THE THROWING BARB THREAD- any tips would be nice....

[chadinoogachoochoo]

ther aren't many threads for throwers, and since i am starting a new one, any help would be sweet, what kind of stat point distribution should i have? skills? etc. right now i am going 3 dex, 1 str 1 vit per lvl, that good? any comments and help would be cool.

[NickRivers]

I have a thrower barb. don't have much time for advice, but I use a might merc, elite unique throwing weapons. The little Axes are the best because even though they don't replenish, there are enough of them to keep going for a while in between repairs. Don't have the winged knives, but those seem like they would be good as well. The real advantage to the axes though is the high elemental damage--p immunes fall pretty fast.
On weapon switch I use a couple of the hyperion javs, which are fast and replenish. I also sometimes use my ghost glaive. The problem with these are that even though they replenish, you are throwing so fast that they run out very quickly. It's not like a LF javazon where the majority of the damage you do is due to the lighting bolts. My damage is around 5000 Average for most of the weapons (the glaive is more, but slower). which is enough to solo in Hell. basically max double swing, and throwing mastery, put minimal points in the actual double throw, and for a fun time, use frenzy (and a different weapon mastery) to really throw fast. when combined with a fanat paly, you really throw FAST, it is kind of funny.
That's all I have time for, but hope it helped.

[chadinoogachoochoo]

thanks for the info, any other people? what should my stats go into?

[PoopyPants]

have you tried searching? I've posted a number of threads about this most of them more than 1 page.

[boochie61]

I don't like might mercs with my throw barbs. I've posted about this endlessly, but I'll do it one more time. With throw barbs, you don't need more damage, you need space. Holy freeze is far more valuable than more damage. You throw so fast as a throw barb, that damage is more than compensated by a lower damage. You can't max life with a throw barb, especially with minimal double throw as most people do (I don't because I like to hit the target every time) because you need maximum dex to make up for it. If you have over 3K life with bo with a throw barb, you've wrecked the build. The whole point of the build is to NOT get hit. It's a gamble, but it works. Your damage with dual gimmers will be over 4k and as high as 6k without a might merc. Trust me, this is plenty of damage as long as you get your ias over 100. There really isn't a reason to get a max might aura merc, other than bragging rights. You kill slower with holy freeze, but you don't get hit anywhere near as much. At 88 my throw barb can solo anywhere in hell now because I built the crud out of my merc and he can do some serious tanking keeping the attention off of me, allowing me to protect him. It's win win.
Now for a less serious question, have any of you throwers out there notice that Diablo always picks you out when casting. It doesn't matter where I go, he is focused on me. I've never had any of my other characters have that happen, but the members of my clan thinks its hysterical that I have to leave leap attack on when killing D because I'm having to leap out of the way all the time.

[Mr Evil]

...Now for a less serious question, have any of you throwers out there notice that Diablo always picks you out when casting. It doesn't matter where I go, he is focused on me. I've never had any of my other characters have that happen, but the members of my clan thinks its hysterical that I have to leave leap attack on when killing D because I'm having to leap out of the way all the time.
I heard a theory that bosses target the player with the highest damage. If you have close to 6k as you suggested, then that would be why. I do find that bosses will almost always target my IK barb over any other party member, which would tend to support the theory, since he does about 6k damage, whereas my zealot Paladin who does less than 2k damage is often ignored completely.

[juhnny]

I noticed that today doing some d-runs - he always spit fire at me. I wasl wtf pick on someone else-lol. I have to disagree with you on the might merc sort of. If you got the right gear then you should go with a might merc. Here is my mercs set up.

lvl 73 might merc
helm -delirium(crowd control)
armor - COH(life leech-reisist)
wpn- eth DOOM crypt axe(holy freeze for crowd control)

This set up works great. Merc Has full resist and the mods on the delirium have the other monsters fighting themselves. I use an enigma on my barb so what I do is just tele right near the monsters and my mercs holy freeze and might aura kicks in instantly. I then either start throwing away or move back depending on the situation. My only problem right now is my resist suck. There 22/1/7/1. I am using arreats/goreriders/razortail/crafted gloves/dual ravens/rare +2 ammy. I am gonna have to start sacrificing some stuff to get better resist.

[AFBrat]

What do you guys think of Lacerater Winged Axe for a throw Barb, I found one today (201% ED) and it looks like a wicked weapon, just trying to get expert advice for throw barb weapon?

[Amnesiac249]

Which mercs add holy freeze and which add might? Also, about how much vit should I add before stopping? I may have already screwed this part up...

edit: also, how useful is frenzy for a thrower, and how many skills should I put in it? Would I be better off putting them into double throw for accuracy? Or in something else?

[WackenOpenAir]

I don't like might mercs with my throw barbs. I've posted about this endlessly, but I'll do it one more time. With throw barbs, you don't need more damage, you need space. Holy freeze is far more valuable than more damage. You throw so fast as a throw barb, that damage is more than compensated by a lower damage. You can't max life with a throw barb, especially with minimal double throw as most people do (I don't because I like to hit the target every time) because you need maximum dex to make up for it. If you have over 3K life with bo with a throw barb, you've wrecked the build. The whole point of the build is to NOT get hit. It's a gamble, but it works. Your damage with dual gimmers will be over 4k and as high as 6k without a might merc. Trust me, this is plenty of damage as long as you get your ias over 100. There really isn't a reason to get a max might aura merc, other than bragging rights. You kill slower with holy freeze, but you don't get hit anywhere near as much. At 88 my throw barb can solo anywhere in hell now because I built the crud out of my merc and he can do some serious tanking keeping the attention off of me, allowing me to protect him. It's win win.
Now for a less serious question, have any of you throwers out there notice that Diablo always picks you out when casting. It doesn't matter where I go, he is focused on me. I've never had any of my other characters have that happen, but the members of my clan thinks its hysterical that I have to leave leap attack on when killing D because I'm having to leap out of the way all the time.

-I don't agree. How can extra damage not be important? you will need less axes to kill an enemy and when they are dead they wont hit you either. extra damage is very important actually. The barbarians damage sucks enough already.

The best thing is of course to have a might merc and equip it with the holy freeze runeword as someone stated above.

might = NM offensive
holy freeze = NM defensive

frenzy is not important for a thrower IMO. if you want a mellee skill for the purpose of having a mellee skill, double throw will be much better than a low lvl freny anyways. for the speed, you'd be wasting too much time charging it to really benefit overal. Also are you not supposed to get into mellee range most of the time anyways.

[boochie61]

Juhnny, you have the exception to the rule. Might merc would be the way to go if he is wearing something that gives holy freeze when equipped. I have had might mercs with my throw barbs the last few patches and I always end up scrapping them for a holy freeze merc instead. It's not much fun to me to be running around all the time to get to an area that's safe to throw from with monsters running full speed. Like I said, the sexiness of a high level might mercs is appealing but I'd rather protect myself and my party with a holy freeze merc. That's just my personal feeling, but I can see how others would like a might merc instead.
If only blizz would create a rune word armor, poleaxe, or helm that when equipped would give fanatacism, that would be awesome for any throw barb or bowazon.

[Pilsner]

i strongly advise you to not make a throw barb. i made one with the following gear:

lacerator, warshrike (both near perf)
2 x gimmers on switch for PI
naj's plate
arreat's
highlord's
verdungo's / razortail (for piercing)
dracul's (nerd perf)
ravenfrost+other ring
gore riders
annihilus

he SUCKS (sucked, stripping him of gear now). he dies very easily in hell even with max resists, shout, BO, etc. thanks to not having a shield. his melee damage is absolutely pathetic, it takes ages to kill things and you sometimes just have to give up against possessed, etc. even with a quick frenzy to increase attack speed, your damage will be laughable.

don't do it, they're worthless in late hell.

always try a build with the cubemod before you go far with it btw.

[boochie61]

I have no idea what you're talking about. That's funny, my throw barb is an 88 and rarely dies. He kills quickly, and the possessed take no more than 3 or 4 throws to kill. What did you do for skill point distribution. Not questioning you, just trying to figure out where you went wrong.
One thing I would suggest instead, is looking where you went wrong. I don't see too much ias on your build. My throw barbs typically have between -100-140ias. I don't think you have much that way at all. With gimmers your should have made 4-5k easy. What was your damage. Did you put massive ammounts in strength or vitality (my guess). This build needs dex, lots of it, more than twice the other two, and especially if you didn't invest much in double throw. I think that crow's caw (especially upgraded to 1120 def) is the way to go socketed with IAS jewel of course. I used to be an arreats guy too but I think the IK helm, with its two sockets are a better choice now, especially if you're going to use the boots and gloves.
As for damage, demon arch with holy freeze merc is over 6k if done right, and near 8 if you have a might merc. You didn't use an act 5 or 1 merc did you?
I'm trying to guess where you went wrong because I have had throw barbs for 3 straight patches now and they all rock.

[juhnny]

Here is a more detailed breakdown of my build (NL)

lvl 76
helm- ed/ias arreats(don't think there is a better helm)
ammy-rare (+2barb/10rw/19str/20dex/59li/57ma(Mara's another option)
rings-perf raven/rare dual leech/resist ring
belt-razortail (for the peirce/dex)
boots-goreriders
gloves-ias/dual leech/kb
armor-enigma(+2/teleport/str/MF)
wpn1-dual gimmers
wpn2-dual eth demon archs (have not found any lacerators yet)
(6)mastery GC's(best charms for this build-IMO)
Anni-15/19/6
(3)7/5res sc's
(3) high dmg psn sc's for extra elemental dmg

I like to leave 16 spaces open in my inventory to pick up anything good that might drop. Another tip for those who might not know. You can put TP's and ID scrolls in your belt. I usually have the first 2 rows with rejuvs the 3rd with manas(for mana burns) and the 4th with 2 ID's on top and 2TP's on the bottom. This saves space in your inventory and free's up 2 hotkeys.

BO-maxed
TM-maxed
DS-maxed
Shout-1
DT- 2
ironskin -1
Natural res-1
find potion-1
find item - 1
grim-1 comes in handy
These are higher with my GC's and gear

15 points left over -I have no idea where I'm gonna put the rest of the points.
Maybe Natural resist and or shout to be more party friendly.

str-103(194) Base str-enough for what ever armor your gonna use
dex-97(218) Adding to dex add's to AR and DMG .75 per point
vit-68(1005 w/ BO) will probably add enough to get me to 1500-2k life -then dump the rest in DEX
nrg-base

200 points left

resist - 64/33/39/39 - need to work on here!!!
AR=6700 need to work on
def-8100 w/ shout (not to concerned since I dont melee)

demon arch dmg - 5500-9100 w/ might merc
gimmers dmg - 1500-6010 w/ might merc

might merc lvl 76
helm - delirium (crowd control mods)
armor - coh(resist)
wpn - eth DOOM cryptic axe(holy freeze)
does 1550-6000 dmg

If you plan on making a throw barb be prepared to be patient with the build. It's not until you get into the higher levels(42+) does the barb really get fun. If you can afford some of the higher end gear listed above there even more fun. I would recommend a might merc for the higher dmg - even if you can't afford a DOOM wpn for him - the Delirium Helm works great. If you can get both your all set and you will never have to worry about crowd control. What I do is just teleport right into the action and the aura's kick in. Most of the time the mods on delirium kick in as well. So now you got monsters slowed down and attacking each other. This allows you to just fire away and pick off the helpless. If for some reason it gets testy I can either throw a GRIM ward and if I really need to evacuate I can just teleport out of danger. It's also pretty funny when my merc transforms into a stygian doll. He looks funny and kicks a$$. I have issues with my resistance. I can address it by looking for some resist all sc's and or change my ammy to a mara's but the mods on my rare are hard to give up. Also adding to natural resist will help. It's not a major problem because I could always teleport out of the way of stuff using elemental dmg. Since my merc has full resist I can just have him kill it.

Again as others have mentioned before, If you are used to killing everything and anything in seconds a throw barb is not for you. I have 1.10 hammerdin that can do this and a throw barb does not. The good thing about this build is you can get the high end wpns pretty cheap since most people don't play throw barbs. So get your gear first before others get on the band wagon.

[boochie61]

I took care of the resists with venom grips and infernostrides. I wasn't meaning to say that no one should get a might merc, I just prefer the holy freeze variety myself.
I haven't had any luck finding mastery charms this patch, I think I have one. I've found just about everything else including about 6 of the ultra useless defensive aura charms for pallys. The rest of my box is filled with vita resist charms and small psd (not much, only about 300 damage or so), and glimmering charms. These things are sweet. The last two I have are a gheed's and an anny (no one mentions this, but the gheed's may be as valuableto a throw barb as a mastery charm. Extra money and cheap repairs are a good things with a throw barb).
My problem is with people who claim throw barbs aren't viable in 1.10. There's been many a baal room that I have had to clear so people can get their bodies back with my little throw barb.
I have level 9 (13 with gear) natural resist. I would recommend that highly for someone that the gloam will target on. Actually after about 7 it gives a lot less bang for the buck, but I want to have as perfect resists as possible (75, 73, 75, 59).
You're right on about the vitality thing. If you go over 3k life the throw barb is ruined statswise, because it was built like a tank (max life), and throw barbs are snipers (sitting on the edge of the targets picking off one at a time, unnoticed). If you allow yourself to get surrounded you're dead so the best thing is to not get surrounded and kill everything quickly.

[Shadowshifter]

I am starting a ladder throwbarb and was just wondering one thing ... boochie, how did you get massive IAS with max resists? I know it's probably easy with natural resistances and the anya quests, but can you list your equipment?

[WackenOpenAir]

i strongly advise you to not make a throw barb. i made one with the following gear:

lacerator, warshrike (both near perf)
2 x gimmers on switch for PI
naj's plate
arreat's
highlord's
verdungo's / razortail (for piercing)
dracul's (nerd perf)
ravenfrost+other ring
gore riders
annihilus

he SUCKS (sucked, stripping him of gear now). he dies very easily in hell even with max resists, shout, BO, etc. thanks to not having a shield. his melee damage is absolutely pathetic, it takes ages to kill things and you sometimes just have to give up against possessed, etc. even with a quick frenzy to increase attack speed, your damage will be laughable.

don't do it, they're worthless in late hell.

always try a build with the cubemod before you go far with it btw.

A build is more than just some items (good sockets, good stats, good charms) sorry to say like that, but you can give a noob as many botd's and enigmas as he likes, he will still suck with it.

you need skill to use him. And you need some patience, maybe you played meteor sorces and hammerdins too much, barb simply dont have WOMD. Don't expect a barb to run trough the fields while everything dies as it gets on your screen.

Also, not everyone wants to use the easiest and most efficient build. unfortunately many do (looking at all those meteor sorces and hammerdins) My goal is to build a hardcore throw barb and solo him trough hell. I want a fun chalenge. (but first i need to obtain some wealth on the realm before i can do this)

[AFBrat]

No one answered my question directly, but I take it a 201% Lacerator is a good end-game throw-barb weapon for 1 of my 2 slots, I was thinking of upgrading my 194% unique Francisca as my other weapon. I like the fact that both replenish quantity. Good move or bad? Looks like it would do very nice damage upgraded.

[Shadowshifter]

I'm testing a throwbarb, and was wondering if approximately 150 Str/215 Dex/135 Vit would be good for the build or if dex needed to be pumped more..
how do you get ~6K damage with a holy freeze merc? I'm planning to use war shrikes and gimmershreds with ~95 IAS and full resists, but I'm not sure eq setup can attain this, or if it is even possible ... any help is appreciated

[Ifrit18]

The best gear set-up would be:

2 etheral warshrikes (deadly strike :teeth:) or 2 etheral lacerators (open wounds AND amp dmg!). I would say 2 etheral lacerators
Highlord's wrath= 20% ias and deadly strike. Can not be beaten!
Ravenfrost=Dex and att rating help and so does cannot be frozen
Ring= Dual leech ring would help if PvM with +resists
Gore riders= Deadly strike and more open wounds
Tgods vigor or verdungo= Extra life or dr % are always nice
Arreats= Best barb helm you can get
Gloves= 20% ias gloves with +stats and resists
Chains of honor= Why? A little dmg reduction, but you gain impressive resists which can free up charm slots

Lacerator has -10 speed and 30% ias so thats 40 ias%.

Highlords is another 20% ias
20% ias gloves

thats 80% ias and one free socket in arreats which leaves you a 15% ias jewel to socket in it.

Thats 95% ias right there. Good resists and should do fine in PvM too.

You get LL from arreats, dual leech ring, and chains of honor. You get a little ML from dual leech ring :teeth:.

I am clueless about skills and stats do don't ask ;).

[Shadowshifter]

Thanks-this is a great eq setup. I was just looking at the frame rates for using double throw with two war shrikes though, and I believe that to hit the 4 frame bp, a char needed 90 IAS, not counting the IAS from the weapons. (http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english)
However, I doubt that you can reach this breakpoint and still balance damage and resists ... what do you guys think?

[boochie61]

Thanks-this is a great eq setup. I was just looking at the frame rates for using double throw with two war shrikes though, and I believe that to hit the 4 frame bp, a char needed 90 IAS, not counting the IAS from the weapons. (http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english)
However, I doubt that you can reach this breakpoint and still balance damage and resists ... what do you guys think?
You almost have to get an upgraded crows caw or a triple ias jewel grizwolds armor, and you need a lot of sc's with resists, preferably with psd or a vita tag, or a glimmering designation. Your life still may be on the high side for this build a bit, and the strength definitely is too high unless you need that for your base equip. With equipment bonuses at level 88, my throw barb has 159 strength, the exact amount I need for an upgraded crows caw. My dex is about 290 at level 88 with equipment bonuses added in. Dex is damage with a throw barb, although you do get some from strength, but not like dex. Demon arches give way more damage than the gimmers, although the gimmers are a more versatile weapon. I agree that the arreat's is the best all around barb helm, but, (big but), you can only get one ias jewel inserted, where as with my IK helm, I get to put 2 in making it possible for me to use the venom grips with their resist, psd, and life leech. Infernostrides give me a little more elemental damage and (more important) fire resist, where as the gore riders with nice stats, do nothing for your resists. A big part of the package is a saracen's choice I wear with 23% resist all and the annihulus charm with 15% resist. Every single item I put on this barb is set to boost either damage or resist. I could have built it different for quicker kills but I max out on the demon arches at 5315 and 4424 on the gimmers with a holy freeze merc (sorry about the overguess on the damage, but I looked at it last night and realized I was over a bit, but I still kill easily because of the massive Ias I have.) I don't like the thundergods for this build. Razortail gives you dex, piercing, max damage. I still contend the crows caw is a much better armor for this build giving you open wounds, dex, ias, and hit recovery. Damage reduction isn't as important on this build as on others because you're not going to fight hand to hand anyway, and you had better get at least a point or two in fast run/walk to help get out of spots you'd rather not be in, although the demon and undead bonus does make that chains of honor awful tempting

[juhnny]

If you can afford some eth demon archs get them. I have a pair now and with my might merc I am doing 11k dmg. I was in a public cow game and a pally was there with his concentration aura(think it was this one) and I was doing 20k dmg with them. Gimmers and Lacerators are nice but have no range - I guess they make up for this with higher stack amounts.

[HateSpreader]

hmmm...i'm gettin a bit tired of my druid & zon, thinking of making a throw barb (came to that 'cos i kinda like doing the slightly odd char, that still works...hopefully)...i got a lacerator & a glimmershred...all IK bar armour (wish i had it, but i'm a bit poor), thundergos vigor, raven frost, soj, crafted barb ammy (+1 baba skill, +r/w, ll & res all i think...but low numbers...not really sure). this is wot i plan to use 'till i get more suitable items.
ya, so looking at it, really more interested in wot sorta base stats i should want by about lvl 80 or so, & rough skill placement...i don't usually go to much past 80, never bothered to hit 90...
thanx

oh, & wot sorta items should i try & get, taking into acount i'm poor & also want an item that does "cannot be frozen" (raven frost i got, so i wanna keep that on)

btw; any1 got a "cheap" glimmershread axe for trade...talk to me :)

[Absolutian]

I'm building my first throw barb... into my mid-30's, but I've played javadins since the beginning. So, as a couple people have said...These are not builds for the impatient. Moreso, if you're playing hc. From these posts, it seems that only one person has that in mind.

There is one strat guide for the throwbarb, on dii.net, that I found helpful.
One of the things it recommended was the use of Grimward for crowd control, and I've found it good for crowd control...just gotta make it more of a habit. Periodically, throw up a grimward, and shoot em in the back. (Take care: running is not always away from you). Especially, do this before movin on to the next screen. This will give you a safe place to fall back to and through, if the stuff hits the fan.

One benefit of GrimWard: I think, unlike Howl, there is no check vs the monster level. If they get in range, they run.

One thing I haven't seen explicitly discussed here is range and speed. Fairly well known, I think, is the range and speed difference between javs and axes/knives. 1.5 screens vs 1. Real important, if you ask me. That's basically how I design my weapon switch. Javs on one, axe/knives on another.

Javs fire and travel slower than knives/axes.

Question: I tested the difference between throwing knives and axes, back in 1.09. At least on my old machine, the rate of fire for knives was 25% greater than axes. Anyone else test this?

So as the old Confederate general said...what counts is "who gets there the firstest with the mostest". I try to be a quicker shot for those ranged attackers.

You should max TM before DT, as the DT only does ar. (if you put more than one in DT) (BTW, I know knives can have ITD; anyone seen axes or javs with it?)

I've tried using the Frenzy. 6 seconds of speedup hasn't worked real well for me....I'll keep trying. I think it's something to do after most of the mob is dead, and just before heading off to the next mob. This isn't a build for general melee.

However, with the frenzy, points into spear/axe mastery will help with javs and axes. I heard a rumor that sword mastery will help with dagger melee, but Far as I can tell, that rumor is wrong. Doesn't show on the char screen.

[HateSpreader]

oh, ya, one question that i've been interested in but never asked;
if u put a zod rune in a throwing item, does that make it unlimited stack....never tried this myself...for me, zod is WAY too expensive to use on a test.

oh, and as far as patience goes...once u get to, wot, 25?, u can lvl like a madman if you're happy to leach exp...that's how my druid got to 81 in a couple of weeks :p u just need to find items

ps; when i first started, my highest char (necro) got to lvl75...i was so proud...took me a few months at least, if memory serves (thanx to beer, it dun really serve too much).

pps; if it does make unlimited stack with zod, i need one...

<edit>

oh yah;

<quote>
So as the old Confederate general said...what counts is "who gets there the firstest with the mostest". I try to be a quicker shot for those ranged attackers.
</quote>

the confederates were from star trek right....were they goodies or baddies?
:p danged americans

[Red_Zone]

oh, ya, one question that i've been interested in but never asked;
if u put a zod rune in a throwing item, does that make it unlimited stack....never tried this myself...for me, zod is WAY too expensive to use on a test.

oh, and as far as patience goes...once u get to, wot, 25?, u can lvl like a madman if you're happy to leach exp...that's how my druid got to 81 in a couple of weeks :p u just need to find items

ps; when i first started, my highest char (necro) got to lvl75...i was so proud...took me a few months at least, if memory serves (thanx to beer, it dun really serve too much).

pps; if it does make unlimited stack with zod, i need one...

<edit>

oh yah;

<quote>
So as the old Confederate general said...what counts is "who gets there the firstest with the mostest". I try to be a quicker shot for those ranged attackers.
</quote>

the confederates were from star trek right....were they goodies or baddies?
:p danged americans
You can't socket throwing weapons. BWAH-Hahahahahaha! :D

[Pent]

i strongly advise you to not make a throw barb. i made one with the following gear:

lacerator, warshrike (both near perf)
2 x gimmers on switch for PI
naj's plate
arreat's
highlord's
verdungo's / razortail (for piercing)
dracul's (nerd perf)
ravenfrost+other ring
gore riders
annihilus

he SUCKS (sucked, stripping him of gear now). he dies very easily in hell even with max resists, shout, BO, etc. thanks to not having a shield. his melee damage is absolutely pathetic, it takes ages to kill things and you sometimes just have to give up against possessed, etc. even with a quick frenzy to increase attack speed, your damage will be laughable.

don't do it, they're worthless in late hell.

always try a build with the cubemod before you go far with it btw.
Someone is very naive, and it's not me for once :D

[WackenOpenAir]

i just build my perfect thrower in theory, he should be wearing:

2 warshrikes
highlords
ravenfrost
whisp projector
steelrend
wartraveler
verdungos
guillaimes face
chains of honor

this gives in total:

65 str
20 dex
50 vit

15-25 extra damage
60 ed
95% deadly strike
45% critical strike

20 cold absorb
20 light absorb
23% pdr

65-65-100-65 resist, add fire from charms for max fire and light. (the anya's and NR will make fire and light max in hell)

yes i took into consideration arreats, atma's, gore riders and more of your beloved items, but calculated it all and this i think should give the best damage output. Now i just need to get those items some day.......

base stats should be 140 str, 100 vit rest dex.

[Lim_Dul]

I'm building my first throw barb... into my mid-30's, but I've played javadins since the beginning. So, as a couple people have said...These are not builds for the impatient. Moreso, if you're playing hc. From these posts, it seems that only one person has that in mind.

There is one strat guide for the throwbarb, on dii.net, that I found helpful.
One of the things it recommended was the use of Grimward for crowd control, and I've found it good for crowd control...just gotta make it more of a habit. Periodically, throw up a grimward, and shoot em in the back. (Take care: running is not always away from you). Especially, do this before movin on to the next screen. This will give you a safe place to fall back to and through, if the stuff hits the fan.

One benefit of GrimWard: I think, unlike Howl, there is no check vs the monster level. If they get in range, they run.

One thing I haven't seen explicitly discussed here is range and speed. Fairly well known, I think, is the range and speed difference between javs and axes/knives. 1.5 screens vs 1. Real important, if you ask me. That's basically how I design my weapon switch. Javs on one, axe/knives on another.

Javs fire and travel slower than knives/axes.

Question: I tested the difference between throwing knives and axes, back in 1.09. At least on my old machine, the rate of fire for knives was 25% greater than axes. Anyone else test this?

So as the old Confederate general said...what counts is "who gets there the firstest with the mostest". I try to be a quicker shot for those ranged attackers.

You should max TM before DT, as the DT only does ar. (if you put more than one in DT) (BTW, I know knives can have ITD; anyone seen axes or javs with it?)

I've tried using the Frenzy. 6 seconds of speedup hasn't worked real well for me....I'll keep trying. I think it's something to do after most of the mob is dead, and just before heading off to the next mob. This isn't a build for general melee.

However, with the frenzy, points into spear/axe mastery will help with javs and axes. I heard a rumor that sword mastery will help with dagger melee, but Far as I can tell, that rumor is wrong. Doesn't show on the char screen.

Don't post Bull sh{t..

Thrown weapons all travel at the same speed, and the only thing that effects the firing rate is the delay of the weapon being thrown.

What were you testing with, a -20 balanced knife against a 10 throwing axe or something? Duh........

Next, who the hell maxes DT, or uses Frenzy? That's just stupid either way.

[memememe173]

i just build my perfect thrower in theory, he should be wearing:

2 warshrikes
highlords
ravenfrost
whisp projector
steelrend
wartraveler
verdungos
guillaimes face
chains of honor

this gives in total:

65 str
20 dex
50 vit

15-25 extra damage
60 ed
95% deadly strike
45% critical strike

20 cold absorb
20 light absorb
23% pdr

65-65-100-65 resist, add fire from charms for max fire and light. (the anya's and NR will make fire and light max in hell)

yes i took into consideration arreats, atma's, gore riders and more of your beloved items, but calculated it all and this i think should give the best damage output. Now i just need to get those items some day.......

base stats should be 140 str, 100 vit rest dex.
Crushing Blow is at 1/4 (i think) effectivness with ranged weapons so put on arreats, travs might be ok, atmas(% to ar)=highlords(skill=ar)

[WackenOpenAir]

Crushing Blow is at 1/4 (i think) effectivness with ranged weapons so put on arreats, travs might be ok, atmas(% to ar)=highlords(skill=ar)

hmm thanx, can anyone confirm that? (since you say "i think")

atmas i concidered for the amp damage (also lacerators) since however the thrower will be using howl and grimward, the packs will be split up and therefore i think the amp damage cast will be much less effective. and even if that would work well on groups, i think highlords is still better.

arreats i did not use because i do need the resists and skill levels have not so much value for this build. (the thrower has enough points to spare for getting the needed skills at desired levels and the damage comes mostly from synergy and thus wont be enhanced. i will rethink the helm, maybe more damage reduction, maybe more life+mana, maybe the deadly strike on guillaume's is enough to justify its use. ill think about that later.

furthermore, the whisp projector might seem strange to some people, but i included this because imo light absorb is a must have in hardcore with low vitality. thundergods is the other option, but i liked verdungos pdr too much.

WT are so effective on this guy because the damage from throwing weapons is much lower.

[memememe173]

the DS on Guillame's is not worth it as you have 20% from mastery and 50 on each weapon get rockstopper for bunch of reists + 10% PDR and i know that CB is reduced when using ranged weapons...I was just guessing a the % (but i know it is reduced enough so that wearing a helm just for CB is NOT justified)

[WackenOpenAir]

mastery gives critical strike. guillaimes gives deadly strike. if you have 80 deadly (as i would without it) and 20 critical, that does not add up to 100 or 95 or whatever, it will add up to 84. adding 15 more deadly will make it 95% deadly + 20 critical = 96% chance for double damage. so it does add 12% extra chance for double damage. as long as you dont have 95%, deadly strike is always usefull.

[memememe173]

mastery gives critical strike. guillaimes gives deadly strike. if you have 80 deadly (as i would without it) and 20 critical, that does not add up to 100 or 95 or whatever, it will add up to 84. adding 15 more deadly will make it 95% deadly + 20 critical = 96% chance for double damage. so it does add 12% extra chance for double damage. as long as you dont have 95%, deadly strike is always usefull.
yes but at a significantly reduced "rate" when you can make a huge differnece with other items

[boochie61]

I am starting a ladder throwbarb and was just wondering one thing ... boochie, how did you get massive IAS with max resists? I know it's probably easy with natural resistances and the anya quests, but can you list your equipment?
shadowshifter sorry its taken me so long to reply here is my build.
174 strength
269 dex
188 vitality
21 double throw (anyone who doesn't max this isn't getting the attack rating they need to be successful, but to each their own)
21 double swing.
22 throwing mastery
5 in iron skin
12 in natural resistance
5 in shout
22 in bo
4 in bc
damage 4261/3988 with demon arches
5174/5174 with gimmershreds
1142 def upgraded crow caw with 15ias jewel
106 def venom grips
99 def infernostrides
104 def razortail
IK helm with 15ias and 15ias/9ed jewels
12/18 saracans choice ammy
rare 4% mana leech/96 attack/5 to resist/19 life/10 stamina/8% cast level 5 chain lightning ring
rare 7% ll/14% chance to cast level 5 nova/damage reduce by 2/10 to mana ring
1/13/14/7 annihulus
84/13/31 gheeds
mastery gc w/ 26psd over 4 secs
30 fire resist in 4 other charms
51 cold resist in 6 other charms
46 lightning resist in 5 other charms
22 poison resist in 3 other charms

My final resist now are
85 fire
75 cold
71 lightning
77 poison
2866 def total before bo

final total after cries
1917 life
5566 def
5220/5220 damage with gimmers
4304/4022 with demon archess


Along with a holy freeze merc that does 1938 damage presently with 1887 (non bo number) life and 2167 def (non shout) I have a package that can kill any act, any quest and can hang and kill even in the hardest 8 person baal rooms.
The best part is that none of this stuff is hard to get, and nearly anyone can match the numbers I have if they put the time in to get the right gear and to learn to play this type of character. The throw is a different breed altogether, so just don't expect it to play like a regular barb.

[Shadowshifter]

cool, thanks boochie! I wasn't going to start a throwbarb until I got some good items, but if you can do so well with easy-to-get items, I figure I'll just start one and bum some stuff off my friend :D

[FitzLaughlyn]

So for gimmershread throwing axes:

Axe mastery does or not help when you swing it?

With that much damage it sounds like a good close combat weapon with frenzy.

[boochie61]

So for gimmershread throwing axes:

Axe mastery does or not help when you swing it?

With that much damage it sounds like a good close combat weapon with frenzy.
It definitely does, if you're going to hybrid and frenzy with them. They actually have really good one hand damage, but as for throwing nada.

[FitzLaughlyn]

It definitely does, if you're going to hybrid and frenzy with them. They actually have really good one hand damage, but as for throwing nada.

So for throwing damage they aren't that good? I've got a aways to go before I dedicate this guy for a double throw barb.

Thanks for the info on the axe mastery.

[boochie61]

So for throwing damage they aren't that good? I've got a aways to go before I dedicate this guy for a double throw barb.

Thanks for the info on the axe mastery.
Throw damage is outstanding. If you are so inclined to get a might merc, you will be somewhere between 8-10k easy. Plus the elementals are so crazy on them, you won't even need berserk at all. Even the hardest IP's fall in 4-6 axes.

[FitzLaughlyn]

Throw damage is outstanding. If you are so inclined to get a might merc, you will be somewhere between 8-10k easy. Plus the elementals are so crazy on them, you won't even need berserk at all. Even the hardest IP's fall in 4-6 axes.

Thanks for the info. The plan right now is to build up. Right now I'm working on being as self suficient as possible (exp leach sucks too much now). So I'm putting points into my prime skills as I get them. ie axe mastery, throwing mastery, base line skills. Once I get to NM act 2 I'll get a might merc. I might just do that on my dual lightsaber frenzy barb, though as often as I smacked I like the thorns.

[Absolutian]

Don't post Bull sh{t..

Thrown weapons all travel at the same speed, and the only thing that effects the firing rate is the delay of the weapon being thrown.

What were you testing with, a -20 balanced knife against a 10 throwing axe or something? Duh........

Next, who the hell maxes DT, or uses Frenzy? That's just stupid either way.

Hey, Dull I take it reading is not your strong suit, so let me help you out...

You should max TM before DT, as the DT only does ar. (if you put more than one in DT)

You see the word 'if'? I wasn't recommending it, but some folks who have played in Hell do. See the guide mentioned below.

I've tried using the Frenzy. 6 seconds of speedup hasn't worked real well for me....

I said it hasn't worked well, but more than a few knowledgable people have recommended it, which puts it somewhere above 'stupid'. Here's the guide...

Throwing Barbarian Handbook V1.0
Author: The NL/PM Version: 1.09

They have something to say about speeds....

"However, Javelins travel slower in the air compared to Axes/Knives. For the most part, their attack speed is also slower."

And later...
"* Axes and Knives : The higher stack size makes them effective in PvM play, but the shorter range is mostly restrictive in PvP. They are decent, however, since they travel much faster than javelins in the air. "

Here's a discussion on HC throw barbs. Frenzy is recommended by a couple posters...
http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=128300

Regarding the speed of knives vs axes,
I tested a -20 balanced knife against -10 balanced axe with 10 IAS. Point is: it is NOT 10% faster rate of fire...more like 20-25%.

[Araquiel]

I've got a lvl 84 Hardcore Throwbarb that solo'd all the way to Hell Ancients, (though he couldn't do them solo) and has solo killed the DClone twice. I'll probably reiterate a few points that other people have made, but I think people missed a few points.

1. Get yourself Lionheart. It is THE Armour for a thrower. Huge stats, huge life, resists and enhanced damage. No skills or defense? So what? If you're getting hit, you're doing something wrong, and you'll probably be trying to figure out what to sink points in by lvl 80, so your not too skill-lvl dependent.

2. Get yourself Laying of hands. IAS is good for a thrower, and you wouldn't believe how it lets you rip through bosses. Fire resist never hurts.

3. Things that go off on striking go off where the weapon hits, not where you are. This is really nice for AoE spells. Though it sucked damage wise, I still lmiss the effect from having gear that had a chance to cast Nova while throwing. Kinda felt like throwing handgrenades.

4. Glimmershreds and Lacerators are the toys you want. (Ok, maybe warshrikes, but I haven't used them yet) Elite Spears can be more damaging and go further, but the quantities they have will mean you'll burn a hole in your town portal tome for repairs. (for PvM, at least) I use 2 of each, but mix and match them, so each equip had one Lacerator and one Glimmer. That way, you get amp + flee + wounds + elemental damage, all in one. The prevent heal is sweet, too. Always equip your faster axe first, because the speed calcs for your throwing are dependent on when each weapon was equipped. Can make a difference of a few frames.

5. Crushing blow is so nerfed on missile weapons, it might not be worth it.
At 1/8th for monsters, and 1/16th vs. bosses, It probably is worth making a crush-thrower.

6. You get damage bonuses from both dex and strength. So pump dex. It becomes alot more useful (dmg, AR, def) then stregth alone. keep it as low as possible, and throw the rest to dex, or vitality. (playing Hardcore lends itself to making 3k HP throwers. YMMV)

Well, it'll at least be food for thought.

Araquiel

[Vorbiss]

Best belt for thrower in PvM is Razortail, hands down. :)

[memememe173]

Best belt for thrower in PvM is Razortail, hands down. :)
If you don't need the belt for life leech, yes

the Ghost Glaives are simply 2 slow
the Winged Harpoons are simply to rare (never seen in trade channel//forum)
the balrog spears have too small quantity

Gimmershed USE tHESE!!1!!1111
Lacerators still trying to find
Warshriekes either axe is better

[PoopyPants]

wow, I have to say I've never seen more people in the same thread all making complete asses of themselves because they know nothing.

[WackenOpenAir]

wow, I have to say I've never seen more people in the same thread all making complete asses of themselves because they know nothing.

i would like to say i have never seen....

unfortunately i see them all day. People who make statements like these without any backup or prove they know better themselves.

[boochie61]

i would like to say i have never seen....

unfortunately i see them all day. People who make statements like these without any backup or prove they know better themselves.
You're right Wacken. Poopy pants, if you think these people don't know anything, don't make a juvenile statement like these people don't know anything. If you have a better idea for a throw barb, put it down and let people judge it on its merit. I know my build works because I've built it, and I know it solos hell. The others in this string also have built different versions of the throw barb than I would. Does that mean their build is wrong and mine is right or visa versa. No! All well thought out builds work with the throw barb. Actually well thought out builds of any type work well. Just because their idea of the throw barb is different than yours, doesn't make yours the only one. The machine gun works. I've built them but just don't like them as well. You can build the safety net build with high grim ward and howl. They work as well but I just don't like to play the build. You can run and shoot, or do as I do, holy freeze merc and count on that I can kill them before they get to me. The point is that no one is right. They all work, if you build them right and understand the build. That's like saying there is only one way to build a sword barb.

[memememe173]

ya i have seen some wacky statments here but you could be a bit more constructive....

[sacmb8]

I've toyed with a throw-barb in 1.10s beta.

IMHO it is extremely difficult to play a pvm, solo, untwinked throwbarb build in hell.

It is awesome fun in normal and nightmare, but i really don't think this build has what it takes in hell, despite playing it "safe".

Certain areas are a b!itch: ancients for example. The only way I could get around this was to pre stack the ground with throwing items quickly before they disappeared. This was in NM and not even Hell. There is no way I think I could solo hell - especially untwinked.

[Mert1]

Isnt thrower dmg nerfed GREATLY? In 1.09 dual mastery bug = 4 times more dmg and pvp dmg was that listed in char screen. I used to have 27 lvl thrower pk barb - it was crazy. any 4x lvl pvmer was slain in a couple of hits. I had 8x lvl ears in my collection ^^. All that in classic btw where max dmg on spears is +15%. I think thrower was most overpowered char (at mid -levels)
Tried this barb in 1.10 - considerably weaker.

[Icebird]

I guess I'm reviving a thread, but I might have some useful information to add.

Double Throw has a different damage formula from every other skill in the game.

Normal damage formula: (Based weapon damage * on-weapon ED) * (bonus from stats + bonus from skills + bonus from off-weapon ED, auras etc)

Double Throw formula: (base weapon damage * on weapon ED) * (throwing mastery bonus + double swing synergy) * (off-weapon ED + bounuses from stats + Might aura from merc + off-weapon ED etc etc)

There is an extra multiplier in the formula, which means a Might merc will boost your damage more than for most other skills.

Some throwbarb advice I received from a source I trust highly:

- Most of the unqiue throwing weapons don't do enough damage. Magic or rare weapons can get much higher damage.

- Use a Might merc.

- Use Battle Cry to reduce the enemy defence (helping you hit) and keep your merc alive.

- Any throwbarb choosing not to use a Razortail by choice is crazy.

Javelins have longer range than knives or axes, so you can hit things off screen. You can cube Winged Harpoons into Cruels using the 3 chipped gem recipe. (A high end cruel winged harpoon has a maximum damage close to 300).

Chris

[memememe173]

thing is javs have such small stack sizes

[Vajar]

Here's my guidelines/equipment for a throw barb build:
110 Str
175 Vit
+Dex

Lvl 99
20 Mastery
20 Double Swing
20 Shout
20 BO
10 Double Throw
3 Natural Resist
1 Axe Mastery
1 Grim Ward
1 Berserk
1 Leap

Lvl 80
20 Mastery
20 Double Swing
15 Shout
15 BO
3 Natural Resist
1 Axe Mastery
1 Grim Ward
1 Berserk
1 Leap

4x Gimmershred

Arreats Face (40% ED)
Highlords
60IAS Armor (30% each resist / IAS jewels)
Laying of Hands / Knockback IAS Gloves
Raven Frost
AR/10ResAll/Mana leech
Razortail
Goreriders

6 10 max charms
6 resist all charms

This gives you great damage, 130% IAS (5 frames - 125%), and resists of 75/75/47/47 (and 20% cold absorb).

I put high points in shout and keep a might merc around - delerium bone visage, upgraded um'd shaftstop, ed/ias ethereal reaper's toll.

[boochie61]

I guess I'm reviving a thread, but I might have some useful information to add.

Double Throw has a different damage formula from every other skill in the game.

Normal damage formula: (Based weapon damage * on-weapon ED) * (bonus from stats + bonus from skills + bonus from off-weapon ED, auras etc)

Double Throw formula: (base weapon damage * on weapon ED) * (throwing mastery bonus + double swing synergy) * (off-weapon ED + bounuses from stats + Might aura from merc + off-weapon ED etc etc)

Some throwbarb advice I received from a source I trust highly:

- Most of the unqiue throwing weapons don't do enough damage. Magic or rare weapons can get much higher damage.

- Use a Might merc.

- Use Battle Cry to reduce the enemy defence (helping you hit) and keep your merc alive.

- Any throwbarb choosing not to use a Razortail by choice is crazy.

Javelins have longer range than knives or axes, so you can hit things off screen. You can cube Winged Harpoons into Cruels using the 3 chipped gem recipe. (A high end cruel winged harpoon has a maximum damage close to 300).

Chris
There is an extra multiplier in the formula, which means a Might merc will boost your damage more than for most other skills.
I'm assuming by most you are leaving out the gimmershreds since those have almost 200 throw damage by themselves and crazy elementals making them the most valuable to a throw barb. The lacerators, while lower damage have some cool stuff going on as well making up for the throw damage. I have a throw barb off ladder as well, he used cruel ghost glaives of quickness, cruel winged harpoon of evisceration, and cruel flying axes of swiftness, and I'm telling you, none of these weapons compare in pure damage and versatility to the gimmer. You're right about the razortail, unless you're building a pvp thrower, then there are definitely better choices, but while leveling a pvp better have a razortail available. I still gladly give up the damage of a might merc myself, with my holy freeze merc. He carries a cruel cryptic axe of swiftness, a crown of thieves, and a duriels and he does over 2500 damage and tanks all day (except in act 4 of course :( ) I've built the might merc throw barb build before and I just don't enjoy having to run and shoot (maybe if I had an enigma it would be different but I use and upraded crow caw) I know others do enjoy the 8-10 k possible with the might merc but I just don't like that build myself, but I do see the sexiness of the whole thing. Besides, in my clan, my two best friends are a hammerdin and zealot, so I'm making 13k with them anyway, so more than that with a might merc might seem obscene.

[wisedoor]

I think that double throw is affected by the same bug as double swing and frenzy, that makes ias account just in the first weapon.
If this is true, using dual same weapons = bad.
Lacerator + Gimmershred = good
Lacerator + Scalper upgraded = good