Reflects Damage too Dangerous in v1.05?
Posted 2 November 2012 by FluxA fan offers some QQing about the 
Reflects Damage boss modifier and touches off a conversation with the always-sympathetic Lylirra.
Monster Power.
Since monsters have a lot more health in the higher MP levels, not only do fights last longer, but players need to do a lot more damage in order to kill their targets. Of course, that means there’s a lot more opportunity for you to get hit with Reflects Damage. So, whereas before the patch, a player may have been able to kill monsters with the Reflects Damage affix no problem and with health to spare, now that fights are lasting longer that same player may not have as much success — at least, not without making some adjustments to their build or gear.
That said, we do agree that we can make some improvements. For example, we’ll be making it so that damage dealt by pets will no longer reflect back to the player. We’re also toying with the idea of changing Reflects Damage so that it has a duration and can only be activated by monsters periodically (rather than it always being active), but that’s definitely not yet set in stone.
NOOOO, don’t cave to these pussys.
Lylirra: If we feel like it’s a change that will be better for the long-term health of the game, then we’ll move forward with it. We certainly appreciate your thoughts and feedback on the matter in the meantime. 
I just wish reflect dmg monsters have an aura or something so I can identify it before getting myself killed.
Lylirra: I’ll pass on the suggestion.
How about just changing it so RD can be dodged like pre-patch and all problems solved….duh
Lylirra: You could never actually dodge Reflects Damage in the live game. The bug only existed in the PTR version of 1.0.5 (which was fixed before we released the patch), so the “we fixed it” line never should been included in the live patch notes; it was, however, correctly included in the PTR patch notes.
I can take the heat for that one.
Despite having Reflect Damage being an everyday complain on General/PTR Feedback thread FOR MONTHS, despite realizing it’s a bad design, nothing was discusses by the CMs til now. I didn’t wanna complain about lack of communication but really :/
Lylirra: We certainly saw the discussions before hand and passed them along, but there were no plans for adjustments that we could communicate until now.
Have you guys noticed a similar difficulty, and do you think it’s a bad thing? After all, the whole point in Reflects Damage as a boss mod is that it’s *supposed* to be hard, and force you to change your play style a bit. So that one type of monster can’t just be buried by ever-increasing DPS.
That debate aside, I can definitely second the motion to give RD bosses an aura or some other visual representation. Perhaps a rotating halo of tiny tombstones? I haven’t had the problem so much in v1.05, but in previous versions, while MFing in very low hps and defensive gear, I regularly nuked myself by attacking RD boss packs before I saw their mods. One cast of Stampede and a trail of Ball Lightning orbs going in and my DH would shrivel in less than a second. It was a bit reminiscent of MSLEs in D2, pre-v1.10, where you had to check the mods before you opened up, especially at close range, lest you killed yourself in a blink.
And no, not all forms of nostalgia are pleasant.
I stack life steal, life on hit at the cost of other stats. Just so I may survive this.
Same. I have a considerably less DPS weapon that I keep handy that has +951 Life on Hit that usually give me the endurance to outlast the Reflect Dmg modifier.
Is that a 1-hander with 951 loh? Thought the max was 939?
959.
Sure there are some ways of mitigating the reflected damage. It’s just not fair when many things don’t proc LoH but reflect tons of damage.
Flux, change “play style” in the middle of a fight? if skills can be changed instantly and nv stacks are not affected in inferno, sure. In fact I’m happy to change my play style all the time vs. different mobs. But I simply cant and wont because this is just one OP affix, and I dont think its fair.
And you say it’s “supposed” to be hard?
the entire inferno was “supposed” to be hard
azmodan and diablo were “supposed” to be hard
even the act3 keywarden is “supposed” to be hard
just wake up and look at where we are, people kill mp10 inferno azmodan in under a minute with millions of dmg. we are talking about the best commander of the burning hell being crushed like a road kill.
azmondan the best commander in hell vs. a random elite pack with RD
which one is supposed to be harder??
Blizzard should not change it. Everyone complaining needs to look at the stupidity of their own build. 200K DPS, 30K life, no life-regen and/or no life-on-hit and/or no life steal… yes, dumb ass, you are going to kill yourself.
AFAIK it’s just an FU to non-melee, since they never has to worry about this. As a barb I don’t really have to care about 90% affixes, especially in wrath form. I liked the suggestion I read somewhere where it could be like shielding that activates on one or two elites at a time, instead of all of them.
Don’t know about barbs but my monk packs 100k+ unbuffed dps with 1k loh and gets STFUPWNED by RD packs. Only way is to pop serenity +fitl+overawe – dps 4 secs – kite – repeat after cooldown. And yes, I love that challenge. Hope it doesn’t get ‘fixed’. You can also keep a 900 loh 1-hand that drops your dps to reasonable levels but cuts the hassle. I do but its mostly for uber ghom.
Doesn’t ranged chars pack some loh/ls?
An aura would be helpful.
i have nearly 3000 life/sec, and a few % life steal, i still kill myself if i throw 5 orbs into the middle of a pack before i know if its RD. like nearly instantaneously
granted, there are a FEW more adjustments i could make, but i find it silly that i have to sacrifice other stats for ONE monster mod, when not a single of the other ones give me trouble.
May I ask, when you run into an elite pack, why aren’t you looking at the elite’s mods before attacking them? To me, every elite pack should give everyone pause/fear before engaging.
May I ask, if you know you can make further adjustments why are you not making them? You should not be entitled to stack nothing but DPS to beat the game. You should be required to pay attention to blocking, dodge, armor rating, resistances, and the affixes of the enemies you are attacking. So far, Blizzard is failing miserably at this. A nerf or removal of reflect damage will just make this failure more complete.
reflect damage has been scaring my HC char a lot lately.
From a design/functionality standpoint this is one of the least problematic mods, and I like that it gives me an extra dimension against which to think about when planning how I’m going to use the terrain/layout/selected skills to deal with a pack.
This is just bull****. How would u possibly use layout / terrain against reflect damage huh?
and this is the least of the concerns regarding mods? whats wrong with molten? eletricified? nightmarish? jailer? frozen?
2 people actually recommend your post pfft.. trolls
I haven’t had too much trouble with RD. I have noticed tho as I attempt to farm regularly in MP4 that some mobs hit way way harder than other mobs.
For instance, I ran into 3 elite packs today at the same time. Wasps, Fallen ones, and the Fallen Overseers. I sort of kited it. (just ran in a circle doing as much damage as I could without standing in flames or poison) I almost survived it. I was able to take out one pack and half another before I got vortexed to my death. I finished the pack cleanly on second attempt. Largely a success considering I was surrounded by 3 elite packs.
Then I run over to Alcarnus and run into a elite pack of the deranged acultists. They tore me apart before I even hit them. Wiping out my 46.7k health in a blink of an eye. It was their hits too, wasn’t even their affixes. I had to take careful leaps to stun them pull off a rend and run like hell over and over.
Pretty sure the deranged cultists elites have damage values that are out of whack with other mobs at similar levels.
I noticed the same issue with them in 1.0.4 on my WD, where I could easily facetank a few hits from any A2 mob except them. Similarly, my DH can take 4ish hits from most elites on MP1, but one hit from these guys takes my health all the way down to 25-30%.
Interestingly, it’s not just the Alcarnus version – I’ve run into the exact same inordinate damage issue when a pack of these guys spawns in Leoric’s Manor Courtyard.
With most enemies, strong enemies are slow, weak enemies are fast. Those guys are one of the few exceptions being both strong and fast, along with old soul lashers. That’s why.
The 2/3 packs together fights are truly memorable adrenaline pumping moments. The best that d3 can offer until pvp arrives.
I really don’t understand the issue with Reflect Damage … although I only have experience with one class.
As a Witch Doctor, Acid Rain and even Well of Souls gives a ton of Life on Hit that my self-healing out-weighs the RD damage by quite a bit.
I don’t have much experience with other classes, but my DH doesn’t really care about RD. The only time it ruins my day is when I’m playing w/ my Wizard friend and I get the +20% ranged damage bonus – I’ve nuked myself a few times accidentally since I don’t have a good feel for how much damage I’m putting out in that situation. Personally, I like the affix, because it forces me to engage the game, rather than just mindlessly spamming Ball Lightning while watching Netflix. (A visual cue, or the ability to prioritize the order of affixes, would be welcome — I’d certainly put RD and wall first if I could.)
That being said, I can see how it’d be annoying for people who don’t have Shadow Power-type skills. If it’s truly a problem – and not just a barrier to faceroll – capping the amount of damage reflected per second might be a solution. Say, something like 15%-20% of the player’s maximum health per second? That gives players about three seconds to realize they’re killing themselves and to take appropriate action.
Reflect damage needs to stay in the game. As much as i hate it, it is there for balance purposes. This is the only thing that prevents glass cannons from ruling the game. It is not perfect but i can understand why it’s the way it is.
Do we want d2 style, zero vitality max dps class cannons in d3 too?
“Do we want d2 style, zero vitality max dps class cannons in d3 too?”
from a logical standpoint, no.
but from a passionate standpoint where the only reason i play ARPG’s is to utterly destroy everything in my path… HELL YES.
Consider this logic. You are finding better gear. You are doing more damage. You have the same, or likely lower defenses after the defensive skills nerf.
Doing more damage with reflect is a perfectly natural development.
For me, stuff that was tens of millions before is tens or hundreds of thousands now. I’ve not even played that much since returning and my Barb’s DPS is up 50%, and Monk’s around 200%. If I were not so busy they’d have went up further. So yeah, I can easily see people killing themselves from rapidly increasing DPS.
Retarded affix for DH, wish they removed it completely.
I’m sorry, you need to learn to play. I play regularly with 2 friends that have DH’s as their main. One doesn’t give a crap about RD. He has a proper build and RD is a non issue. The other, he kills himself a lot. I’m not saying he doesn’t pay attention, but he built a glass cannon without enough mitigation, and a stray shot or miscalculation on whether or not he can shoot one more time when low on life, and he ends up dead. The build and the ramifications of it are a choice he made. He lives with it and doesn’t expect the game to be changed to cater to his build. And I find it a pleasure to play with him.