The Next-gen Attribute system

Posted 8th Dec 2008 06:06 PM by Leord

A Battle.net poster made a suggestion on the official boards on how an attribute system in Diablo 3 could work, with more effects to a given stat the more points were in it. As is always the case with discusses about stats in Diablo III, the issue of auto-stat placement came up, and that's when Bashiok chimed in with an extensive post on the matter of automatic stats, and also a request for help with greater variety in Diablo III.

Blizzard Quote:
Thanks for the thread and I wanted to say I do appreciate the time and effort and ideas being put in to coming up with solutions for topics that are important to you. I want to try to put the idea of auto attribute allocation, the topic of this thread, in a potentially different light though. Potentially.

It seems there are really only a few core problems for those that do take issue with auto attributes when you boil it down. The loss of a customization option and the ability to create builds for characters that are apart from the norm - or even just kind of crazy and experimental. Some other issues could be a loss of a “leveling achievement” and also just the classic RPG design of manually spending points on base stats. Sort of a nostalgia issue, but still valid in its own right.

So I’ll sort of tackle these each on their own and then hopefully give you some things to think about.

First is the loss of customization, and I’ve mentioned before that we don’t think it will be an issue, but let me elaborate a bit more. With the current skill system, runes, and item affixes, as well as other unmentionables, there’s not going to be any issue with not having enough customization. If there is, bottom line, we’ll add more. We’re not going to release a game we’re not happy with, and a lack of character customization options would make us unhappy. But, even right now we have a lot more variety and ability to customize a character than Diablo II had. I’m going to come back to some of this later because we’d like your help.

Somewhat similarly is being able to create “off-spec” builds, or characters that aren’t just cookie cutter ideals of the class you’re playing. This is important to the game, and we will ensure that it doesn't get "tuned out" of the game. Most importantly though being able to manually spend attributes does not make this a possibility. Which is to say that us automatically assigning attributes does not take away the ability to make these types of characters, at all. Manual attributes were not what made them possible in Diablo II. The ability to make these types of characters relies solely on the complexity and diversity of the the options available to steer your character, and not that they come in the form of a "+" button.

The loss of a feeling of a leveling achievement is actually something we recognize and intend to address.

The nostalgia of simply having points, and spending them on base stats is probably the most difficult. Liking something because it’s familiar is difficult to argue with, but it’s also probably the easiest to overcome. Since we can’t force your memories out of you, we just have to make the best game we can and hope you realize that manual attribute assignment isn’t the best, most engaging or entertaining form of character customization possible, and that we’re offering an even deeper and richer game without those buttons. Or you’ll just forget you even cared because you're playing Diablo III and it's totally kick ass... one or the other.

Back to the part where I said we’d like your help. We want a lot of items in the game, and with that we want to have a lot of affixes. The largest pool of character-focusing mojo is coming from your items, so we plan to have a very diverse selection. While we have been and continue to come up with as many affixes as we can we’d like some help from you guys in coming up with more. We have some pretty crazy stuff already but I don’t want to influence your creativity - plus when it’s one we already have and it goes in to the game you can tell all your friends it was your idea. So if you'd like somewhere to focus your creative energy, this is the place.

That aside I know I missed some specific concerns and points, so any follow up questions are welcome. Being Friday I’ll try to get to some today but they may have to wait until next week.


Bashiok said what other Blizzard guys have said before; that the lack of manual stat assignment does not mean lack of specialization; it's a style change, and it's mostly nostalgia and the lack of fuller knowledge about D3 that has the fans upset. What do you think?


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Filed under: Blue Posts, Bashiok

Comments

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Gamekk
Posted 08, Dec 2008 08:28 PM
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What Bashiok says is true.

There won’t have a lack of character customization. What made out of norm builds in DII were all about skills and gear and a very few about stats.

Essentially, stats were out of balance because you could wear a 170 str req. armor very early if you aimed for it at the start of you characters creation. The only real “customization” stats were offering were things such as, if you’re a zon, do you want more hit points or damage points (dex or vit)? If you’re a paladin, do you want max block or straight vit (one is stronger against magic attacks, and one for melee attacks)?

Sure, it’s an aspect of customization, but a minor one. And builds is what matters, it’s just going to be more balanced with hit points damage and w/e the 2 other attributes do.

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nasarius
Posted 08, Dec 2008 08:38 PM
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The loss of a feeling of a leveling achievement is actually something we recognize and intend to address.

That is perhaps the most interesting comment. Having only one skill point to allocate when you level up does lessen the achievement a bit. I wonder what their plans might be.

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Galtrovan
Posted 08, Dec 2008 09:43 PM
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Having a multitude of character customization options to compensate for not being able to assign our own stat points is great and all, but what Blizzard is implementing has one drawback that I don’t like.  All the runes, item affixes, and other unmentionables, have to be obtained by adventuring.  Having an idea for a build that requires a certain stat allocation and not being able to do it simply because I don’t have equipment that gives me the proper stats, when I could have assigned the stats myself, will make me an unhappy camper.

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Knight_Wolf
Posted 08, Dec 2008 09:44 PM
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@nasarius

I heard they are five skill points not one, it wouldn’t make sense you get only one when we have over 70 skills for each class and each skill has multiple levels.

Oh ... and nice post by Bashiok ^_^

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gerbele
Posted 08, Dec 2008 09:55 PM
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I still can’t help but feel a little dissapointed with this loss.  With a game like Diablo, why would they try to stop me from making a Titan Barb with nothing but STR?  If that build sucks, then it is my mistake and my wasted time.  These kind of games will always eventually go towards a select number of charcters that “work best”.  Taking out some of the customization will expedite this process. 

I wonder if they ever considered a hybrid of the two where each class had the majority of points go to each attribute but maybe an extra 1 or 2 to be used at the players discretion?  I think that would be a happy medium and allow a player to descide if they wanted just a little bit more HP or MP for their character.

Regarding his request for help, I hope they bring back random pre/suffixes that have negative, like the old Diablo 1 days.  Again, this would lengthen the time it would take people to get uber gear and dominate.  They may have to take a little bad with their great finds.

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Tarantio
Posted 08, Dec 2008 11:22 PM
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Here’s the current thread for suggestions: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?forumId=12007&sid=3000&topicId=13275301558&pageNo=1&

I don’t happen to have a cd key on me right now, so I can’t post there, but I’m interested in some suggestions. 

1. ...of Giant Growth
Chance on hit/ being hit of increasing size, strength, hitpoints, (maybe spellpower?) temporarily.  Possibly have a chance to do the same to an enemy.

2. Possessed…
There are a few ways to go with this one.  The most basic would be to have the item give a chance to summon a demon for you to fight, for a little extra experience/loot. It could also have an associated boost to stats.

To make it a bigger deal, the demon summon would be a one-time thing.  It starts as an item with a boost to stats, but which randomly hinders you in some way.  I.E. a chance to damage you, slow you, blind you, drain your mana, etc. whenever struck.  It also has maybe a 1 in 200 chance to, upon killing an enemy, summon an exceptionally powerful demon (power relative to your level, or that of the item) which tries to kill you.  Upon killing this demon, the item becomes Purified, with a larger boost to stats, or perhaps some other effect.

This idea might also work as another class of item, like Rare is in D2, with the random bonuses of other prefixes and suffixes.

If someone would like to post this in the thread linked above, I’d be much obliged.

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stillman
Posted 09, Dec 2008 12:03 AM
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Knight_Wolf,

It’s one skill point per level, not five. It is in the diii wiki. Look under Experience and scroll down a bit.

I can see the trouble here as you spend a hudred hours leveling your chr only to get one point to play with. But maybe they’ll give us some more options.

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teh_Thrasher
Posted 09, Dec 2008 04:50 AM
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sounds good. stat points were bunk in d2 anyways so auto allocate em up for sure. 1 skill point is a little lacking but i wont mind. there will be other ways to increase the power of my character

item suffix ... of Taunting upon striking target monster is enraged and attacks recklessly. (chance to miss and less dmg… maybe increased attack speed)*yes just like the d2 skill taunt but in weapon form.

of confusion… of conversion.. both would be nice during mob fights but not vs single monsters.  id rather have these than have the monster flee from me (when in melee)

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Wurmbollie
Posted 09, Dec 2008 01:44 PM
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@Tarantio

posted for you.

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bondball7
Posted 09, Dec 2008 07:08 PM
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I don’t understand why people think that stat allocation in D2 stinks.  I assume most of them think that it’s because now that there are guides for every possible build, there is no real need for it.  The game has been out for 10 years!!  Think about when it first came out and you were putting stats in…best part of the game.  Just because D2 has been played so much that people don’t need to experiment anymore doesn’t mean that D3 should cut that part of the ‘beginners’ experience out.

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