.) a lot of crushing blow items, Hone Sundan+Guilaume Face to knock Baal down with hp or 2.) make Crescent Moon runeword polearm and cast static field (20 % chance and its large radius for other monsters too, its lvl 13 static field:)

I just dont know if it makes sense to waste UM rune if Crescent Moon sucks. Did anyone use it before?

[Zon2000]

Crushing Blow is much better than Crescent Moon's static field - I wouldn't waste an UM rune just for that.

Hone + Guillame's, that's 45% + 35% = 80% chance.
Crescent Moon: 7% chance (NOT 20%)

Also, because Static Field is considered a lightning attack, it's affected by lightning resistance. AND... on Hell it's capped at 50% of a monster's health. So once Baal is at 50% or lower health, it's useless. Crushing Blow does not have this 50% cap.

[HarbingersOfSkulls]

my build:

maxed skelletons and mastery, maxed mages (wrong, shuld have given to bone wall or spear instead) (13 skellies and 13 mages all the time)
1 revive point (12 after +skills)
1 clay,
1 all curses
10 CE (~20 lvl after +skill items)
maxing BS now


setup:

chako, perf topaz
vipermage armor
wisp projector ring (nagels in switch)
rare belt and rare 2 ring with res mana life and some strenght
homo with perf. diamond
amu + 3 summon and 35 % MF
marrowalks when i give more str, now silkweave
arm of king leoric (godly for summoner)

I change my gear to nagels, goldwrap, alibaba and rhyme runeword + chances when baal is about to die. About 400 % MF, can be more ut i need room for resistance % charms.

lvl 87 1150 life/650 mana, ~50 % block, resistances up to 70+.

I died once. ONCE. My merc does up to 4000 dmg. About 40 monsters raised, anyway revives suck coz they dissapear very fast.

Plain tactic for baal runs:

Go to Pindle garden, raise skeletons and mages (if u use) wp down to lvl 2, cast golem and dim vision or attract ahead. Amp whole buch after they swarm around attracted monster+ use CE. Go and kill all with this method. Using revives raise only "good" monsters, like Black Souls, Moonlords, Vipermages (these that use Bone spear). 5 Bal minins groups are pretty easy. Baal is worse ifyou havent crushing blow on merc, hmmm. And now I have a question to all who tried:

What whould you recommend for merc: 1.) a lot of crushing blow items, Hone Sundan+Guilaume Face to knock Baal down with hp or 2.) make Crescent Moon runeword polearm and cast static field (20 % chance and its large radius for other monsters too, its lvl 13 static field:)

I just dont know if it makes sense to waste UM rune if Crescent Moon sucks. Did anyone use it before?


My merc uses Bramble/GA, Tal's helm, and bonehew..when using GA his resists are all 90's...when in Bramble it's 75's(85 in lightning)

He kills quick enough for me along with 13 Skeletons & Mages....for lagging purposes I can add another 15 Revives if needed.

HoSv1

[Zazu]

Crescent Moon: 7% chance (NOT 20%)


Well, I looked at diabloii.net data, someone tell them that it's really 7 % not 20 % (HUGE difference!) http://www.diabloii.net/items/runes/runewords-weapons.shtml

k, thx a lot, UM saved ;)

[Absolutian]

I'll pop in my 2 cents too....

Well the rattlecage is a great armor to upgrade though it is a heavy armor class and will slow who ever wears it down.... the def is not bad either... but the CB is really why you would want that armor anyway.



Slight correction: Rattlecage/Gothic plate is a medium armor. Gives you a 5% speed/stamina penalty, not 10%.

[GordusMxus]

I obtained a NM combat merc (thorns) to use with amp damage. I don't know why some say this is not viable- in fact, mine is the first pro-thorns merc post Ive read (I am new to this forum so I've missed a lot no doubt). It works great- fast killing speed in almost all situations, allowing my 7/7 skels and mages to survive reasonably well.

As to the merc build, at lvl 85, he uses the hone sundan, a Tal mask (10 life steal), and ethereal boneweave at 1350 def socketed with an UM, other socket to be filled later, giving him full resists and huge defense. He can slug it out with 5 Venom Lords simultaneously, his only problem is getting cursed and my losing track of him in huge melee battles.
(All this equip. is found items).

Make no mistake- he is the keystone of my system. When he dies, the difference is dramatic- the game is suddenly very threatening. When he lives its fairly easy. This guy is indespensible.

I can attack Hell Baal on the bridge using my merc, golem, one or two skels, and decrepify, and have him down in 2 or 3 minutes, while quafing purple pots (low resists)
Finally, I find revives to be of huge service, especially big brutes or ranged attackers. Sure, they get lost, but wtf, just cast some new ones at will. I use 8 at a time. I tell them "You're workin for me now!"

When in doubt, overwhelm the enemy with numbers. With thorns and amp damage its hard to lose.

[jmprockstar]

First of all, this is quite an outstanding thread. :thumbsup:

I have opted out of the crushing blow method and chosen the coffee drinking method (since I usually play this game in the morning as I wake up in the morning). I put a Tomb Reaver and 3 Ptopazed Gris Armor on my Might Mercenary. When I can get a GuiFace, I'll put it on him for some crushing blow. Afer all, I'm not opposed to it, but I don't prefer it to more MF (more on this later). Until then, I have a Peasant Crown for the extra life leech. I lucked out, and the Tomb Reaver rolled the maximum three sockets, so I might throw in another Amn (one already in it) to keep his LL around 14% and then an Eth (if it's worth it). I'm not sure yet. Anyway, the Tomb Reaver I have rolled low on the MF mod, at 55% (out of a 50-80% range :( ), but with the Gris armor, he still gives me 127%.

My lvl 88 Summoner has the following setup:

Helm: Andy's Visage (haven't gotten around to trading for a Shako, although I should. Until then, I use Helm 2, instead)
Helm 2: 3 ptopaz death mask (switch to this when I get to Baal; used to use a Tarn)
Armor: Skullder's
Weapon: Leo (Baba on switch; no ptopazes yet :uhhuh: )
Shield: Pdiamond Homunc (Rhyme on switch)
Ammy 1: +3 Summoning ammy (when buffing)
Ammy 2: +20 Resist all & +30 MF ammy (I've had this since Nightmare; could I personalize it, perhaps?)
Ammy 3: Tele Ammy, when I'm in a hurry
Ring 1: Nagel
Ring 2: Ravenfrost
Gloves: Chancies
Belt: IK belt, for resistances
Boots: Marrows

I have a few 6%mf small charms in my inventory. Strangely, people don't want these; they simply MUST have 7%. So, I use them and don't have to wear a Goldwrap or a second Nagel. Once I get a Shako and maybe a Tal belt, I think I'll have a complete setup. For now, I still have almost 500% (with merc) when wearing the 3ptopaz helm. I wasn't sure if this amount was worth it, but Baal always drops a unique (even if it isn't very good) when I'm wearing all my MF gear. Today, I got The Minotaur (unique ancient axe). I don't think I'd even heard of this item until it dropped. If Shael'ed or 40/15'ed, it wouldn't be that bad for SS Druids, or so I'll tell the people I'll try to trade with ;)

I always clear the WSK, unless there are lots of Oblivion Knights. I've said elsewhere that I find just as many good items there as I do from Baal himself. However, if I run into Black Souls, I usually TP and put on a spare Viper in my stash and play on. Even when I switch from baba/rhyme to leo/homunc and wear Viper instead of Skullders, I have over 200% MF. As has been said here many times before, you can't MF if you're always dying. So I always adjust gear according to monsters I roll, having gotten a Nat's Claw with the "safety" gear on.

Let me be the one that stands up for mages. I maxxed the skill and use it to summon mostly cold and poison mages. With poison mages, I'm less worried about monster heal, since their poison duration is so long. With cold mages, I can stop using Decrep and use Amp. Let me explain: When you have around a lvl 12 CG, Decrep, and a chilled Baal, he can barely move. If you switch from Decrep to Amp, he can get one attack off every 15-20 seconds (usually the mana burn hose). This attack, however, computes somehow as interupted. Even though you get the animation, you don't get the effect. So I've been using Amp of Decrep because of my cold mages. It speeds things up quite a bit.

[GordusMxus]

I was trolling my team through Lower Kurast last night with my max MF gear- 230%, and nothing was popping beyond the usual rares. Then, out of a champion buzzard popped a blue collosus voulge. I almost didnt ID it, but since my backpack had room I decided to. My jaw dropped when I read the damage: Cruel collosus voulge: 65-635, normal speed! However, the strength was 210, my merc having 188. I just happened to have a jewel that gives -15 requirements plus +38% ED! I visited Larzuk who gave this stick the one socket needed. In went the jewel- lvl needed=58, strength went down to 179, and damage is now 73-716. Total of 334% ED.

Gulzar: (hell)
lvl 86
Damage: 374-2246
Defense: 2841
resists: all 75

Crushing blow gives, what, 50% ED? With the hone sundan Gulzar was doing 425-850 (roughly) so CB would make that 1300 or so? So the going with the Cruel stick seems like a no brainer. Now if I can add some CB mods with the Guil. face that would be the shiznits!

[WNxBeeky]

Maybe i caught it wrong but -

AFAIK, Crushing blow reduces the enemies hp's by 25% or something (a bit like static field). Thus a merc with 60% CB has a 6/10 chance of reducing 8 player Hell Baal's hp's by 25%. I didnt think it adds any hidden ed....

I would pick a 1-2 dmg weapon with 100% cB over any high dmg weapon. CB rules for boss targets, especially with necros.

[nemar]

I don't think 25% in one shoot with player 8 is good

think to a zealot with 5 attack :lol:

[Absolutian]

Maybe i caught it wrong but -

AFAIK, Crushing blow reduces the enemies hp's by 25% or something (a bit like static field). Thus a merc with 60% CB has a 6/10 chance of reducing 8 player Hell Baal's hp's by 25%. I didnt think it adds any hidden ed....

I would pick a 1-2 dmg weapon with 100% cB over any high dmg weapon. CB rules for boss targets, especially with necros.

There are separate CB %'s for bosses/specials (and pvp). Against bosses/specials, it's no longer 1/4, but 1/8 and 1/10. (Or vice versa; can't recall, and no real difference).

Also, don't mercs get a penalty vs bosses? And does that apply to cb, too?

[Frosin]

I just run onto the bridge , decrep and tp out and back in for easy control of skele to swarm it, or you can just tele if you have them.

[gvandale]

I tried to steer clear of this thread yesterday, but I can't now. I saw the original poster put down (like 4th post for him on this thread) that POISON is no good for bosses.

Explain to me how you stop monster regeneration? A CB build doesn't have this, and your merc with all cb gear won't have it either. True Baal will be your *****hh, but what about DClone (I like to hunt him down)? I think a EXTREMELY viable build would be as mentioned before summon / poison hybrid.

For your skell's to be effective they must be maxed (20) and mastery should be as well (20) with the appropriate curses (decrep / amp / all ai / pre-req's) that comes to (7) plus gumby and mastery / resist (3) thats a whopping 50 skill points. Leaving you with another roughly 40 points before you peter out in terms of leveling.

So why not dump 1 into teeth / ce / poison dagger / bone armor / bone wall / 0 bone prison (use marrow's) leaving you to max poison nova / and dump 15 or so into poison explosion.

If you have good +skills gear, your skellies will ****, your PN will make killing that much quicker, and your measly level 1 ce will be about level 10-15 after your items.

And now you can equip your might merc with ALL crushing blow, and call it a day!

g

p.s.
If your skells are getting distracted, make sure to have a teleport item (my fav other then enigma is the Naj's Set Item Weapon which is cheap and has 68 charges of teleport) so you can just teleport your entire army over to baal himself. make sure to have max block (use HOMO or a good high block rhyme) and if they get distracted, tele again and again on top of his punk asss.

g out for good.

[GordusMxus]

Thank you WxnBeeky. I stand corrected- I was thinking of Critical strike but I had the numbers wrong anyway.
Game play has confirmed the superiority of crushing blow- in a 3 player game with 2 Bowazons, my merc equiped with a cruel voulge w/o CB could not make a dent in hell baal. The Zons died repeatedly, whined about pots and arrows, my golem, merc, and 3 skels hammered on baal for about 5 mins with meager results. Decreping him on the bridge prevented him from moving or teleporting, at least. My mistake was trying to speed up things by throwing amp damage which allowed him a breather and he 'ported away which suddenly gave him new determination and made things much harder. One of the Zons finally produced a poison spear which helped a lot. It took 10 minutes overall to whittle him down, and he popped mediocre stuff.

I switched back to the Hone Yari, it works MUCH better.

And yes, big poison seems like a great idea, however you can get it.

[XG_Darkside]

Explain to me how you stop monster regeneration? A CB build doesn't have this, and your merc with all cb gear won't have it either. True Baal will be your *****hh, but what about DClone (I like to hunt him down)? I think a EXTREMELY viable build would be as mentioned before summon / poison hybrid.

Placing 30+ points into the poison tree just to hunt down DClone seems like an inefficient use of skill points to me. No other enemy in the game heals fast enough to make poison/prevent monster heal necessary. I've tried both the poison/summoner and bone/summoner hybrid and from my experience neither one is way to go. As I already stated, poison just isn't worth it except for DClone and personally I get tired of having to spam Poison Nova every 2 seconds. A skellemancer has a lot of micromanagement going on and I don't have time to use PN that often. If it had a longer duration it would really help but I still don't think it would be worth it unless it's fully synergized and that would take too many skill points and some different equipment that wouldn't be as good for a skellemancer.

Bone hybrid is basically the same story. It's very important to have all your bone synergies maxed out and your +skills on the bone tree in order to make bone spear/spirt worth it. Even using the marrowwalk method you won't do enough damage to justify the skill points you're using. In addition to that, those bone skills cost a significant amount of mana if you want to use them at a constant rate and a skellemancer build is usually not geared toward mana production or mana regeneration.

So....you're remaining 20-30 skills points would probably be best used to increase CE and/or the curses you use most. What I found with my bone/summoner and poison/summoner hybrids was that I was just using my skellies/CE/Curses and neglecting the poison and bone skills. If you're not gonna use the skills you might as well just add points to the skills you're using most. I know that CE and the curses don't really need more points to be effective if you have a lot of +skills but at least I'm getting something out of my points by putting them into skills that I use all the time.

My overall philosophy- Put the skill points in the skills you use 95+% of the time and carry an extra piece of equipment in your stash or on your switch to take care of those rare occasions you need prevent monster heal or lightning absorb or something similar to that. Don't create your character for fighting DClone but keep in mind what you're going to use against him if and when you do get lucky enough to spawn him.

[gvandale]

with the right gear, stat, skill placement a hybrid can be a very formidable character for any part of the game. DClone was my original reason for this build, but has since been found to really do some good.

There's times where my skell's get swamped and don't drop a body immediately (read: No use for ce here) so that is where it's extremely helpful to get something to widdle down monster life.

Curses? I think that any more then 1 base is overkill. WHY? With a good amount of +skills, then your curse radius becomes too large and it is hard to effectively manage your cursing.

This is all just my personal preference. But I have noticed that my killing power in hell is unbelievable. Baal / Diablo / DC all have good regen rates. Ever wonder why alot of the new uniques have PMH whereas before they didn't? It's important.

All poison may not do the trick, I know this. But that is why max skelly / mastery is crucial. That way, it's like the best of both worlds.

I think a boner / summoner is spread too thin, but a summon - venom is right on point.

my personal opinion.

g