HC Throw Barb - input needed

[ZappaFan]

I'm going to make a (mostly) pure throw Barb. Would really appreciate any advice on it. My thought is to go with an Iron Barb Double Thrower, & a Defiance merc so that I wouldn't miss having a shield too much. Good idea? Crap idea? Did somebody say beer?

I've found two of those newfangled Gimmershred throw thingies. Those look prety darn cool. I also found one of those Demon something (Balrog?) spears. That one looks pretty tasty, too.

[Edit: this will be PvM ONLY]

[STINGER]

Have fun, but I think its a tuff build for Hell play but throwers are fun. I have one of those ETH Ghost Glaives, its too bad no replenishe and like 80 stack I just know it will break on me!

From my limited Thrower EXP I think i would go Holy Freeze to put everything in slowmoe mode, or just go might for extra damage and so Merc has high damage potential thus high leech potential, thus high livability potential. Defince mercs work but if your not kiling fast they wont either and dont tend to last long unless you really PDR them out with a big stick.

Just my thoughts

[doubleOObubble]

"I have one of those ETH Ghost Glaives, its too bad no replenishe and like 80 stack I just know it will break on me!"

Arreat summit states differently... Are you sure it does't replenish?

[STINGER]

Well......u know tht was a bad statement, it replenishes, but it was the 80 stack that scared me away from building to it. I recall back in 1,09 my thrower had some nice sticks and could still go thru 80 fast in situations. I am sure it has replenish my bad!

[Bearcub]

I agree with the merc advice. Defiance for a thrower has limited use, one does not really want to be going toe to toe with critters. Also grim ward is a throwers friend. Set it up and pick off the creatures, howl has the same use. Blessed aim merc also is nice for a thrower, Plus they live longer than most give credit in hell, might be because they hit more, tho that is me speculating.

[WingBlade]

ZF, those Gimmershreds are very nice pair, with a stack of 240.... u won't have to repair as quickly..

The Balrog Spears ( Demon Arch's) are very delicious as well.

I have a pair of those, 1 is ethereal :) Very nice replenish,, when I had my thrower, if I was running low.. I would switch to Frenzy until they replenish to a decent amount.

Go w/ the A2 HF Merc... freeze those cronies and just break them w/ your weps.


Enjoy

[Bearcub]

Has anyone tried a glimmershread on a fury druid. That would give insane elemental damage and be extreamly fast, One could use a shield and actually have resist in hell. The only downside i see is high dexterity, so a little less life, and not as high a max damage.

[lfd]

Well......u know tht was a bad statement, it replenishes, but it was the 80 stack that scared me away from building to it. I recall back in 1,09 my thrower had some nice sticks and could still go thru 80 fast in situations. I am sure it has replenish my bad!
Hmm, I was given to understand that replenish had been fixed in 1.10 so that it would work even when you got down to 0 quantity. Is this another "not fixed properly" issue where the weapon remains unusable because it's ethereal?

[slick4hire]

I agree that might is the best bet for a thrower. It also does some good to have frenzy as an alternate skill. Charge it up a few times and you are like a machine gun.

I played with one of these and I ended up frenzying far more often then throwing. The throwing just didn't seem to cut it. I put a few points into war cry for the stun effect and just used frenzy for primary skill, then double throw for situations like the chaos sanctuary.

One thing you will notice is that frenzy and double throw share double swing as an enhanced damage synergy which makes them compliment each other as well.

[STINGER]

I have not read anything to tell me that taking sticks with replenish to 0 will allow them to replenish so I am under the impression it is the same as 1.09 here

[Naheet]

Throw barbs are very viable in Hell. I've got an 88 thrower myself, using gimmershreds and a Cruel Winged Harpoon and Gargoyle's Bite on switch.

I use a defiance merc, just so he can tank for me better.

Physical immunes are not a problem with the gimmershreds. But Atma's Scarab REALLY helps alot. Especially for killing speed. My thrower does about 3k physical damage in each hand with the winged harpoons, combine that with ampilify damage, and the critical strike from throw mastery (Gore riders help alot!).

Skills are pretty straight forward
20 Double Swing
20 THrow Mastery
20 Battle Orders
I have about 10 in Double Throw for AR.
And the rest in things like Natural Resistance(more is needed here, because you are going wihtout a shield) and Prerequisites.

Stats should be:
Enough strength for your end equipment.
Enough dexterity for weapons (Winged HPoons require 145, I think)
Rest in Vita.

Howl and Taunt are VERY helpful skills as well. Taunt the archers/ranged attackers and just shoot'em down before they get to you :).

Thats all I can think of right now :).

[sohcan]

Haven't built a thrower in 1.10 myself but I know Mali had his thrower up to somewhere in the 6-7k damage range and I believe that was with a might merc and some really nice cruel winged harpoons (so similar to Naheet). With the proper weapons you can do some serious damage, and I agree with the frenzy option turn that thrower in a walking drive-by! ;) I can't recall whether you play on east or west Zappa, but if you play on east I can keep an eye out for some nice ones if you are interested seeing as I tend to shop a lot during my hell E/S/P runs.

[Estrella]

I can confirm out of experience that eth throwing weapons will replenish once they've reached zero.

[mali]

I can confirm out of experience that eth throwing weapons will replenish once they've reached zero.
As can I.

Zappa... I had a very nice thrower (died recently - PvM builds should not take on PvP builds)...
Go a might merc, don't worry about BO sticks have a pair of gimmershreds on switch.
Mine used a pair of ethereal Demon Arches... nasty.

[Squatdog]

I've got a lvl 75 Throwbarb I've been building up.

One thing I found that helps is using the Razortail belt for Piercing.

[Ity-Bity]

Stinger, you are quite wrong.
From Blizzard's own patch.txt:
A throwing item with the magic property Replenishes Quantity now replenishes if depleted to 0 quantity.

[doubleOObubble]

The Beta and the Delta of a thrower barb is: Hit power gloves. Knockback as automod and chance of sweet stat/leech/IAS mods... Knockback is great for that build. Try and get ones with IAS too, and you're set.

[ZappaFan]

This just occured to me as I was playing him yesterday. I used to craft a ton of KB gloves for my hybrid zon for 1.09 but hadn't done any of that yet for 1.10 since I don't even have a zon (yet). But this thrower is the perfect candidate for some good KB gloves. Right now he's using Sigons gloves/belt but as I was playing him yesterday I happened to think about that.

I've been home sick the past couple days and spent a lot of time playing this guy, and have him up into the mid 50's doing Nightmare Eldritch/Shenk/Pindle getting him leveled. He's using a nice rare flying axe that has 140's %ED, dual leech, IAS & some nice % damage to undead (~140%). Pretty nice rare. On the other hand he's using a Deathbit.

I decided to go with a Might merc for faster killing, and hopefully less frequent repairing. Seems to be working so far.

This is definitely a fun build. Didn't mind being home sick from work one bit! :D


The Beta and the Delta of a thrower barb is: Hit power gloves. Knockback as automod and chance of sweet stat/leech/IAS mods... Knockback is great for that build. Try and get ones with IAS too, and you're set.

[Malachi]

I had a HC thrower using two gimmershreds. All I can say is, even those dont do enough damage unless you max double swing as a synergy or get a might merc to boost damage (or both). I had max Mastery and only 1 in double throw since it only adds AR and I was going for a bezerker hybrid.

I see two options really:

Max BO, Double Swing, Mastery, 1 Double Throw with a defensive merc
or
Max BO, Mastery, Shout, 1 Double Throw with a might merc

Frankly I think option 2 is the better since Shout gives a good synergy to the 1 bezerk you most likely spend anyway. And I dislike spending loads in skills just for synergy purpose (although double swing is an impressive skill).

I deleted my char, he could not make it in Hell. And those unique ghost glaives, I tried em.. too slow to be effective. As you see I did not advise all skills, and I strongly recommend some serious War Cry on the side. You will need that stunning edge.

[RottweilExpress]

My thrower didn't have the arsenal you have ZF, but still was a force to reckon with. Why? Because of two things. He got past most dangers using a MIGHT merc. Without him my damage would not cut it. And then it was the little item called Laying of Hands, which gives you a 350% dam to demons. Without those gloves, I wouldn't even go past A1 HELL.

Oh well.

[Araquiel]

My thrower is currently soloing up through hell (at Meph right now) and is doing well. He doesn't kill as fast as anything possible, but fast enough that you dont get bored halfway through the fight. ;) Something thing that I've noticed (and since I have solo'd DClone twice with him since starting Hell, think is effective.)
is that Glimmers are good, but they are my secondaries. Dual Lacerators are carnage machines, that Amp curse, cause flee, prevent heal, etc. Using them to cast amp then switching to glimmers is even better, but more micromanaging then I like. Plus, they replenish, so burn em out, switch to glimmers and when they die, switch back to Lacer's again. Amp & Prevent heal are what allow this guy to kill DClone.

Y'know, now that I think about it, I think I'll mix and match the pairs, so that I get amp'ing on both, and the nastiness of glimmers as well.

[ZappaFan]

Used my lvl 86 Hammerdin and crafted some hit power gloves yesterday. On the third try I got a pair of Heavy Bracers that had 20% IAS & 15% mf, so those were definite keepers. The IAS is what I was most interested in getting along with the Knockback automod. The magic find was gravy (and tasty gravy at that). The were level 57, so I had to level up just a little bit before I could use 'em. Then I switched out Sigons gloves/belt for the knockback gloves I crafted and a razortail belt. That combo seems to be working great! Razortail only gives something like 33% pierce, but even that is pretty good judging by the number of axes I see flying through monsters. That's got to help a lot in packs. I also switched out deathbit for a scalper, and still keeping that rare flying axe, which is still doing more damage than the scalper.

Well I'm getting the hang of using Grim Ward which is extremely useful if used right. I've never ever used it with any of the many barbarians I've made before. I've actually never put a point in that part of the skill tree at all since my very first barb. He had several points in find item, and I tried it then for a while seemed like and only ever found a bunch of crap and got tired of horking stuff. Never went back to it. And since I've put some a point in it, I'm using my echo sticks to hork stuff with (11 total). Turning up some charms and rares, but no "keepers" yet.

This guy is really a fun build so far, and at least in NM, a pretty efficient killer.

[WackenOpenAir]

I must admid i have not yet had a high thrower, but im from the barb forums discussed about it a lot as i did research for i am planning to build one in HCL:

throw damage is calculated differently its a multiplication of 2 parts: str+dex*0.75 and skill + aura mods. since these multiply instead of add, it makes them both much more important.

This surely makes the might merc very good for the thrower (much more damage increase than for other barbs)

also are the dex and str very important. Since a thrower isn't supposed to go mellee anyway, it should not have that much vitality. Some people even seem to make em with base vitality, others 100 vitality, some share dex and vit evenly.

str can be pretty low, you wont need a heavy armor, you are not gonne mellee. dex has of course preference over str because it does the same for damage but also gives you AR.

all this together, make it a weak char indeed. You have to avoid contact with monsters. use howl and grimward for this. both dont need to be maxed, but not be lvl 1 either. just try and see.

frenzy seems to fit with it for the shared synergy, but frenzy is a mellee skill and even without shield. to use frenzy you need a durable barb. if you make a durable barb, your dthrow damage will be crap. Also the charging with frenzy for IAS is really not practical, you'll be wasting more time charging and swiching than you actually benefit.

also, increase speed is very good for a thrower since it will help you avoid contact.

Throw barbs are a build that requires skill, you cant try to make it an easy to play build with high life and armor. It is a fragile build, but it can do very high damage if you go all dex.

all together i would advise something like:

20 double swing
20 throw mastery
1 double throw
20 BO
10 grim ward
10 howl
5 increase speed

100 str
100 vit
rest dex.

might merc.

try getting some deadly strike stuff.

[ZappaFan]

I use my echo sticks on switch to make a grim ward. With only 1 point in it I get 10 from + skills stuff (IK helm and atm viper magi). At level 11 the grim ward works at a radius of over 8 yards. That provides plenty of breathing room for me so far. Later in hell I might want to invest a few more points in it (I can see needing all the room I can manage in Hell WS & Frozen River).

Eventually I'm going to go with a light Lionheart Armor. The extra stats and resist will be essential in Hell I think. Not sure exactly how the 20% ED will translate for throw damage, but I'll find out. Using an IK helm right now, but in the process of trying to trade for a good 'ol Arreats for use in Hell. My resists really suck right now for Hell. No way am I ready for that!

[STINGER]

Gots to be carefull lurking in the Barb forum for ideas on builds as most of them are SC all the way. The 100 Vita Thrower is going to die in Hc! if you garunteed this guy wouldnt run wihtout a party and would be leading the way some then maybe you have a shot but otherwise forget that 100 vita stuff. i would feel safer wiht a shieldless Zerker using Generals flails than a 100 vita thrower!

[WackenOpenAir]

I definately am gonna try it though.

all those other classes can survive with 1500 life, so why wouldnt my thrower survive with it?

[Ity-Bity]

Go ahead, it's your death.

[doubleOObubble]

"all those other classes can survive with 1500 life, so why wouldnt my thrower survive with it?"

Well, there is a difference. "All those classes" I assume are all but Shapeshifters:

Necromancers - ALOT of minions (often) and bone-shield, making for massive damage absorbation.
Sorceresses - ES and Telekenesis, say no more. Also ability to teleport out of trouble.
Paladins - Massive blockers maybe?
Amazones - Decoy/Valk for distraction. Slow missiles for rangers and very important: D/E/A...
Assassin - Master for extra distraction and fade/BoS for negating threats.

Now, the barb does have some treats in Nat. res and GW/Howl, but not taking advantage of the massive life a Barb can get would be unwise I think. Still, unwise doesn't nescessarily mean un-fun, so if you feel like playing a SC char in HC, then go have a blast! Report back with your adventures if you can!

Good luck!

[WackenOpenAir]

that will take a long time before i can report on that. first i will need to have the items i want to equip him with.

I am building other characters now who will gather equipment, i will make him only with some of the best possible stuff.

[Mn_Swe2]

I definately am gonna try it though.

all those other classes can survive with 1500 life, so why wouldnt my thrower survive with it?

Depends on your play style, almost anything can make it through NM if you just play it safe :)

For Hell it's the same, but your killing power needs to be increased quite a bit. But as long as you have killing power and play it safe, ie engaging just one or a few monsters at a time, I think you will be fine :)

Good luck with your low-vita build :)


/Magnus

[ZappaFan]

I just cracked level 63 this morning before coming to work, and I think I have vit at 180 (with 40-ish unused stat points) and holding for right now while I'm leveling in Nightmare. With BO his life is right around 2200 I believe. This is not going to be a high str build, seems like base str is only about 80 or something like that. He's going to eventually wear a Lionheart for sure (wire fleec or great haubrek), so I can still put some pretty good points in dex and have plenty in vita as well. I'll not venture into hell with less than 3500 life with BO I don't believe.

[xeyloderixed]

i am also trying to make a thrower, and not sure on the stats

it seems like damage isnt really the issue, as you can just wear items with xxx mods on them (cb, amp, etc). i plan on using dual lacerators, cats eye, arreats, raven, lionheart, tgods, gores, loh

if so, wouldnt it be advisable to just go enuf str for gear and base dex? rest vita? seems like 4.5k is achievable at high levels. and the ar problem you can solve by (double swing/throw? i forget which) as the build is light on skills

[Vilencia]

I tried a thrower a while ago and found my biggest problem was AR... I was using duel gimmers and ar was quite a big problem. would a blessed aim merc be a good choice instead of defiance?

[Naheet]

I tried a thrower a while ago and found my biggest problem was AR... I was using duel gimmers and ar was quite a big problem. would a blessed aim merc be a good choice instead of defiance?

I actually used a Blessed Aim merc from 75-82. IT worked well, until I decided I didnt need the AR anymore. Atma's helps, as well as some IK items (belt, helm, boots and gloves).

As a thrower, you wont need 3.5 K life in hell. WIth a good merc you shouldn't be getting hit all the often, and when you do, just howl with War cry sticks on switch to get out of it.
My throw barb soloes quite easily in Hell with 2.4K life, less with MF equipment. I dont have any life leech, except when I switch out the GImmers for Gargoyles' Bite.

But if you can attain 3.5k life wiht BO and still have the dex and str for your equipment, and can skill kill easily, then by all means go for it.

[doubleOObubble]

"would a blessed aim merc be a good choice instead of defiance?"

You got one response already about a blessed aim merc, but the "undisputed" alternative would be a Might merc, not a Defiance one :)

[WackenOpenAir]

"all those other classes can survive with 1500 life, so why wouldnt my thrower survive with it?"

Well, there is a difference. "All those classes" I assume are all but Shapeshifters:

Necromancers - ALOT of minions (often) and bone-shield, making for massive damage absorbation.
Sorceresses - ES and Telekenesis, say no more. Also ability to teleport out of trouble.
Paladins - Massive blockers maybe?
Amazones - Decoy/Valk for distraction. Slow missiles for rangers and very important: D/E/A...
Assassin - Master for extra distraction and fade/BoS for negating threats.

Now, the barb does have some treats in Nat. res and GW/Howl, but not taking advantage of the massive life a Barb can get would be unwise I think. Still, unwise doesn't nescessarily mean un-fun, so if you feel like playing a SC char in HC, then go have a blast! Report back with your adventures if you can!

Good luck!

He is starting te become something.

lvl 65 now, end nightmare. So yes, the hardest part is yet to come, but some things are needed before going hell.

his stats without items (with items) are now:
str: 95 (193)
dex: 210 (272)
vita: 100 (142)
eng: 10 (32)

current skills:
6 double swing
1 double throw
20 throw mastery
20 bo
8 grim ward
8 howl
1 natural resist
1 battle command

equipment:
Lionheart(hel lum fal) boneweave
vampire gaze
Ik gloves
IK belt
Wartravelers
dwarfstar
ravenfrost
saracens chance
The scalper
Deathbit

this all makes after cries and including lvl 51 might merc:
1159-2099 dmg1
731-1473 dmg2

5582 AR1
6505 AR2
3180 def
1392 life
252 mana

75-41-75-41 resist (nightmare)

a solution to the resists must be found before entering hell. He plays very well in NM though. At lvl 70, gimmers will double his damage. (still looking for warshrikes). Also before going to hell, his merc must be leveled to survive there. also must get some more str in order to have more item freedom (the str bonuses are needed to wear the armor)

[WackenOpenAir]

i am also trying to make a thrower, and not sure on the stats

it seems like damage isnt really the issue, as you can just wear items with xxx mods on them (cb, amp, etc). i plan on using dual lacerators, cats eye, arreats, raven, lionheart, tgods, gores, loh

if so, wouldnt it be advisable to just go enuf str for gear and base dex? rest vita? seems like 4.5k is achievable at high levels. and the ar problem you can solve by (double swing/throw? i forget which) as the build is light on skills

damage IS the issue. since str + dex make a separate multiplier. if you dont have the stats, your damage will suck bad. Also does the dex solve the AR issue for at least a good part.

[Eblocher]

Zappa I would consider warshrikes. The pierce is great and they are fast and a decent stack. I think it will make a difference in a pack.

For a thrower I always used Cow King Boots. I think it added more damage because of the dex. Don't know if it still applies in 1.10

[HelzCaretaker]

throwers should pump vita over dex for the most part, why might you ask? there is a lot of + dex stuff, life is vital on hc thinking that range is the answer to not getting hit, you seem to forget an important fact, ranged guys are now very dangerous, gloams in mass can really take apart hitpts fast. Basically for hell I would suggest using single throw and a mosers shield for questing/running and switch to double throw when no pesky elemental guys are around. Also a few resist all charms should boost your resists quite nicely. Now the thing comes down to dr, gaze right now is useful only for the leeching, try getting arreats or a good resist all helm since physical attackers are not a worry with ranged. Few classes actually do much dmg even with fanat/might that are ranged. Even those rogue archers are big time elemental dmg. So just try and get good resists, double is a better killer then single if you have the resists but don't underestimate survivability with a shield.

[WackenOpenAir]

throwers should pump vita over dex for the most part, why might you ask? there is a lot of + dex stuff, life is vital on hc thinking that range is the answer to not getting hit, you seem to forget an important fact, ranged guys are now very dangerous, gloams in mass can really take apart hitpts fast. Basically for hell I would suggest using single throw and a mosers shield for questing/running and switch to double throw when no pesky elemental guys are around. Also a few resist all charms should boost your resists quite nicely. Now the thing comes down to dr, gaze right now is useful only for the leeching, try getting arreats or a good resist all helm since physical attackers are not a worry with ranged. Few classes actually do much dmg even with fanat/might that are ranged. Even those rogue archers are big time elemental dmg. So just try and get good resists, double is a better killer then single if you have the resists but don't underestimate survivability with a shield.

i think you never played a thrower. If you make a thrower with single throw, you might just as well go throw potions. If you build a thrower like you describe, your damage will barely reach 1000.

as you say, it is all elemental damage, rather than physical. therefore, just leave out the shield, defence and whatever, just get absorb with your maxed resists.