On the Drawing Board #16: Party-Friendly Skills

Posted 28th Oct 2009 09:47 AM by Flux

While the D3 Team has talked a lot about their planned improvements to the multiplayer experience in Diablo 3, they have yet to detail many (any?) of the actual benefits that will accrue to the players in a multiplayer game. The developers have shared their concept of MP gaming, and how they want to encourage it, but the feature changes thus far announced are all more about removing the un-fun elements of MP play that exist in D2, rather than new features or spells that will actually work better in MP games than they do solo.

For instance, here are some of the “improvements” to the MP experience that we know we’ll see in Diablo 3:

No non-consensual PvP (No Pking.)
There aren’t any details yet on how this will work, but from the hints given it sounds like there will simply be no way to PvP in regular games, and players will have to join special PvP or Arena type games to fight head to head. (Old school Mking techniques, like leading dozens of monsters to trap waypoints, will presumably still be possible. Where there’s a will, griefers will always find a way.)

Click through for the rest of this article.

Better game finding/joining tools.
Jay Wilson has talked about how the D2 style of scanning lists of game names is sub-optimal. They want much better friend list contact options, and their dream system for D3 is a way for players in a game to agree to play another game together, and with some simple clicks it would be so.

Individual item/gold drops.
No more early bird gets the golden worm; now every player within some critical range of a dying monster will get an item/gold drop only they can see or pick up. (This doesn’t mean that every single monster will drop an item for every player in the game, though most bosses will. It just means that the drops your character sees can’t be snatched by anyone else.) There is, of course, debate about how this might be exploited by MF-wearing tag alongs.

Shared health globes
Every character within range will receive the benefits of a health globe when any other character activates (walks over) one. This includes (presumably) the non-hps benefits of a health globe, such as various skills that activate upon using them, mana recovery for the Witch Doctor, etc.

These are all features that most Diablo players welcome (well, except for the PKs) but you’ll note that none of them are actually bonus benefits to playing in parties. (We’re assuming that experience sharing will work something like it did in D2, though this has never been addressed by the D3 Team.) They’re just removed disincentives to playing together. You don’t get more item drops, or more health globes, by playing in a D3 party. You just don’t have to worry about other players stealing your lewtz if they’re quicker to the scene of the crime.

True, the removal of disincentives is an incentive of a sort, but from what they’ve shown us so far, the D3 Team seems to assume we’re all gagging eager to party up and play in big games, and all they need to do is remove the negative aspects of party play that we all saw in D2 to have us lining up to party up. I’m not sure that’s the case, since so far in Diablo 3, we’ve seen almost nothing of shared skills, which provided perhaps the strongest benefit to playing together in Diablo 2.

It was possible to play a D2 game with just Amazons and Sorceresses, but everyone was happier to see a Barbarian, or a Paladin, or a Druid, join their game since they knew those characters had party-benefiting skills. A few odd play styles aside, when you saw one of those characters you knew your character was about to bask in the warm glow of Battle Orders, or Oak Sage, or revel in the murderous boost of speed/damage that was Fanaticism, or that your spells were going to dissect monsters that were down 150% on all of their resistances. Those sorts of huge party bonus skills almost made the ninja looting, PK attempts, and soul-killing idiocy of Battle.net conversation worth enduring.

Won’t we see such party benefits in Diablo 3? Most of us were assuming so, but but we know most of the skills in the game, and so far exactly one has a party benefit. It’s the Barbarian’s Battle Cry, which is basically Shout from D2, boosting the defense of everyone in the party. (While this will be a useful Barbarian skill, its utility as a party skill is uncertain, since Wizards and WDs aren’t tanking, and will probably have such low defense that doubling it would mean nothing to them.)


There’s nothing (yet) in D3 that works like the best party skills did in D2; no known skills will boost the party’s hit points, damage, attack speed, resistances, etc. Nor are there any easily-activated debuffs that will hobble the monsters in fashion that’s useful to everyone. The Witch Doctor has some mind control skills, but these work in a radius from the caster, so only affect monsters near the WD, and they don’t make the monsters easier to kill as did Amplify Damage, Decrepify, Lower Resistance, etc. Furthermore, look at how they work. Horrify makes monsters run away from the WD; imagine your Wizard or Archer is standing on the edge of the screen; where are those monsters likely to run? Right at you, arriving just as the Horrify wears off. That’s not a skill you’re going to be real eager to see any WD casting in a party game.

Party Skills Required?

Does Diablo 3 actually need party skills? Will players play together just because it’s more fun in a group, and it’s easier with a variety of damage types going at the monsters, and since no one’s ninja-snatching all your drops anymore? Or do you want there to be skills coming from other players that actually improve your character, or debuff the monsters?

Jay Wilson changed the complexion of this issue in our recent interview, when he broke the news that we will probably see Auras in Diablo 3, most likely as Monk skills. Auras, by definition, are party-benefiting skills, and could make the Monk the most popular MP character of all. But if the Monk has some awesome, Paladin-like auras, and none of the other characters can do anything for the party other than add damage; would that cause more problems than it cures? Would everyone post “LFG Monk!” notices, while freezing Witch Doctors out of party games since they can’t add anything useful to the group?

It’s too soon to predict, with more skills yet to be revealed, but it is surprising that with all the skills we’ve seen, none of them are clearly “I want someone in my party using this” type abilities. Is the D3 team not thinking about party play yet? The multiplayer gameplay footage we’ve seen is all very “rat race” in style. Multiple characters racing to kill the fastest, without any sign of teamwork or cooperation. Is that their vision for Diablo 3?  Is that a vision you share?


On the Drawing Board is written by Flux. These articles examine crucial game design issues and decisions in Diablo 3 by explaining the issue and presenting arguments for and against. On the Drawing Board aims to spur debate and further the conversation, rather than converting readers to one side or the other. Conversation and disagreement is encouraged. Have your say in the comments, or contact the author directly. Suggestions for future column topics are welcomed.




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Galtrovan
Posted 28, Oct 2009 01:08 PM
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If one class is going to have party friendly skills then all classes should have some party friendly skills.  It does not make sense to do otherwise, to me anyway.

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TheGarden
Posted 28, Oct 2009 02:27 PM
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Well the difference is that they said, with D2, they built the game while having multiplayer in mind. This time with D3 they are building the game up by focusing on single player. I’m sure the MP stuff will come later, still got a long way to go.

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Turin">Turin
Posted 28, Oct 2009 04:34 PM
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I want party skills and I want to play in a party. But probably not in the beginning. Depending on when D3 is released and how my live looks at this time, I wanna play like mad, which is just not working in a party (unless all party-members have exactly the same sparetime to spend like you).

But in the long run, when you know the game by heart and just play because its cool and you wanna get the perfect loot for your character, party is what keeps me playing, because its just more fun.

So hopefully, there will be more party-skills or other things, that benefit playing together smile

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rwhite
Posted 28, Oct 2009 05:40 PM
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Regarding the issue of MF leaching:

With the issue of people joining a party, virtually crippled by MF equipment, and just leeching for good drops by others who do all the damage, as expressed in the article, it seems a simple way to circumvent this problem would be to implement a formula that would determine total MF percentage as a ratio of total damage done in conjunction with the target monsters total HP.  This would eliminate the situation of MF leaching, because leechers would be crippled by their MF equipment and would only deal a negligible amount of damage, which would equate to a very small MF %.  In the same situation, if someone with MF equipment targeted a monster on their own, and therefor dealt a 1:1 ratio of damage to monster HP, the formula would then equate this to 100% of the MF equipments ability. 

Ultimately, it invokes a “you get what you pay for.”  “Get” being the itmes droped, and “pay for” being the damage dealt.

Anyways, you get the idea.

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Kunzaito
Posted 28, Oct 2009 04:44 PM
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I never like these "rewards for damage dealt" ideas, because they have unintended consequences that actually discourage party play. Specifically, a slow melee character like a concentrate or berserk barb paired with a strong AOE character like a frozen orb sorc means the sorc does WAY more damage to way more enemies. And in a world of individual drops, if you receive no drop for a monster you didn't touch or barely touched, well...

 
rwhite
Posted 28, Oct 2009 05:02 PM
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I believe what they are trying to remove in D3 is the primary MFing class, as we saw with the sorc in D2, and have MF be aplicabable to all characters. Another issue is concentrating the damage done by a character by their equipment, not primarily their skills, like the sorc in D2. Because of this, hopefully you wouldn't see a FO sorc type character in D3 that dealt out massive amounts of damage, while others just lingered on to add a few hit points here and there. In such a scenario, then that "reward for damage dealt" would not be good, I agree. I suppose it would all have to come down to making characters equally powerful, with a strong concentration on the items they have equipped. Therefore MF equipment would either have to be limited on a single character, or the character would have to be high lvl and therefor very powerful. I can see the potential downfall of this though, with characters whose primary effort would be supporting a MP group. Maybe we can all build off this concept, though.

 
Galtrovan
Posted 28, Oct 2009 05:51 PM
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MF leaching should not be an issue at all. All D3 has to do is do exactly what D2 does.... apply the MF of the person that gets the killing blow to the drop, which in the case of D3 would be all the drop rolls. Seriously, if the D3 team screws this up (ie. allows MF leaching) when they already have an existing solution, I really don't know what to say about their design decisions/coding skills -- other than they will have made a stupid decision and/or have no coding skills.

 
Kunzaito
Posted 28, Oct 2009 05:41 PM
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I am pretty sure they’re going to end up putting them in, but I wouldn’t be at all sad if they didn’t.

Look at it this way - were party skills essential in D2? There were a good number of characters that could solo 8 player hell games. A band of even moderately equipped characters with complementary skills could steamroll the same. It’s simply not possible to have the enemy difficulty ramp up sufficiently when faced with that kind of firepower, short of 1-hit kills.

I think (or at least hope) the D3 team is a lot more conscious of putting the danger (and thus strategy) back into the game. There are plenty of ways to make cooperation beneficial without having everyone in the party get +300% life. It could be strategically beneficial to attack groups in new ways, or with more types of damage, or just sheer numbers.

In D2, in my opinion, few people were partying because of party skill benefits, especially once o-skills came around. They partied because exp and drops were better together. I feel like that will be the case here regardless if characters can buff each other, and that removing those insane synergies will allow for better balance.

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bluefly
Posted 28, Oct 2009 08:51 PM
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very well said. I would appreciate a more challenging experience (and different aswell) much more when playing in a party than a couple of party friendly skills. There should be multiple incentives to play with a party, not just cool buffs.

 
sourcerror
Posted 31, Oct 2009 08:58 PM
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Agreed. Back in the day when people were playing (the much less party friendly) first Diablo, every Warrior wanted a ranged class by their side, because no matter their level or gear some shooters simply handed their assess to them. And Sorcerers wanted to have a physical damage dealer around to take care of those nasty triple immunes (not the best way to encourage coop, but you get the idea.) In D2, despite the tons of party skills available to almost every class, coop play got reduced to a trying-to-keep-less-than-a-screen-away race even before oSkills pretty much killed this aspect too. Being able to run (silly as it sounds) played a part in this, as well as mercs, who you could outfit and would follow you through all acts (after the expansion.) After these factors any coop that remained was only motivated by the fact that /players 8 wasn't available on the Realms. To create a better coop experience in D3, we don't need coop skills at all. We need situations where coop is necessary (or advantageous at the least.) And of course, immunities are not the answer (they are gone, luckily.) Remember the Crush Beast-Imp combo from Act V? I've always felt that with ranged attacks you should be able to target and dispatch the little suckers, thus greatly decreasing the threat (or nuisance) level of the whole scenario. And ranged classes would benefit from the help of a tank that protects them from the rhino stampede. Or think of the shield-wielding skellies we saw in the GPT. Their chance to block should be high enough to stop the advancement of a hard-hitting melee class long enough for the archer variety to cause some pain from behind their lines. A ranged a party member (or one with teleport or pets that can be summoned up on the other side of the blockade) would come extremely handy. And you don't even need this kind of monster-to-monster cooperation to create challenging situations that can be taken care of in single player, but are easier to tackle in a team. What if the same shielded skelly had a 100% chance to block provided that you are in front of it. Of course, you would be able to get around one fairly easily, but when they come in masses things can get more difficult. Even a single melee guy by your side would prove very helpful in drawing their attention while you stab the bastards in the back. Unfortunately for the coop-minded, and contrary to what JW likes to claim, there is such thing as too much power when it comes to meaningful, enjoyable teamplay. EDIT: Sorry for the eyesore, I can't seem to get in line breaks for some reason.

 
stillman
Posted 28, Oct 2009 10:46 PM
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There is the problem of other players putting pressure on you to use buffs that help them. We’ve all heard “bo plz” and “gimme fanat” spammed. Even if people are asking nicely, it can be annoying just to read this obligatory stuff in every game.
Maybe Blizzard is looking hard at this problem and thinks it is one of those things that lessens MP fun?

In any case, given Blizzard’s way of totally fixing problems d2 had, I’m sure they are treading VERY carefully with party buff considerations.

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Jinky Williams
Posted 30, Oct 2009 10:22 PM
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I love being the party buffer/healer. In every MMO I’ve played (admittedly, few), I’ve always main’d a healer class.

I know that in D3 the balance is not on team synergy anywhere near as much as it is making each character a solid contender on their own.

Still, I’d like to see the groundwork laid for at least the potential of a party-centric build. Maybe it wouldn’t even have to be skill-based, but equipment-based. I think Borderlands did this pretty well with their mods. You could choose party-centric mods (+x to party ammo/health regen/accuracy/reload speed/etc.) or do ones that just benefit you.

In thinking about this, I think that there’s a considerably-higher possibility that, *if* party buffing finds its way into D3, it will come in the form of mod-like things (rings, etc.). But who knows the mind of a Blizzard? All I know is that they will have a mighty-fine, polished time-sink of a game to play when it is released.

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