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TheKbob
29-01-2004, 23:39
Hello all! Some of you may have seen my old version and will like the new improvements.

Also, Dark Knight, if you would take down the old one and sticky this guide, that would be great!

And now... for you reading pleasure...

ووووو +The Commando-Mancer+ ووووو
V2.0
This new version will include updated Gear, Strategy, and PvP, which I have found that the Commando-Mancer can be quite adept at.

There was a Time when the Necro was just a bothersome lacky for the other classes, a Curse B*tch to say the least. Now that 1.10 is upon us, the Psn Necro, Bone Necro, and the even lowly Summoner are brought into full power. The Necro grows weary, though, of spamming spells or just standing there watching his minions go to work. He is ready. He lays down the wand that has molded to his hand and unsheathes a mighty weapon to now lead by example and take charge of his army. He shall become the Commando-Mancer!

The Commando-Mancer is 3 builds rolled into one and I shall briefly explain the 3 seperate parts:

1)Summoner:
The Summoner is a basic build. Your main skills revolve around the summoning tree, where you would max Raise Skeleton, Skeleton Mastery, and possibly mage (Personal preferance comes in here).

2)MeleeNecro
This is a very sparcely used Necro variant, but some are known to take this path. This is where a Necromancer acquires Melee gear and shoots for direct physical damage, with support spells such as Bone Armor/Wall/Prison and curses. Golems are used in this build as a meatwall. Psn Dagger is most likely maxed, but not for the Psn Damage. This will be touched on later.

3)Auramancer
This is an Item build new to 1.10. This is when you stack as many items on any necro type that give auras. With a Mercenary and Items these auras are attainable: Fanatascism, Thorns, Holy Freeze, Might( Act 2 merc) and more. Most of the time, this is a variant of the Summoner build, because skeletons stacked deep with these auras are a mean force of reckoning.


The Commando-Mancer is a compilation of these and I will now set into on how this build functions.

Chapters
I. Skill point allocation
II. Stat point allocation
III. Gear
IV. Gameplay and tips
V. PvP Strategies
VI. Thanks to...

I. Skill Point Allocation

The Commando-Mancer uses his elite force of Himself and his subordinates, his skeletons, to mass the enemy and achieve victory. Here is the Skills you need to acquire and hone:

Summoning:
20 Skeleton Mastery
20 Raise Skeleton
20 Skeleton Mage *(1)
1 Revive *(2)
1 All Golelm Summons, Golem Mastery, and Summon Resist

Psn & Bone:
1 Teeth
1 Corpse Exlosion
1 Bone Armor *(3)
1 Bone Wall
5+ Psn Dagger *(4)

Curses:
1 Decrep, Life Tap, Confuse + Pre-reqs

*1: It’s a personal prefrence to max these for most people. True they are weak to start out, but later on they can be an asset. Phys Immune monsters should not be a problem, though, do to Amplify Dmg (and Possibly Decrep) break a monster Phys Immune.

*2: Revives aren't the best any more. Some say go for them, but one point and some + skills should give you some if they are ever needed to be called into battle. Bad = 3 Minutes of life and they don't "Auto-Tele" or appear next to you as skeletons will. In Hell, you can use these more to your benefit by bring back hard hitting monsters.

*3: Some may find that more Bone Armor may be required to join the ranks, I shall leave this to your decision. My Commando has only 1 point in this skill and is doing fine currently.

*4: Psn Dagger is a known bug that has not been fixed. It has been around for a long time, so it is not frowned upon and is now seen as just part of the game. When Psn dagger is being used as your main attack (In the square by your Health Sphere), you will not get the Psn Damage bonus from the skill, but you will get the AR (Attack Rating) bonus free of charge! No use of mana either. So basically, free AR.

This skill allocation can be completed as early as lvl 73, though including the use of all skill Qs. 73 is rather easy to get to and leaves some more attainable points to the casual player to tweak the build as necessary. You will have + Skills for this build, so your skills will get a boost.

II. Stat Points

Strength: Always enough for highest req.

There is a new way to lose your items, and not by body popping. There are reported incedents where people grab their bodies, but are unable to pick up all their items due to not having enough base str. Then while this body is still on the ground, they die again. If these bodies are not collected, then loss of items can occur if you leave a game because only 1 Body can go with you. Also, more str is more damage!


Dexterity: Enough for base for weap and 75% Block

To block or not to block, that is the question. Get max block for this build or at least 50%. More dex= more AR= means you can hit stuff. Your % to block going up is just a sweet, sweet bonus. Though, just get max block with your chosen shield. Do not pass this exact amount at your current lvl for it will be wasted points. Just watch evertime you lvl. If it drops 1%, then add 1-2 pnts to get it back to 75% and rest to Vit.

Vitality: Everything else.

Life is Life

Energy: None, nada, NOOOOOO!!! The only time where mana is a problem is when your first summoning your army and their are 2 solutions:
1) MANA LEECH
2) MANA POTS

Easy and quick.

III. Gear
I will offer from Cheap to the Best of the Beast... er best .


Weapons:

1)Beast Runeword weapon:
Great damage plus the king of Mods: Fanatascism! Helps you and your skeles. The repair bills for the dur dying quickly on runewords is kind of a downer, but just stock up some ort runes. 1 ort + Weap in Cube = Fixed! Use it till it breaks then clean it up and go on!
(Weapons of Preference: )
Caddy = Not the highest damage, but fast and has high Durablity (70). Very Rare, though.
Bezerker Axe = Best damage, but can't rival speed and 26 Dur. Pricey too.
Ettin Axe = Middle ground in Dmg and Speed, but 24 Dur. Easiest to find.
Warspike = Faster than Caddy with less damage. 26 Dur. Pricey as Zerker.

Even better is the ability to go Werebear, but this shall be noted more in Gameplay.
Beast is Highly suggested.

2)All other Runeword weapons. See this link:

2a) Passion
Good damage and speed. Has monster flee that is annoying, though. But, it does give you zeal and beserk, two great melee skills. Also, it has Heart of the Wolverine charges so this would be like a mini Beast.

2b) Crescent Moon
Damage, speed, Ignore Target Defense and the king of all on strike mods: Static.
Another good and cheap choide.

*Note* Doom Runeword is a bad choice. Holy Freeze = Shattered Corpses. I suggest if you want a doom, get polearm for your merc and don’t equip it until your army is at 100%

3)Baranar's Star
Cheap and good damage. Boost to ar is stellar and its got loads of Ias. Get this weapon if you can't get a runeword.

4)Fleshripper
This can be more for a Psn Necro hybrid of this. It has good damage, speed, helps you hit, has slow, and many more mods. This is truly one weapon with no bad mods.

*Special* On Switch, I highly suggest Call to Arms. One Handed of any kind will help you and your skeletons survive.

There are some 1.10 weaps that are worth mentioning, but I will leave that to you to search through Diabloii.net databases to find if there is something else you may want, but they are expensive so... a good Runeword or Baranar's are both fine choices.

Armor:

1)Enigma
Teleport, + skills, + Str, DR, + Life... and more! VERY GOOD ARMOR. Would be hard for me to choose whether to use Beast Weapon or this armor if I could only afford one. They both add a blend to this build. Try for one, if not...
*Note* Best Armor for PvP. More info on this is PvP Strategies.

2)Shaftstop
Tried and true. Um'ed would prob be a good choice for this old school hit.

*Note* Valor is a worthy mention, but it too is expensive, and I really don't like it. Also, Chains of the Honor or Bramble get an honorable mentiong, but if you can afford these, MAKE AN ENIGMA!

Helm:

1)Shako
Skills, life, mana, DR... just get one!

2)Gaze
Dr and duel leech. Some cold damage as well.


Honorable mention would be a Rare circlet with Run/Walk, ED, Life, Mana, + to Necro and more, but that can be expensive as well and Shako still kicks the crap out of it.

Shield:

1)There was a Tie here between Stormshield and Homun, but after testing, Homunculus comes out on top.

Stormshield requires too much dexterity for max block and Homun will add to you better than the mods of Storm. Now you may say that you wouldn’t have max Damage Reduc., but Max block with the res, skills, and such of homun will help more against the real enemy of a Commando: Spell Casters

2)Lidless wall
Not the greatest block, but throw and eld rune in it and that will help with block., but homunculus is about the same price, but this shield still has a use. Use this on switch with Call to Arms to help boost Battle Orders another Leve.

Gloves:

1)20% Ias/ Duel Leech/ Other mods gloves.
Good stuff right there. Crafted ones with crushing blow add for a nice tough.

2)Bloodfist
Cheap, easy to get uniques.

3)Laying of the hands
20% ias and loads of damage for Demons (I.E. end bosses). Should have a pair of these handy.

The new unique Ogre Gauntlets get an honorable mention because of their +ed, but expensive.

Boots:

1) War Travs
+ Dmg, Str and Vit... yeah good boots

2)Gore Riders
Deadly Stike and Crushing Blow... also nice boots.\

3)Marrowwalks.
These boots can give the infamous +33 synergy boost to your Bone Armor and the str mods can help you. Also, what summoner doesn’t like +2 Skele. Mast?

4)Crafted Blood boots
If you need more life leech, and maybe some res, then shoot for some of these. You can make 'em too!

5)Aldurs Advance
+Life and Fast Run/Walk

Belts:

1)Gloomstrap
Mana Leech, + Vit, more mana, and regenerate mana... The belt of choice for me!

2)String of ears
Life leech and Dr. Remember dr is capped at 50%, so don't go DR crazy!

Rings:

Slot 1:
Ravenfrost
A MUST!!! You Must have this ring. Cannot be frozen plus dex and AR. Just get one!!!

Slot 2:
1) My new #1 Choice: Wisp Projector
Use this to summon one of the three Druid Sages. It costs about 2-3K for Oak Sage charge and about 5-6K for Heart of the Wolverine charge. This ring has many uses.

2) Duel leech ring.
Not just dupes anymore! These can be found now, as well. Very nice choice.

3)Bul Kathos Wedding band
+1 skills, life leech, and + Life. A good choice

4)Manald
More mana leech and stuff...

5)Soj
Plus to skill and Mana...

Duel leech, Bul Kathos, or even a crafted blood ring are still the best. You need some life leech, and rings are a good place to get some.

Amulet:

1)Mara's
+ Skill, res and stats. If you need res, this is the ticket!

2)Highlords
+1 Skill, Deadly Strike, Ias, light res.

3)Cats Eye
Dex, Ias, and run/walk

4)Crescent Moon
Duel leech basically

Charms:

At least 4 Summoning charms, maybe more. Small res//life//damage are good to have. Just mix an match here where you need the most. Low dmg? Get max charms. Low life? +20 lifers are a nice touch. Res issues?
+X all small charms or just 10-11% of one type are nice.

Don’t forget that Lovely Annihilus!

Socketing:
40% Ed/15% Ias jewels are a nice touch for that added damage and speed, as well as Um runes for needed Res. in Hell. P Diamond in a shield such as Homun can be a good thing because it gives just a few points less of res all. Hel Rune in a Stormshield can reduce the amount of str. ( Hel SS I believe has 133 Str req.) 15% Ias Shaftstops are also in high supply, so that can be a great speed bonus too!

IV. Gameplay

Lvl 1-25

Get at least 5 points in Skele Mast. and then proceed on to max Raise Skele first. Try to get some of you support spells, but mainly curses for now. Other spells, such as CE and Golems will not take off really until + to Skills are acquired. Nothing like running around with a big 2 Handed sword too! Get to Baal by level 25 because...

Lvl 25-50

These levels can be gained quite quickly from normal Baal runs and this is when you get most of your gear. Raise Skele should be maxed at this point as well (lvl 50). You should be stomping in Norm and ready for Nm. (Note= Summoners, to me, seem a bit slow in beginning NM. Proceed on, the killing gets better as lvls are achieved)

Lvl 50-70

Power through Nm to get to Nm Baal runs! You should be getting the last touches of gear (Shako being a big one) and finishing off Skele Mastery and moving towards your next skill, be it Skele Mage or someother that you wish to branch off ( I still highly recommend Mage though!)

Lvl 70+

Enjoy the fruits of your labor. Slide some Mf gear on him such as a P topaz Shako, Skulders, Rhyme, or a nice +2 necro//MF ammy. You should be able to take Hell Mephy at a good lvl + Merc.
*Note* In Hell, it can be hard to get the skele summoning ball rolling, so it is suggested that you should make Skeles in Act 1 then proceed onto other acts if you are having difficulty.

Mercenary

Act 2 Might is the best for this build. You should either have fant or heart of the wolverine (or both) to help your skeletons hit. Here is the gear I would use on him for the situations of:

PvM
Gaze
Shaft or Bramble
Crescent Moon weapon

PvP
Ber Gaze
Bramble
Doom Polearm

Werebear

If your using a Beast Weapon (Highly Recommended), then you will get the chance to morph into a Werebear. You get +3 Werebear and +3 Lycanthropy from the weapon and + All skills (such as found on Shako, Sojs, Maras, ect.) boost the lvl of these skills. Going Werebear means you cannot Cast any spells, but when times are rough and you need to kick into high gear, the damage, AR, and Life boosts are awesome.

V. PvP Strategies

This did not start out as a PvP build, but I have found that he can do well. I’ll give some outline of how to duel a bit. This is not your Clan Honor build, so Enigma is HIGHLY Suggested.

Oh, and if you get life tapped by anything non-caster... It’s done for the most part.

Paladins:

Foh- Teleport and stay stacked in one spot. I would choose to Amp because most will teleport and if you do score a hit, you want it to hurt. Don’t let your skeles scatter or holy bolts will scatter and smash them.

Zealot- teleport next to em, but let your skeles spread a bit and decrepify them. Life tap can help when you get low on life. Go bear for the kill.

Charger: Make sure they don’t click you. Decrep here is needed and teleport on them so they can’t get charge lock. Go Bear and hold down shift and wait for them to run into them works some, but still bill careful. Re-cast bone armor as needed.

Zons:

Bow- Get in close, decrep, and they die. Nothing like Avoid, Dodge, and evade lock.

Javazon: These can hurt, ALOT!!! DO NOT STOP TELEPORTING. Decrep here and keep your necros stacked in one spot. The lightning fury will not be able to spread and they won’t be able to hurt you much.

*Note* Not many psn javas out there, but if you get poisoned, just stack on them and hope your skeles don’t kick it.
*2nd Note* lightning strike would spank you. Sorry, but hang it up here.

Sorcs:

Amp all sorcs.

Fire- DO NOT TELEPORT. If you stack in one spot the radius from fireball will toast ALL of your skele. Use them as meatwalls, go bear and try to work in some hits.

Cold: NO GO.... glacial spike can actually freeze your skeletons solid which is a bummer. Also, Blizzard rips. A Frozen Orber can be beaten, but its hard.

Light: Not many out there, but chain lightning will shred you. Jump them before they Jump you.

Assassins:

Whirlwind: Never met one... When I do, I’ll let you guys know.

Trapper: Ugh... I Hate these things. Don’t teleport. Go bear and mob them with your skeletons. They can’t mind blast all 28-30 of yah. Amp or decrep... hard choice.

Kicker: Easy Pickings. They come to you and you swat em. Decrep them

Barbarian:

Whirlwind: Iron maiden. Yes its cheap... but you have no way of combating these giants. Most will use Dracul’s Grasp and life tap = you lose for the most part.

Iron barbs: Decrep them and stack em deep. Go Bear and its a battle of the bulge here.

Warcry: Stun you skeles.... GAH! Go bear and smack them.

Thrower: They don’t stand a chance.

Druid:

Any Werewolf or Bear minus a rabies build will get stomped . Rabies will chew your skeles so just get in there and hit em before you die.

Elementals: Wind = Shred and Fire = Pounded. Sorry guys. I usually only beat Elementalists on more luck then strategy.

Necromancers

Bone: You will own these. For some reason, though, the Bone spears won’t hit you if you are all stack on one spot. Its great.

Poison: Same with rabies druids, Just get in there and hit them while your skeletons last.

Summoners: Best fights. Just have fun. If you meet another Commando, though, pray it isn’t me! MWAHAHAHAHA!

VI. Shout outs!

Thanks to Beatboxer for originally giving me this idea that I flowed with.

Thanks to UltimaFury for reposting my guide so I could update it.

Thanks to MadMantis for support and great ideas.

Thanks to Diabloii.net for helping me many times with items and more.

Thanks to the gang at RPG Forums #18 (the Necro Forum!) They helped me get back on track, and now I’m offering my two cents worth to help others!

Asheron
29-01-2004, 23:53
neat guide,I really have to try this somewhen. :D

CyberHawk
01-02-2004, 19:40
Ya this seem interesting, I mean I was a huge, huge meleemancer back in1.9. But now he doesnt stand a chance in hell. So maybe this build will take up for it. Tho alot of the items have changed. At least I still got my UM'd Homo, and ias/shaft, and ias/gaze from my current one.
I do love the idea of all the auras. Tho selling that wisp I found prob wasnt a good idea now. Nor was selling the cresentmoon yesterday..hmm ahh well, at least I got a direction for a new build.:)

I actually remember this build mentioned in the tail-end of 1.9, tho didnt seem to many were interested, but now I see its a sticky...alllright! Goodjob.
I used to be in this forums 90% of the time, but ever since 1.10 came, necro becasme the front seat instead of the underdog that I use to like. So I went towards barbs, who everyone said went wimpy, (which has been proved wrong now.:))...but this build is different, I havent seen it yet, which is why I''m so interested. But also, is the closest thing to a survivable meleemancer left.:)
Thx.

Mad Mantis
01-02-2004, 21:01
But also, is the closest thing to a survivable meleemancer left.

Now this intrigues me. In your post you express a desire to play the underdog. The Meleemancer according to you is not survivable, then why not try and make a good Meleemancer in 1.10? Personally I am working hard on it already. I figure if a naked Sorc can make it past the Countess and clear the Tamoe highland, surely a Meleemancer can kill Hell Baal?

Blood_And_Iron
02-02-2004, 00:42
*4: Psn Dagger is a known bug that has not been fixed. It has been around for a long time, so it is not frowned upon and is now seen as just part of the game. When Psn dagger is being used as your main attack (In the square by your Health Sphere), you will not get the Psn Damage bonus from the skill, but you will get the AR (Attack Rating) bonus free of charge! No use of mana either. So basically, free AR.

What are you talking about, "will not get the Psn Damage bonus." Poison Dagger works just fine. Explain please.

TheKbob
02-02-2004, 02:02
I didn't add that this is for any weapon that is melee (I'm not sure for bows, javelins, and other throwing items) that are not daggers.

If you use a dagger, then yes, you will get the Psn dmg and the +AR% bonus, but, if you use the attack with say a club, sword, axe, or any other type of melee weapon, you will only get the +AR% bonus.

I'm sorry if this was unclear.

~Kbob

CyberHawk
02-02-2004, 02:21
Now this intrigues me. In your post you express a desire to play the underdog. The Meleemancer according to you is not survivable, then why not try and make a good Meleemancer in 1.10? Personally I am working hard on it already. I figure if a naked Sorc can make it past the Countess and clear the Tamoe highland, surely a Meleemancer can kill Hell Baal?


I say that becasuse my 1.9 meleemancer was top notch, no doubt. When people think that you are hacked, and theres noway to tell them otherwise, becasue you can solo hell diablo np, and take the ancients with 2-3 other people in the game..thats the reason I say "survivable". Becasue I've tried him as of the past 2-3 days...and it aint happening anymore. I mean nowhere close. I'm lucky to even get to hell baal anymore.

And this build kbob has brought in, is the closest thing so far to a meleemancer, to what I use now. Thats why I like it. No I haven't came around to trying to "make" a new build for a meleemancer, I was working on builds others say dont cut anymore. Zerk barbs, Fire druids, etc. And have alrdy proved there strengths to many alrdy...esp a duelin' fire druid, man pk'ers hate him.:)

You musta picked thru the words wrongly, or I placed them wrong to get that impression that a meleemancer will never work....I'm the kind of person to prove the build, when others will take leave of it.

I've done it in 1.9, and I plan on it in 1.10...maybe even with the build you are in the making of......speaking of which, I am greatly interested in your ideas for a meleemancer, plz post what your thoughts are so far.

TheKbob
02-02-2004, 03:10
MadMantis is currently working on a guide and prob a bit disgruntled in the fact that he is near completion, but needs my tweaker part of the guide. I don't really have time to make a whole new necro based on his specifications, but running with my Commando has given me ideas on wide varietes of possible gear. His is an untwinked guide, but he wants to please the mass society, so that's where I would come in.

I just wish I could see what he has so far (*hint* *hint* MM).

Mad is very fond his Meleemancers. He prob. misunderstood you.

~Kbob

CyberHawk
02-02-2004, 04:02
Well maybe he could do a Untwinked/Twinked in same guide...like

If poor, look for these/this=

If able, try to use these/this=

That should please the masses?

I think alot of the gear you mentioned alrdy will be the majority used. Esp the aura ideas..I still love that.


edit. What kind of AR are we talking about, on my 1.9 Necro I had like only 1600-2k, how good does that posindagger skill do? As in how about an average AR would be like?

TheKbob
02-02-2004, 04:15
That is exaclty what the guide will be:

Untwinked = No items else where... poorest you can be.

Twinked = any where from having a few rares to having 50 runes on other chars that you can use to make your new char.

He has done the guide and the untwinked part. I will do the Twinked part and most of the gear will be more Commando Style, but with some changes. Like, say for a pure melee mancer, I would rely more on a dual leech ring then Wisp Projector because a spirit would die FAR to fast without your skeles.

~Kbob

Mad Mantis
02-02-2004, 12:16
IYou musta picked thru the words wrongly, or I placed them wrong to get that impression that a meleemancer will never work

Your post did seem to indicate that it was impossible to make a succesfull Meleemancer. My 1.09 Meleemancer failed horribly in 1.10 but this new one is doing good. I am almost near Hell and the completion of my guide. When I finished Hell I'll post the guide. If only I had more time.


@Kbob, what do you need for the twinking in terms of the guide? It will still take me some time to finish Hell, so there is no real rush.

Beatboxer
03-02-2004, 13:56
The kbob and Mad Mantis,

On the writing off a potential twinked section of a builde guide I would reccomend mentioning gear to help overcome the meleemancers close quarters fighting weaknesses and accentuating his strengths.

For instance, many that play know that necros have a pretty bad fast hit recovery rate so you'd want to outline the numbers and reccomend a short list of potential gear to help out in acheiving the breakpoints.

It would also be nice to mention how a necro is naturally faster with an axe, than he is with a sword.


I'm seeing twinking, now, just as as it sounds basically. Like twinking an engine, for performance, the specs need considering to identify just exactly how one could improve said engines performance with what mechanics.

You guys are probly aware of these things but lists are good.

My top Defensive, gear focused, concerns from my info and play:

Obvious
-Resists
-Block
-Some damage resist, if possible*
-High life*
-Efective meatsheild/s

Subtle
-Fhr(fast hit recovery)*
-Fast block rate
-cast rate (applicable to bone armor)
-fast run walk
-elemental absorb if possible

The three astericked topics, I see as particularly important for a sturdy necro.

My top Offensive choice concerns:

Obvious
-Attack rating
-Damage
-Attack Speed

Subtle
-Damage mods such as crushing blow, open wounds(ver good 1.10 mod), and deadly strike
-Knockback
-Cold damage for a little slow/chill
-Sows target by a percent
-Cast rate(in terms of curse casting)

All the breakpoints concerning all of the above issues should be known and listed to best twik a good mellee necro's gear, most practically.

My list might help ya focus you guys's twink list a bit, if not at least I entertained myself...I like making lists and explaining things to myself. :)

BTW Thekbob kickin' revision.:cool:

Mad Mantis
03-02-2004, 21:21
Thanks Beat. I was having trouble making a list. I would start with what mods I would like and then end up with almost all mods that exist. This helped to put things in perspective for me.

Khrys
07-02-2004, 02:16
Will my HoW disappear if I switch weapons after it's been summoned?

CyberHawk
07-02-2004, 02:17
Just wanted to ask again, with posin dagger skill used, (and NOT useing a dagger) what kinda of AR are we talking about here?
In 1.9 my necro, not using dagger skill, reached like 1300-2k AR, what are some numbers that 1.10 meleers reached, using the skill?

Mad Mantis
07-02-2004, 02:24
Using two Angelic Halo's and the Angelic Wing I reached 10K.

Beatboxer
07-02-2004, 03:06
Well Cyberhawk, slvl 25 Dagger gives 510% Ar bonus...I think that's one of the highest of all skills in the game (dont quote me on that:) )

With out focusing on Ar too much I get in the 9-10k range too. The Ar wont display in the char screen but the % chance to hit will and the percentage stays consistent with or without a dagger weapon being used.:)

CyberHawk
07-02-2004, 04:03
sweet numbers on the AR you 2. But how can I figure my AR when I cant see it in the AR box. Do you figure it by %x weapon, while not using the dagger skill. Or is their another rocket scientist math problem I can confuse myself with.

Also, I read somewhere in here about how axes+necro seem to swing faster? If so, I thought about razors edge, maybe socket it with more ias than it alrdy has. Think it will do?

Beatboxer
07-02-2004, 04:17
No prob Hawk.:) Unfortuneately I don't know the percentage to hit formula but soon I will.

In this situation to figure out the exact percentage you'd need to use the formula. But, basically, you don't really even need to know. The hover tells you your chance to hit and the actual numbers won't vary too much using non-dagger weapons from what I know. Even Attack rating bonuses on weapons should add up to add to percentage to hit.

Razor's edge edge huh...I need to check that out I forgot it's bonuses but ya it probrably should work. I made a Beast Champion Axe on single play forever ago and I can't imagine a more powerful necro melee weapon. (not neccesarily completely safe but ya..:) )

Mad Mantis
07-02-2004, 16:11
Chance to hit = AR ÷ (AR + DR) × 2 × clvl ÷ ( clvl + mlvl) × 100

AR = your attack rating
DR = monster defense rating. It's about 2000 to 2500 in hell and with -75% it will be 500 to 625.
clvl = your level
mlvl = the monster level (levels in hell range from 75 to 90+)

Axes seem to be better on a Necro. It also looks pretty. Personally I use either a Scythe or an Axe. Not only for the speed, but also the looks.

CyberHawk
07-02-2004, 17:46
well besides going for which diff. and which monster(s) I may run into. Couldn't I use this formula. As more of a basic, "this is my AR kinda deal".

As of my current lvl, I have 843 AR, with a lvl 4 Posin Dagger, which gives me .90% to AR.
So 843 x .90% =758.70, now wouldnt I had that to my total AR, which would be;
843+758=1601, so wouldnt 1601 be the AR I would have in my usual AR box?

The formula above throws me off, cause I could never find my exact AR, becasue I could be in 3 different difficulties, facing all differnt lvl of monsters. I would just like to be able to tell someone when they ask, "howmuch AR you got"...casue of now I'm still like..."I dont know!"..:)

ok I tried the formula above, using all the lower numbers in it, like 75 for monsters lvl, and 500 for their def. I came up with 1100 (rounding down). So this does prob sound more to real, but I dont know, maybe one of you try it?

lvl 48
Current AR is 843

Mad Mantis
07-02-2004, 21:01
This formula can be used to either figure out what your AR is based on the chance to hit, or to find out what your chance to hit is based on AR.
As you can see the formula is dependend on the monster you fight. But I will give you some numbers.

For the monster I have chosen the Oblivion Knight. Nobody likes these.

Normal:
DR = 192
Mlvl = 30

Chance to hit = 843 ÷ (843 + 192) × 2 × 48 ÷ ( 48 + 30) × 100 = 100.25%

Nightmare:
DR = 773
Mlvl = 58

Chance to hit = 843 ÷ (843 + 773) × 2 × 48 ÷ ( 48 + 58) × 100 = 47.24%

Hell:
DR = 1613
Mlvl = 85

Chance to hit = 843 ÷ (843 + 1613) × 2 × 48 ÷ ( 48 + 85) × 100 = 24.78%

gods_pawn
21-02-2004, 09:32
is this build viable? i mean sure it looks good on paper, but do you tend to fall backseat to your skeletons and kind of hang out, becoming a glorified summoner? i want to build a fun off build that can kill anywhere in hell, or just about, who isn't constantly fleeing from battles. would this build be it?

thanks.

Beatboxer
21-02-2004, 11:12
If you got the gear, gods_pawn, then yes. If you have sub-standard stuff...no.

gods_pawn
21-02-2004, 13:54
yeah i see - i have most of it, just a few of the runes are going to be tricky to find.....

second question - is maxing the skeletal mages worth it? from my experience, watching their attacks, those guys do only slivers of damage. would raising say, bone prison or wall be a better idea (for more bone armor and crowd control), or CE for bigger explosion radius? or something else?

Beatboxer
21-02-2004, 14:02
Pumping c.e. or armour synergies is a lil' more practical but a lil' less "cool". (kinda) Mages add to the varability of your attack. Also, while you melee, they will back you up with their 'modest' damage. They sheil you from hits too.

I'd play a commando, on b.net, in a second if I had the stuffs to trade for the items/runes. I've yet to build a serious mfing character yet....

O well. :drink: I'm sure you'll have fun. Do you yet have a beast weapon gods?

gods_pawn
22-02-2004, 12:09
no, not yet sadly. i am still attempting to get a ber rune and a 5 socket cadaceus (not the easiest things to find, i might add :uhhuh: )

then i'll need to get another ber (somehow *sigh*) and then i can make chains of honor in my 4 socket superior wyrmhide i've been saving for MONTHS (i KNEW i would need it!!)

and i'm not even THINKING about making an enigma at the moment (another ber! and jah?!) these runes don't fall into my lap, and my fire mf sorc is very limited in her talents.

i've kind of gotten bored with the typical characters, and am seeking ONE cool and crazy off build to devote my time into, and make him the strongest around. this commando necro is looking pretty darned cool to me, i'm just rounding up ALL my gear, and deciding if i can afford him, at the sacrifice of most my sorc's "elite" mfing gear.

ah well, wish me luck. thanks guys.

TheKbob
22-02-2004, 15:34
Ber sucks to get whether it be ladder or reg. I just recently started ladder with my Meteorber and have gotten some nice items, though, some nice donations from friends have helped. I suggest hell mephy for a fire sorc. Teleport along the outer walls of the durance till 3, then teleport down there and go to where mephy is. Throw some fireballs or something to get him pissed and then determining where that one unique council dude is, either go left or right of the portal. You can get a said distance away where mephy no longer throw attacks and is stuck and you can pummel him with Meteors. That is what I do.

Chains is good, but if you're getting the runes for it, keep saving for enigma. Beast and enigma are what really make this build special (even more so in PvP), so grit dem teeth and trudge on.

~Kbob

gods_pawn
23-02-2004, 05:04
heh meph is NOT a problem for my sorc...as i posted in the sorc forum MY approach to meph killing, i just got max resists and max block, lower resist meph with a charged dagger on switch, and tank him - 2-3 direct meteor hits drops him in about 5 seconds.

enigma is better choice, ok. jah and ber - yeah i'm ladder only, and can't stand non-ladder folks. plus the challenge and better items is cake too.

when you tele, all the skellies stack on top of you, correct? and a caddy - best choice for this build?

TheKbob
23-02-2004, 15:43
It's just like when you use your sorc and teleport with a merc. He comes right next to you. All your skeletos + golem + merc will stack where ever you want them. That is why I couldn't choose to say either shoot for enigma or shoot for Beast. It's a tie. Beast also has cool factor, but Enigma is more practical.

My Fire sorc is weak. I do the hide across that little blood pool trick and chuck about 15 or so meteors till he is dead. I need to buy some lower res wands, that would help, but with my MF gear on, I only get 6K-6.4K meteor, but she isn't pure fire either, soooo.

Good luck and such
~Kbob

~Kazama Fury~
28-02-2004, 17:02
awesome guide kbob, i am glad you were able to retrieve it.

Har-Megiddo
01-03-2004, 05:56
Supposing you were rich enough to get any gear possible for this guy, what would you get to make him *perfect* for PvM and PvP (and what difference in gear would you make).

It seems Enigma and Beast are mandatories and so is Wisp for the How. With max skellies, revives, and mages, a might merc, teleporting right into packed areas could make that single monster (built of the minions) quite impressive.

Let me know what you think is the best (cost not an issue) item set up for the commandomancer.

Har-Megiddo
01-03-2004, 07:04
After putting off studying a bit more (test @ 1 pm):

FYI: 35% IAS needed for breakpoint of 8, this gets you to 30%, so when you pick items, be careful.

Weapon: Beast Zerker (axes do more dmg/or are faster for Necro as far as I know)
Shield: Homo w/ Eld (this is to maximize blocking and save for vit).
Weapon Switch: CTA/Lidless
Armour: Dusk Enigma (more tradable and fairly low str)
Amulet: Perfect Mara's
Helm: Um'd Crest
Belt: Nos Coil (for life leech, 10% IAS, str, and slow)
Ring1: Wisp (for How)
Ring2: Ravenfrost
Boots: +2 SM Marrowwalks
Gloves: Lavagouts or Laying of Hands (20% IAS, Gouts better for the enchant, laying better for the demon dmg, both have fire res).

If I max Poison Dagger, Skeleton Mastery, Raise Skeleton, and Skeleton Magi, and then put a point into amp, terror, weaken, decrep, bone armour, clay golem, golem mastery, summon mastery, iron golem, blood golem, and revive, that takes 91 skills. That would take 92-12 (skill quests)=80+1 (you start off at lvl 1)=81 when you are finished with skills, leaving the next 82-99 to be put into Revives to make your army more powerful than they are.

Highest str. req is 138 for the zerker. Enigma gives 48 str at lvl 65, which drops the req. to 90, and Nos Coil lets me drop it to 75.

I could go with:

Str: 75
Dex: Enough for max block using Marrows, Raven, Mara's, and Crest (which boost dex)
Vit: Rest
Energy: Base

Using 6 Summoning Charms (I like 2 columns free to pick up the biggest item possible and then 2 columns to hold the town portal book + cube so I can continue picking up items for awhile without problems), Enigma (+2), Crest (+2), Homo (+2), and Mara's (+2), I get +14 skills, which turns to +15 with Battle Commands. I could boost my skills further by switching the rings for sojs and belt for arach, but that costs a lot of dex, attack rating, cannot be frozen mod, the How (unthinkable to drop that), the ias, slow, and str, so I think those +3 can be easily understood to be left. The boots add +2 to skeleton mastery and a bit to my bone armour until/if the bug is fixed.

Merc:

Obviously Might Merc
Helm: .08 Gaze w/ 40/15
Armour: Bramble
Weapon: BoTD Ghost Spear

This ends up with:

Lvl 35 RS, Lvl 37 SM, Lvl 29 PD, 35 SM, 16 CG, 16 Revive with Fanat aura, Thorns Aura, Might Aura.

Cost: (don't blame me for telling truth, im actually helping some of you guys)

Most people ignore this and act as if the 290 currency doesn't exist, but I'm going to price this as this is actually important if you guys want to make your guy and have to trade beyond the Dii.net trade forums.

Beast: 5 socket Zerker can be found easily, but if you want to be lazy: 1 290. Ber:3-4, Um:1-2, Mal: 2-3 (I'd shoot for 2), Tir and Lum are cheap and findable. Total: lowend:7, highend:10
Enigma: 3-4 for Jah, 3-4 for Ber, Ith is easy. Total: 6-8
CTA: Mal: 2-3, Ist: 3, Ohm: 3-4 (I'd shoot for 3) Total: 8-10
BoTD for Merc: Ghost Spear is findable, but you can get for one. Vex: 5, Zod:3, rest are cheap and findable. Total: 9
Bramble: Ohm: 3-4, Sur: 3-4 (unsure) Total: 6-8
08 Gaze w/ 40/15: 1
Wisp: 1
Um'd Crest: 1 (but frequently you'll see going for 2)
Perfect Mara's: 2
Marrows: 1
Rest you should be able to find pretty easily and if you have the 290s to trade, the rest should be somewhere on your mules.

Total cost: 42-51. Expect it to cost you 40 if you're a good trade, 45 if you trade sometime, and 51 if you are desperate (and if you're not a good trader, you probably ebayed for the 290s in the first place, so ebay for the other stuff LOL).

cher
08-03-2004, 10:34
Hi, according to the guides as well as the one posted above this message, both have quoted that either the caddy or zerk axe is faster for the necro. I've used a WSM calculator found at diablo2.de to calculate 40% IAS for the Caddy, the Zerk Axe as well as the 'fastest' War Spike.

Information gathered: All 3 weapons produced 11fps attacks under the influence of Lvl 9 Fanaticism, (on top of the 40% to match the stats of Beast Runeword).

Conclusion: Zerk Axe wins among the 3 for damage. Caddy is as The Kbob has said, more trade-friendly, as well as having very low str reqs. But I like the War Spike most because of the cool looks.
[Addin] The WSM calculator limits all 3 weapons to 10fps attacks only. Apparently the Necro can't do 8fps. Just re-read Har's guide and he quoted 35% to break 8fps bp. Anyone can clarify?

Cheers. :drink:

Beatboxer
08-03-2004, 10:54
Good post and points Cher (holy crap man I keep thinking of Cher in that video on the battleship*shudders slightly* )

When I used the weapon speed calculator on d2data, or whatever that nice German is called, it gave me a max weapon speed of 10fps also. I calced for a Fleshripper that time, but I just assumed a necro might be limited to that slow of an attack.

I did not include fanata in that calculation though so I don't know if that allows the necro to attack faster...maybe it does I'd have to go look.

Anyway, ya, I made a Zerk Beast on Single Player. :drink: The caddy also adds the 50% damage to undead, though, so if the speed ends up the same, and you can find one a caddy wins overall.

I wish Beast could be made in other stuff too. :yawn: :drink:

cher
08-03-2004, 11:36
Thanks BeatBoxer for the compliments. I've been in the shadows reading faqs and posts from ya'll (mad mantis, DK etc) for a long time. Decided to post this because I'm 'hoping' to build one in Asia1.

Almost impossible to trade for runes and such and currently have only 1 decent summoner mf-ing in pits hoping for runes and uber-1337s. Wish me luck!

PS: Cher happens to be my surname and in no way pronounced like that popstar's is. :lol:

Mad Mantis
08-03-2004, 12:27
Wish me luck!

Good luck cher, and welcome to The Darkness. Grab a brew :drink: and feel free to raise some corpses.

The Necro just is slow for a melee character. I must say that it was something to get used to. I had made a 4-frame dr00d before. It is very irritating to go from 4 to 10 frames.

cher
08-03-2004, 17:11
Wrote up an excel formula to calculate the avg. damages of Beast weaponry a week ago.

Weapon/StrReq/DexReq/Base Dmg/240%ED&Aura/270%ED&Aura
Tyrant Club____/133/--/32-58(45)/138.56-268.54(203.55)/148.16-268.54(208.35)
Reinforced Mace/145/46/41-49(45)/177.53-226.87(202.2)/189.83-226.87(208.35)
Scourge________/125/77/3-80(41.5)/12.99-370.4(191.695)/13.89-370.4(192.145)
Tomahawk_______/125/67/33-58(45.5)/142.89-268.54(205.715)/152.79-268.54(210.665)
WarSpike_______/133/54/30-48(39)/129.9-222.24(176.07)/138.9-222.24(180.57)
Berzerker Axe__/138/59/24-71(47.5)/103.92-328.73(216.325)/111.12-328.73(219.925)
Mighty Scepter_/125/65/40-52(46)/173.2-240.76(206.98)/185.2-240.76(212.98)
Caduceus_______/97/70/37-43(40)/160.21-199.09(179.65)/171.31-199.09(185.2)


All weapons listed have either [0] or [-10] weapons speed, with 11fps with the use of only Beast Runeword w/o any other sources of IAS.
Only the Berzerker Axe and Caduceus have higher level reqs than the highest Rune(Ber: LvlReq 63)in 'Beast', they have LvlReqs 64 and 66, respectively.

Not meant to say anything, its just another small guide for all other commando-wannabes out there.

TheKbob
08-03-2004, 18:47
Do the calculations in Bear Form. That's when I usually melee. I believe the bear speeds are faster. Also, add in roughly at least 40% external ias on top of the IAS on beast. I'm prob around 8 fps then.

My Fireclaws druid is 4fps and yes it is hard going back to that slow.

~Kbob

cher
08-03-2004, 19:14
The Guru has spoken!

I wasn't thinking much when I posted, and yes the caddy beats everything hands down with its sheer speed at zero extra IAS and good damage output.

Still keeping that 5 socket war spike in my warchest though.

Do the calculations in Bear Form. That's when I usually melee. I believe the bear speeds are faster. Also, add in roughly at least 40% external ias on top of the IAS on beast. I'm prob around 8 fps then.

My Fireclaws druid is 4fps and yes it is hard going back to that slow.

~Kbob

derekl480
08-03-2004, 22:32
does the fana on beast effect the attack rate of skeletal mages?

Mad Mantis
08-03-2004, 23:32
It should increase attack rate.

Koreforce
09-03-2004, 05:20
I find that with maxed skeleton mastery and maxed skeleton mage, plus skill bonuses, the combined damage can be quite noticeable. It's also good for those pesky phys immune monsters you never get a break from in Hell. Sometimes, against large groups or stronger enemies that tend to tear your warriors up like rag dolls, you can erect a good bone wall and blast them from behind it. Prison isn't exacly a good idea because it can only target one enemy and tends to congest the area, making it hard for you and your skeleton warriors to move around, but if you wish to use it, it can be a viable option against bosses.

(replying to last post on first page.....didn't see the second when I made this post)

Snarlin Stef
13-03-2004, 16:31
Interesting Guide. I want to try it. I have a list of questions:

1) why is cadeuces (sp) recomended over scourge?

2) does this necro have to actually fight in PVP? would a better idea be to stack the necro with tons of absorb gear and tons of stcked resists... and just focus on keeping him alive rather than actually fighting?

3) is poison dagger an uninterruptable attack?

4) do skeletons get your items bonuses? ie: Nos coil (slow), Dracul Grasp (lifetap), Giant Skull (knockback), Atmas Scarab (amp dmg).... do skeletons gain these type of abilities from your gear?

5) how powerfull are maxed skeles with maxed mastery and max skillers in a pvp arena? can FOH, or fire ball or Whirl attacks still shatter these summons easily?

thnx
stef

tl998
13-03-2004, 17:07
TheKbob. I'd like you to expand on your GamePlay section please. Assuming I don't want to use this build for pvp, and I find being rushed to baal, leech in runs, repeat ad infinitum to be very boring, how should I proceed thru the game? It seems like nobody wants to play thru the game anymore. It feels like your guide is more of a PVP guide than PVM because you didn't mention any trouble spots, or specific strategies against certain enemies. All you told us was to get thru the acts quickly so you can Baal. Seems very, very boring. Have you actually PVMed with this build extensively in normal and nightmare enough to offer us advice on how to get thru them unrushed (and assuming you only have average gear at best)?

Mad Mantis
13-03-2004, 18:08
1) why is cadeuces (sp) recomended over scourge?

Because Beast can't be made in a scourge.




3) is poison dagger an uninterruptable attack?

Not that I know of.




4) do skeletons get your items bonuses? ie: Nos coil (slow), Dracul Grasp (lifetap), Giant Skull (knockback), Atmas Scarab (amp dmg).... do skeletons gain these type of abilities from your gear?

No they do not. They are already very strong anymore would be overkill.

Necro
13-03-2004, 18:34
Would +fana or +all skill items raise the clvl of fana?

Snarlin Stef
13-03-2004, 19:00
Would +fana or +all skill items raise the clvl of fana?

no you cant increase it because you dont have the skill and the items doesnt "give you " the skill... the item is the owner of the skill.

NorrYtt
15-03-2004, 01:38
TheKbob. I'd like you to expand on your GamePlay section please. Assuming I don't want to use this build for pvp, and I find being rushed to baal, leech in runs, repeat ad infinitum to be very boring, how should I proceed thru the game? It seems like nobody wants to play thru the game anymore. It feels like your guide is more of a PVP guide than PVM because you didn't mention any trouble spots, or specific strategies against certain enemies. All you told us was to get thru the acts quickly so you can Baal. Seems very, very boring. Have you actually PVMed with this build extensively in normal and nightmare enough to offer us advice on how to get thru them unrushed (and assuming you only have average gear at best)?

I've been following this guide for the most part and I've got some input for the guide. For reference, I play the game in SP through every zone completing all quests (yes, I even assemble Kalim's Will; yes, I even pick gold up off the ground). I only have equipment I can find or gamble for. I do a lot of gambling when my cash floweth over.

Conclusions

20 Skele 20 SkeleMas and a Might merc is way stronger in 1.10 obviously, providing more than enough killing power and a very effective HP wall for a 40 skill point investment. The game is actually easier in /players8 than in /players1 mode. What you say? It's because all your minions never seem to die with the HP increase. In /players8 NM fighting a LEB like Decrep'd Stormtree's gang, you might lose 1 skele. It takes a boss pack to kill a skele, though your Golem and Mages need renewing at a regular basis. You also level like crazy and there's way more drops. Just /players1 Act Bosses or enjoy wasting your time.

If you can't teleport, figure out how. Now. You cannot hope to keep your minions and most importantly your merc on target with good positioning otherwise. It will save you hours of play time by improving your killing speed. Ormus sells Gnarled Staves of Teleportation (about 1.5K gold per charge) until you find a suitable replacement.

Normal Diablo, as usual, is by far the most crazy difficult monster because you are nowhere near a powerful summoner yet (all my necromancers struggle with Normal Diablo). He rips through every summon with a single cast of a fire ring or LBoD spell. If you melee him, you will quickly be all alone with no help. I suggest you slow him with chill+Clay+Decrep and teleport on top of him so he hopefully melees you 4 times in a row, then kills your team and forces you to acquire a new one. Your skill levels improve dramatically later to make NM a breeze.

This guide, plain and simply, does not work without high end uber gear. I'm running around with my junky Smoke, Sigon's Guard, Nagel, Taboo, Treads, Wormskull and all the best gambles I can get getting totally destroyed by any monster that acquires me as a target. NM Stygian Dolls send me into hit recovery lock because I lack high bone armor and I whiff at everything. Before you go melee with a necro, you need a fiercely played MFing sorc.

If you are playing anew with only gear you find, make the Commandomancer your end goal, but at some point in NM you will have to switch up. I became a Bowmancer with a single point in Poison Nova to stop monster regen, alternating between Decrep, Poison Nova, shoot, shoot, shoot, repeat. An especially dense pack gets a flurry of Corpse Explosions thrown in. Decrep is my curse of choice because it can usually hit the whole mob in one or two casts, but it needs to be renewed often. It creates a huge damage advantage for my team (slows enemy damage by 200%, increases my damage output by 50% plus a little more because my team hits more often). Even though I'm doing more casting than actual fighting, I'm at least not using a wand like a normal summoner, my stat points can continue to mold to a Commandomancer (high dex for max block, base energy), and I can proceed further into the game this way.

Personally, I like caster revives because it makes the screen prettier with Blood Lords dropping Meteors or Cantors conjuring Blizzards. For practicality, Frenzytaurs or FrenzyThrashers, Urdars, or extra fast boss minions will kill faster, but don't you want your enemies roasting in Firewalls and Lightning in addition to everything else you're throwing at them?

I would just like to mention this build was and is still is very fun. You learn tricks like Teleporting to a corner of the room, forming the ideal semicircle of death, and cleaning the room by advancing toward the far corner. That's more fun than waiting for them all to come through a doorway, though that's safer and the CE's are stronger there, too. As a Bowmancer, whenever I Teleport on top of a boss they always smack me, so I aim just close enough for my minions to engage by taking a step forward while I take a step back. At the end of a mob you can Life Tap the last monster or two to heal everybody up.

Bonus! - Here's a diagram of what is happening during my normal PvM gameplay:

Mage . . . . . . Mage . . . . . . . . Mage (Cold or Poison for effects not damage)

. . . . . . . Me, Bowmancer . . . . . . . .

Revived Cantor . . . . . . . Revived Cantor (Lightnings and Blizzards)

/ / / / / | | | | | | | | | | | \ \ \ \ \ \ \ (Poison Nova spread, hits all monsters)

. . . Fire Golem (boom!) . . . . . . . Might Merc (does all the work)
Skele Skele Skele Skele Skele Skele Skele Skele Skele
Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster (Decrepified)
Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster Monster (Decrepified)


RangedCaster Monster (fleeing with Terror) RangedCaster Monster (fleeing with Terror)

Hypnectic
15-03-2004, 02:11
well bob seems to me your commando-mancer is just a summoner...with alot of auras, you be better off calling him....ummm AuraMancer. lol. :thumbsup:

TheKbob
15-03-2004, 03:05
Well lemme see,

Last comment above.. no he is a combination of THREE builds. Meleemancer is the last addition making him different than some guy just standing there.

To PvP, yeah you can just stand there, but I always at least swing in human form because I do about 1.5k-2.5k or so damage and my hits are good as well. Res? I don't need to stack because mine are fine in hell. Chuck in a few +15 res all gcs or smalls and that should top you off (+ annihilus).

This would PvM like any other summoner. I do not recommend a Commando for a new person to D2 nor that does not know a Summoner yet. Follow the 3 easy steps:

1) Learn to Play the game
2) Learn to Play a Summoner
3) Go Commando

Teleportation is easy to find, people just have to look!


to tl998...
This is build is a top of the line build. I did earn my way through norm and power acted myself through NM. I have played D2 for three years and just going "through" the game is old and bland. Only 3 things excite me now:

1)Acquiring Gear for chars
2)Magic Finding
3)PvP

Again, this is a guide for more experienced players. I do not suggest a new person to pick this one as their first due to the req of very nice gear.

~Kbob

OldSkoolGamer
26-03-2004, 18:30
Well, I wasn't going to post in this thread until I had finished my Commando, but an idea came across me this morning. I know that Kbob uses his for PvP mainly, but for leveling purposes you are probably going to be joining public games for the higher experience gain. In party play you are going to more than likely join up with a Fanatic Zealot Paladin sooner or later. Now, don't get me wrong, I simply LOVE :love: my Beast Caddy. However, when I higher level Fanaticism is present, it's usefulness decreases. So here is what I am thinking about.

Fury Fanged Knife (http://e.1asphost.com/OldSkoolGamer/furyfanged.html) for weapon switch.

Fury
3 Socket Melee Weapons
Jah + Gul + Eth

+209% Enhanced Damage
40% Increased Attack Speed
Prevent Monster Heal
66% Chance Of Open Wounds
33% Deadly Strike
Ignore Target's Defense
-25% Target Defense
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
6% Life Stolen Per Hit
+5 To Frenzy (Barbarian Only)

Two uses come to mind.
If you are going to be using the Poison Dagger bug for AR anyway, when a Fanatic Pally is around you can use PD like a madman.
If you are like me, you love making people's jaws drop when you shift into bear. Use you Beast to shift, then weapon switch, and watch as everything around you dies of blood loss from Open Wounds. Not to mention the damage bonus when you Deadly Strike, and if you happen to have 10% Crushing Blow crafted gloves it is even sweeter.

TheKbob
26-03-2004, 18:56
Oldskool is correct but for ladder players, I suggest Fleshripper or crescent moon phase (static :clap: ).

Azurewrath could be funny as well, but prob getting close to fury's cost.

~Kbob

OldSkoolGamer
26-03-2004, 19:47
I though about Fleshripper and Crescent Moon Phase as well. The main advantage I see with Fury Fanged Knife over Fleshripper is the speed in bear form. Fleshripper is nicer for the Necromancer who chooses to use the actually Poison Dagger skill.

Cresent moon's only problem is that it loses much of it's usefulness against lightning immunes. Granted there aren't quite as many of them as fire or cold immunes, but it can still be a problem in certain areas.

I admit I didn't take Azurewrath into consideration. It is a beautiful weapon, and its only problem is a lack of Open Wounds, Deadly Strike, and Crushing Blow. Plus you get another Aura. :yep:

Zhidkoe
01-04-2004, 17:34
So, I am Pindling away with my sorc(I know) and thinking about how bad I need that Ber rune to get beast for my mancer, then remembering that I need a damn fine weapon to put it in as well=( The meteor drops=Pindle and friends as well and there it is! Superior Caduceus. Pick it up, trembling slightly exit and enter new, identify, sell the the other drops and look:

15% ED
+1 to Redemption(pala only)
Increase maximum durability 15%
+50% damage to undead




socketed [3]


NOOOOOOO!
WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME GOD!

soulesschild
10-05-2004, 21:43
good guide kbob, recently just got all i needed to make this build, though im using an ettin axe beast =/ should i try to get a beast caddy or what?

also a question on the PD AR bug, do i have to have the skill selected or can i just put points into it and have it give me AR like a passive skill?

edit:

kbob, if im not gonna max mages, do you recommend maxing a curse? like Iron Maiden for melee

TheKbob
10-05-2004, 22:26
Ettin I dont think is too taxing on stats. The best reason for beast is its high Dur (I hate repairing) low req, and its speed. I'm more partial to it than an Axe.

You must have skill selected for the AR thing to work. It is not passive.

Maxing a curse... no not IM. I suggest go with mages of PvP, why you ask?

1) More Meat shields, help tank for the true hitters, Skele Warriors

2) If a char is not so proficient in a res, 1 out of 4 or so skeles should do some damage.

3) Adds Ranged attack.

4) Bigger army in general, and that is kinda the point.


~Kbob

soulesschild
11-05-2004, 04:11
hey kbob, the only flaw i see in this in pvping is the slow cast rate, what do you suggest?

Heaven Torn Asunder
16-05-2004, 00:26
Great guide!

10/10

TheKbob
16-05-2004, 01:47
hey kbob, the only flaw i see in this in pvping is the slow cast rate, what do you suggest?

Never really had a prob. I guess the best thing would be to keep a Wizspike somewhere if you feel its needed. In PvP, I wasn't the one usually doing the running and one stack on most Pubbie duelers would take them out due to block lock, FHR animation, and such that they couldn't move to well.

Zons are the funniest. 25+ Things swinging at them... dodge lock!

~Kbob

Lanx
23-05-2004, 10:43
It is amusing that the myth of the poison dagger bug ist still around, but there is no poison dagger bug nor has there been any in the last patches. If you use pd with a weapon other than a dagger you gain neither the poison damage nor the attack rating. It just does not work.

TheKbob
23-05-2004, 15:36
It is amusing that the myth of the poison dagger bug ist still around, but there is no poison dagger bug nor has there been any in the last patches. If you use pd with a weapon other than a dagger you gain neither the poison damage nor the attack rating. It just does not work.

Dead wrong.

I have used it time and time again. I can even go check right now...

Using a Fury Cryptic Sword:

Before Psn Dagger selected:

67% Chance to hit a fallen in Hell

After Psn Dagger is selected:

89% Chance to hit a fallen in Hell


Hmm... doesnt exist huh :scratch: I can only guess that you think it doesnt exist by the fact that it doesn't show your AR. You must move you pointer over where it should be and see that you % Chance to hit has increased.

I never said you get any poison damage.

Research and Test before calling something blatantly wrong next time.

~Kbob

Lanx
23-05-2004, 21:04
Right, I did not want to say that you meant that even the poison damage is applied. But you wrong nonetheless; the rating is displayed, but not applied. You gain nothing, the display is wrong.

AFAIK, it is the same as with Maul (Druid-Skill); you can use it on you left mouse button as man (not a bear), the AR field is empty and displays a cth value on mouse over, but you gain nothing by the skill when using it as man, neither damage nor AR.

Mad Mantis
23-05-2004, 21:05
This is the point where you say that you have proof. After that you show us the proof.

soulesschild
24-05-2004, 02:38
i dont think there is readily any way to test it out is there? unless u like uh...took 100 swings at a monster/person and see how many times you hit...

Mad Mantis
24-05-2004, 09:34
At level 20 Dagger gives an impressive +410% to AR. If you use a character with low AR and thus low chance to hit and then abuse the bug you should see results.

The difference between 67% and 89% is rather large. A character with slightly lower AR would see an even bigger change. Not in absolute sense, but in feel.

You should use a rather high hitpoint monster so that you can whack it several times. For good measure about 20 to 30 times. Izzy has an insane amount if HP's. He should do the job nicely.

dmcs414
24-05-2004, 21:53
Hello all,

I'm new to this forum but I'm an old D2 player. I never thought I'd reinstall and start over, but this build just grabbed me and I had to try it out. I started with nothing and I've made it to Hell. I gotta say this character is more fun than probably the last 3 builds I was using in 1.09. This was an awesome build guide, Kbob. Congrats to you. So, here's where I ended up, approximately: (this is from memory, I may be a bit off)
Level 63
Str-130
Dex-110
Vit-125
Eng-Base
Poison Dagger - about 11
Bone Armor - 5
Bone Wall - about 11
Bone Prison - 0 (still looking for Marrowwalks)
Clay Golem - about 10
Golem Mastery - 8 (have +3 GM shrunken head)
Dim Vision - 5
Decrepify - about 14
LR - 2 or 3

So, my gear is all random stuff; hand-me-downs and things like that. For a weapon I'm using a 'Demon Limb' (which seem to be everywhere - I found this one on the ground, and people have tried giving me two more).
Off-hand is a shrunken head with +GM and +CG. Armor is Rattlecage, Helmet is Sabazi's Mental Whatever, Gloves are 20%IAS and some mana leech, Belt, Boots, Rings and Amulets are random rare items (+AR, etc)

I actually meant to stay in NM for at least 10-15 more levels and collect better gear, but I was doing a Baal run and went to get a beverage, came back to find they had killed Baal. So, I'm in Hell now. I was doing pretty well in NM; I had learned a number of tricks to manage crowds and was making the most of Decrepify + Amp, the Clay Golem and Might from my Merc. I think now I may be screwed though, as I'm sure I'm nowhere close to being set for Hell. If any of you chaps would be willing to help me out with some spare gear or lead me on a few more NM Baal runs, I'd appreciate it. I'm *dmcs414 on USEast softcore ladder. My email addy is also in my profile.

Lanx
24-05-2004, 23:06
At level 20 Dagger gives an impressive +410% to AR. If you use a character with low AR and thus low chance to hit and then abuse the bug you should see results.

The difference between 67% and 89% is rather large. A character with slightly lower AR would see an even bigger change. Not in absolute sense, but in feel.

You should use a rather high hitpoint monster so that you can whack it several times. For good measure about 20 to 30 times. Izzy has an insane amount if HP's. He should do the job nicely.

Sorry for the delay. This is my suggestion, too. You need a character with an abysmal chance to hit, ideally under 50%, which should be boosted by PD to 70% and more, and a very bad weapon. (One-Hit-Wonders are counter productive here ;) .) Then compare your cth without and with PD activated. Be careful that your merc is not interfering. And ah ... don't die!

You only got a normal attack. AS and d2.net (http://www.diabloii.net/items/weapons/daggers.shtml) both point out that PD only works with a dagger and no other weapon. They do not know of such a bug. AFAIK, even Meleemancers do not consider using a "PD-Bug" for gaining attack rating. Such a bug would be a revelation to them. We even know of wrong displays in the game (e. g. the display bug with skeleton damage). So it is not my part to falsify the existence of a hypothetical bug, it is the task to give proof of the bug for(?) all postulating such a bug.

Sorry for my English, I am not a native speaker. And sorry if I sounded rude in my first post.

Mad Mantis
24-05-2004, 23:17
AFAIK, even Meleemancers do not consider using a "PD-Bug" for gaining attack rating. Such a bug would be a revelation to them.

I'm a Meleemancer. Have been since I got the game. The only reason I do not use the bug is because of the fact that it is a bug. My ethics (damn them, must get rid of them someday) do not allow me to exploit things in games.

I'll go and do some testing. I'll keep you posted on what I find.

Kbob, could you also do some testing? For conformation.





Sorry for my English, I am not a native speaker. And sorry if I sounded rude in my first post.

Don't sweat it. I'm not a native speaker. There are more of us then you would think. We probably even outnumber the Americans. :drool:

Aron Figaro
25-05-2004, 13:59
I've been poking around with that because my own Commando uses the PD bug and it does help get his AR over crap. It is definitely applied.

TheKbob
25-05-2004, 15:34
If I must I will. It seems my guide has gotten a bit of a resurgence of late. hmmm...

~Kbob

Aron Figaro
26-05-2004, 00:07
Well I hope it does get some resurgence around here! The Commandomancer is one of the coolest builds of d2!

HardyZ
26-05-2004, 12:05
Hi Kbob!

just a minor mistake in your guide

III. Gear
Weapons:

1)Beast Runeword weapon:
(Weapons of Preference: )
Caddy = Not the highest damage, but fast and has high Durablity (70). Very Rare, though.
Warspike = Faster than Caddy with less damage. 26 Dur. Pricey as Zerker.


Well, it's not "faster than caddy", both have the same weapon speed (-10) ;)
but as i said, it's quite a minor mistake regarding the hugeness of that guide!

Oh, and btw, 5 sox war spike is way cheaper than 5 sox zerker.


Very very nice guide anyway, Kbob! and the build seems very fun as well, albeit very expensive, especially for ladder players, thus not really accessible to a good share of them

Nice Job!

:flip: HardyZ :flip:

TheKbob
26-05-2004, 15:20
I am remaking mine, tweaking a few things here and there. I will prob use a pre-buff setup for skeles now, Um my Homun, test out Verdungos because I have come into some fine, fine crafted blood gloves.

I dont really like any of the axes, too low of durability. I can keep an ort around till caddy gets down to like 2 and insta fix it back up to 70.

Last Commando got to 1.5K - 2.5K Damage. I don't know if I'll reach that with new tweaks I'm making. We shall have to wait and see.

~Kbob

van_ham
30-05-2004, 04:39
Just thinking here. . . for PvP since the life leech from life tap isnt nerfed wouldnt you be able to leech insane amounts from your attacks? I mean, think about it. . . widow maker guided arrow with 30+ minions means u can continuously leech maybe more than half your health.

Providing your target cant kill you in one hit, you would be virtually invincible. Unless there's some life-tap bug i havent heard about or blizzard nerfed that too, it seems like a good choice for a commando mancer.

*Thinks about insane amounts of life leech* :surprise: