Exclusive New Info on PvP, Beta Content, and D3 Patches
Posted 30 April 2012 by FluxOur occasional columnist and podcast guest Grug attended the PAX East convention in Boston last week, and took the occasion to stop by the Diablo III demo and spend some time conversing with 
Bashiok. Rather than restating or elaborating on things, I’ll just quote Grug’s email, since he sums things up concisely.
Back at PAX East I got to talk to Micah Whipple one on one in person about Diablo 3. We covered a variety of topics, including the opening experience, progression, and other stuff. I learned a lot.
The beta content is exactly as it will appear in game. Nothing was “withheld” from the beta. All the story content and such that has been mentioned (by Blizzard as kept out of the Beta) was moved after the
The other thing, more interesting, is in regards to PvP. He says that the reason PvP is not going to be with release is because they had not developed it very much. I was told that they had the basic functionality we saw at Blizzcon, but with only two arenas and none of the matchmaking or progression infrastructure they wanted. As was said in the press release, it came down to releasing the game or stalling for another few months.
In terms of post release support, there will NOT be any content updates aside from PVP post release. They will still make balance adjustments and bug fixes, but new dungeons, quests, and such will not happen. This is because Diablo 3 is a single box product and will be supported similarly to Diablo 2.
A few commenters have questioned if this is legit. I think so; I know Grug and know that he knows Bashiok personally. Note that Grug is a very active poster on the B.net forums, and is mentioned by name by Bashiok in this thread. It’s possible that Grug misheard or misremembered something between PAX and writing me this email, but he’s as knowledgeable about this stuff as anyone in the Diablo community, so I think we can take his report as accurate.
Bashiok’s comments about PvP and patch content are interesting but very straight-forward, so I don’t have anything to add to them. I am surprised by the info about the beta being identical in content to the full game, since it shoots down a theory that a lot of players have speculated about since the beta began. The theory is that the Diablo 3 Beta is much different in form than the full game. I wrote about it back in October, with credit to Grug for first pointing out several of the points of evidence.
Click through for more analysis of that issue:
Naturally, you’re encouraged to read the original article, but here’s a quick summary, mostly quoted from the original. (The only things in that article that are now out of date are the mentions of the three inventory items, since Blizzard removed the Nephalem Cube and the Cauldron of Jordan some months ago. However, the Town Portal in the game now has the same problem of being abruptly and inexplicably granted by a quest reward that the Stone of Recall did back in the day.)
In light of those issues, which seem the same now as they did back in September and October when beta testers knowledgeable about the larger plot and story of Act One first noticed them, I’m genuinely surprised to hear that the Beta is essentially identical to the full game.
Perhaps the additional story content in the full game makes the sequence of events more logical, but it seems weird to me that we get a few early lore books and one short cinematic about Leoric, battle him, defeat him, and then spend most of the rest of Act One clearing levels like Leoric’s Torture Chamber, Leoric’s Jail, and Leoric’s Manor. Other content found later in Act One includes the ghostly in-game cinematic of Queen Alyssa‘s beheading, the discovery of lore books by Lachdanan and Lazarus, and several other Leoric-related things I won’t mention because SPOILERS.
All of which are fine for game content, but all of which seem, to me, like content that would be best delivered before we battle Leoric, as knowing more about his madness and evil would add much more dramatic heft and importance to the battle.
Apparently not, and some readers in comments have offered reasonable counter theories, that having faced Leoric, we’ll find all the rest of the content related to him more interesting.
Oh its accurate all right. They just plan on selling us all the content that didnt make it, in the first expansion. Looks like BLizz is taking lessons from EA
Blizzard showed us the Talisman and the mystic at the Blizzcons but now they are planning to add those in the expansion pack which will not be released until at least 1,5 years? That really sucks.
It’s going to be like D2X. No content additions in patches (other than PvP) and then an expansion that’s huge with tons of new stuff. that totally changes the game in one fell swoop.
D3 is getting a different philosophy than with MMORPGs like WoW, where the monthly fee entitles players to regular content updates + big expansion packs every now and then.
I could have sworn they promised free content updates in the past. Whatevs i guess. I can’t deny i will take their **** and i will like it.
Edit: btw, there’s some kind of bug with using the blockquote html tag (possibly others). When i submit the post, it doesn’t work, but if i Edit, then Update it without changing anything, the blockquote tag then works.
Depends on what you consider content. In d2 there was content added in patches but they weren’t new areas, no monsters etc. They were new and changed items, new UI functions, the Pandemonium event, etc. Yes that’s added content, but not like an expansion.
That said, despite what Bashiok said and Flux reiterated here, I’d be surprised if Blizzard doesn’t turn around on this. They could make minor side content areas/side quests as cheap DLC, not required for the canon game but perhaps to flesh out the characters’ back stories, add PvP game modes/arenas, etc., separate from the expansion pack. A lot of these side items could be guided by the stuff presented in lore books and help to sell those books as well. People could use their money they get from the auction house to buy this DLC…It just makes too much sense for them not to do it.
The only “content” they said they may add in patches is items. This statement doesn’t contradict that, as items are not considered “content” on their own. Content is new areas, new abilities, things like that.
For me, it is completely logical. Even in Diablo 1 Leoric was not end boss of whole cathedral. Whole Act I plot in D3 is about the Fallen Star, not Leoric madness. So killing him so early is not bad idea, it gives player a taste of what is to come in terms of bosses. I think main villain of Act I will be someone completely different altogether.
Spine, I have noticed this as well. Flux seems to dislike almost everything about Diablo 3, which is kinda surprising keeping in mind he is running a fan site about the game.
If you look at diablofans.com the tone of news and attitude of commenters is alot more positive. The only downside is frequency of news posting.
Thumbs down for Flux again.
Reading diablofans is like reading us.battle.net/d3/en , straight from the “official” game guide.
Nothing new or interesting to discuss.
Yes, Flux criticise a lot but that’s how his standards are. Every author/critic/scribe/writer has his/her own way of expression things.
On the other hand, the other writers here tend to be very positive about the game and its systems.
Lots of readers tell us that they enjoy this site precisely because we’re not trying to upsell you on everything. We’re here to provide news and analysis of D3; not talk you into buying a 2nd copy. That means we sometimes say game feature X is less than perfect, and if so try to provide some reason for our opinion.
That said, I’m not sure what people are saying is negative about this article? It shares some interesting new info, and maybe people are blaming the messenger for bad news, since they’re unhappy to learn that we won’t get content in patches.
If you’re such a devoted Bliz fan that you’re offended by someone questioning whether the structure of Act One’s storytelling is ideal, I don’t know what to say. Even people who really like Diablo 3 are going to have opinions about ways in which it could be better, or different. It’s a big, bad world out there. Other people are going to have opinions you don’t always agree with.
FWIW, nothing in this article stood out as blatantly negative. But maybe i’ve been hardened/blinded by reading all your news posts.
Cynical and sometimes pessimistic. Love it!
Meh. A lack of critique shows disinterest.
My thoughts exactly. White Knight-ery is a cancer to this industry.
There was a day when it wasn’t called “complaining” but “giving feedback”.
I and a lot of others come here because I don’t just hear praise when I read this stuff. None of the content Flux or incgamers makes is delivered the way you describe it: “Blizzard is making a sucky game so our Blizzard fansite is here to tell people how much it sucks.”
Rather, it’s delivered in a funny/playful mocking, challenging, or intentionally objective manner.
AliFawidDuh, A good portion of your comments have been negative about this site over the months. You visit frequently to post in a news item about how you don’t like the tone of a news item. I’m letting your offtopic post remain in here only because flux has responded. If you have genuine feedback put it in the feedback forum where it belongs.
The only advice is stop it. Stop putting yourself through this, your requirements can easily be met by a handful of other sites out there who provide all that you can get here. So rather than taking time out of your day to keep telling us the same thing, spend it doing something else you enjoy.
Nobody’s talking about how he said that there will be no content patches or whatnot. They’re monetizing the game via. AH but won’t be continuing work? Wouldn’t they benefit from regularly added items? The biggest spenders will eventually max out and stop spending as much.
Oh god no. Diablo is not CoD and thankfully they don’t plan turning it into one. This was my biggest fear that there will be DLCs for Diablo 3. I don’t want any content past release that I will have to pay for, only bug fixes.
So you won’t buy an expansion pack?
I’d be all over DLC that added in new events.
Perhaps, -gasp-, they’re not as money-grubbing as some had initially thought?
It’s been a while, and I could be wrong, but I don’t think the original Diablo added anything like a content patch before LoD hit, and after that it was pretty much just Uber-Diablo (which could be considered a “bug fix” if having a SOJ-flooded economy can be considered a bug).
Yup, it must have been a while, since if i recall correctly, none other diablo game had post launch revenue streams implemented into the game. D3 has, and to no supprise, it won’t offer any content in return. There goes the pro-rmah argument about post-launch content…
We are getting something in return, though: characters that don’t expire. That’s a big deal to a lot of people, myself included. If the RMAH is used towards that goal, well, it isn’t justified, but at least it’s a plus.
Ok, i might have worded it to strongly. I meant it won’t offer any content similar to say, WoW patches (but understandably smaller). As condescending as it might sound, lots of folks were naive enough to think that RMAH = you’re entitled to new content patches. I’m suprised that backlash about this is minimal. Also, i’m suprised that noone in Blizzard clarified this earlier then 2 freaking weeks before the release of game.
I’m guessing this is their current plan based on estimations that the RMAH and Gold AH will continue to function well through the expansion…
But after the expansion if there is indeed a lot of gold inflation, RMAH deflation, and players stopping after they max out their characters, then you can bet Blizzard will turn around on this and create new, more powerful items to go find/sell.
in the incgamers stream today, Bowzer made it sound like there was some big secret the streamers knew about why PvP wasn’t in, but they weren’t allowed to talk about
I really don’t know what you’re getting at here…
If you’re trying to say this was the big secret…well, I don’t know, it doesn’t seem like any kind of a big secret. I didn’t hear what you’re talking about but I bet you were picking up on them trying to keep from talking about something spoilery…
I hadn’t told anyone but Elly about this info before it was posted, so they weren’t referring to this.
Rumors through the g****vine asserted that PvP was simply not developed, with almost no work done on it since last year’s Blizzcon, so they might have been referencing that fact, which seems confirmed by Grug’s email here.
Hahaha, g r a p e vine got censored. Love it.
Actually, it seems a little funny to me to let Leoric’s story advance too far before we beat him. Allowing us to meet King Leoric mostly sane through the lore at the same time as we defeat his husk reminds us of his humanity as we set to killing him. If Leoric’s already a broken mad, husk in the lore by the time we defeat him, then the battle actually loses dramatic tension because his death as the Skeleton King feels, if anything, more right and necessary. The effect of reflecting on his humanity is extended by allowing his memory to haunt us for the rest of the Act. We defeat the monster, but can’t defeat the memories or save the past. I think it sounds daunting. Which is the right idea.
If that’s the intention, then it’s very clever.
If not, you should be writing for Blizzard. Great analysis!
I am also surprised by this as I thought the beta was not act I. Especially the Templar quest as he appears with cultists that are seen nowhere else in the beta. I thought this was “copy-pasted” from a later part of the game to introduce the Templar and allow us to play with him during the beta. I hope this is just another mistake by Bash and that, as I thought it was, beta is just different parts of act one “glued” together but not the real act one as it should unfold in the final game.
…Bashiok could have forgotten about Templar/that they moved him, but not about the pace and the timing of the huge events like the Skeleton King.
“The Skeletooon Kiiiing?!!” – Cain after seeing the Skeleton King.
Bad writing. That says it all.
You need to remember that the Skeleton King was defeated in D1 and Cain would know about this.
no new content =( im sad. i was very much looking forward to new items and a bit new content (like uberquest) every few months
It is amazing how far the gaming community has come. 5 years ago the community would have been up in arms if a company monetized new content between expansions, now people are upset that they will NOT be getting any new content between expansions.
It wasn’t really a stretch to imagine that they would offer some kind of content patches (obviously way smaller in scope than WoW’s) seeing they will have a steady stream of income from the RMAH.
But oh well, not really surprised that they won’t seeing the company decision makers consist of a bunch of asshats nowdays.
Expansions are DLC. The difference you’re talking about is only a matter of scope/amount of changes required for our hard-earned money, and not only is the delivery of content much easier now but companies are much better at gauging what’s worth it to us than they were before. I don’t think peoples’ opinions have changed…they are still opposed to spending as much as they would on a boxed expansion for few changes to the game, are still opposed to feeling required to spend money on minor thing in order to keep up/compete, and are opposed to companies holding back content they already have created in order to monetize it later on.