Children + RMAH = Disaster / Litigation?
Posted 21 April 2012 by FluxA fan brought up news about an ongoing lawsuit against Apple that’s got some interesting RMAH implications. The topic was, of course, immediately Blue-blocked on Battle.net, but since it’s worth discussing, and since you’re reading this site since you want the whole news and the freedom to discuss it, here’s a quote:
A group of California parents unhappy with Apple over money they didn’t know their children were spending in games has now gotten the go-ahead from a California judge to proceed with a class action lawsuit against the company.
The suit revolves around “game currencies” — real money used within games to buy coins or other in-game tools — that the parents claim children purchased without their knowledge.
…
Apple has argued that the issue should be dismissed as the in-app purchases were stated in the Terms & Conditions signed by the parents before purchasing the app, “thus making the individuals purchases not voidable.” However, Judge Edward Davila ruled against Apple’s request to dismiss the case. That doesn’t mean the parents have prevailed, but it does mean that both Apple and the parents will continue to pay for this fight.
This issue has often come up in conversation about the 
RMAH in Diablo III, as players point out the potential for abuse by children and others who may be legally-incompetent to make such real money transactions. Obviously buying items in the D3 RMAH isn’t the same sort of predatory bait and switch scam as the “free to play” Smurf Village example cited in the news piece, but it’s inevitable that someone will try to get their money back and/or file lawsuits against Blizzard over some RMAH purchase they claim they didn’t mean to make, or didn’t realize was a real money purchase when they made it.
It’s not the same thing, but the ultimate legal scenario is the “bought RMAH for Hardcore, lost it all when the realm crashed.” That one seemed ruled out when Real Money Trading was not included in Hardcore, but as Jay Wilson has recently said they probably will put RMAH in HC after launch, it might one day be back on the table.
Also, note the last paragraph of the news. No matter how much software company lawyers wish it were so, requiring customers to click “agree” on something outrageous in the ToS or EULA does not guarantee that a court won’t overturn it. Those agreements have been struck down by courts on numerous occasions, especially in the still-evolving area of digital rights and properties.
Completely different scenario, because on an Apple device you use the same payment method to buy everything, and it’s tied to your device. So you might be fine with your kid buying the odd $1 app, but not OK with them buying $200 of in-game currency in said app… but there’s no set distinction between the two.
My understanding of the D3 RMAH is that you will have a seperate balance used ONLY for the RMAH. Thus, as a parent, you could put in as much or as little money as you want and that’s all the child could use. And they could ONLY use it for that purpose. Unless they have access to your credit card, in which case it’s irrelevant since they could buy anything they want online anyway.
You’ve gotta be a pretty stupid parent in the first place to be giving your kids access to your credit cards…
Or Diablo.
I never said “give”.
Yeah, I mean for D3 you must inject money with your Credit card, there are also parental protection on the account. Its very easy to not allow your kid to buy items (other than with the money he won himself).
There is no argument here.
Diablo 3 is Rated M for Mature. According to the ESRB, it is meant for 17+ age players. There is no way in hell Blizzard should be accountable if a parent let his kid play, nor if a store sold it to kids.
The game is meant for adults with adult implications. It is a totally different ballgame with Apple wherein kids can access childish games and buy in-game items with real cash.
Bottom line is, children shouldn’t have access with D3. There is no lawsuit in the world that can bring Blizzard down because of it. It is like blaming a company that make guns if kids suddenly started playing with them.
Though I don’t think it is comparable to Apple because you have to actually apply the CC to the account, the game’s rating is irrelevant. The ESRB rating is a guide, not a legal restriction. As a parent you can legally give a 3 year old an M rated game, there is no law about it. Much like a child can watch an R rated movie if a parent gives it to them.
So if you’re a bad parent and give your 6 y.old a game that uses real money and is rated M , you should also suffer the consequences without bitching about it and suing companies that release the games.
Plus, Cash Shops aren’t exacly new, and this should be connected to Cash Shops more rather then the RMAH.
See, the thing about “bad parents” is that they rarely want to take personal responsibility for anything (hence making them bad at parenting, which requires a lot of responsibility). What they “should” do is a lot less relevant than what they could or will do.
Like I said, I don’t think they should be liable, especially since they’d have to connect the account manually, but ESRB ratings are irrelevant in this case.
Wrong. The ESRB rating IS a restriction, for the sellers point of view anyway.
While it is true that no rating in the world can prevent kids to do whatever they want, the responsibility lies on the sellers, the store, the people that provides them.
A gaming store shouldn’t, at all means, sell a rated-M game to a little boy. A movie theatre shouldn’t let kids watch an R-rated movie. A beer store shouldn’t sell kids to minors.. The list goes on.
The ESRB rating is designed for the adults. To let them know what is ok and what is not ok to sell. It is a restriction, and a damn good one at that.
While there is no law that can stop (really stop) underage kids in doing the banned stuff, there is one can give Gamestop trouble if they sell rated-M to minors. And if push comes to shove, the blame will go to the sellers and institutions for not upholding the age requirement.
He’s not “wrong” at all. The ESRB is not a restriction, at least not in the US, and the US Supreme Court has prevented laws that would prohibit the sales of M-rated games to children. This is different in other areas – it varies by province in Canada, and some areas restrict the sale of R-rated movies to minors – but that’s how it works in the US.
The ESRB is not intended as a system to restrict merchants. The ESRB is designed for parents as a way to quickly gauge the content of a game and decide for themselves whether or not it’s appropriate for their children. From the ESRB’s own website:
“The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) ratings are designed to provide concise and impartial information about the content in computer and video games so consumers, especially parents, can make an informed purchase decision.”
“Bottom line is, children shouldn’t have access with D3.”
That, however, doesn’t hold up in court. Nor do I think it holds up morally, either. If a parent thinks their 14-year-old is mature enough to handle images of sex and violence, it’s well within their right to let their child see M- or R-rated content. Not all children are incapable of handling that sort of imagery, and the parents are the ones who ought to make that decision.
Also, as pong pointed out, the ESRB does nothing to prevent lawsuits.
Diablo 3 is rated M in US and 16+/18+ in the rest of the world, so if children will play and buy everything on RMAH its kinda their parents fault. Its easier to blame the company, not ignorance of parents that doesnt care what their childern are doing. I know that majority of players will be less than 18, but still this doesnt justify parents that lets f.e 10 year old play Diablo…
Another fail thread by Flux. As the 2 above people pointed out, D3 is rated M, so why would kids even play the game. If they lose money by playing the AH, it’s the parents fault in the first place that they bought the game for their kids.
You know as well as I do that there are a whoooole lot of people who are under the age of 17 that will be playing D3.
how ignorant are you…do you really believe that being a rated M game stops people under the age of 17 from playing the game?
of course not, but it doesn’t matter..
Plus, Blizzard’s Parent Control. WILL be integrated with the RMAH function
This topic has been BLOCKED by the Megacorps.
How has this even become Appel’s fault? Seriously, raise your kid better, or don’t pay their phone bills.
Usually i don’t spew bile, but damn I get hot headed when I hear stories like this. Take some responsibility over your life and stop pushing laying in on the shoulders of others.
Yeah, i’d like to see you try to make a 7 year old to understand the value of money…
If anything the parents where stupid for letting the kids play unsupervised when it came to a game where you can buy stuff with money…
The issue here, and the reason for the lawsuit, is that these games/apps advertise themselves as **FREE**, so at a glance a parent won’t think they have anything to worry about. Then, inside the game, the kid will have some option to “Get more Jellybeans!” (or whatever). They click, a bunch of fine print comes up that they don’t bother to read, and all of a sudden their parents are out by $1000.
The question (that the courts will deal with) is whether or not these products are deceptive to consumers, and whether Apple does an adequate job of communicating how these apps can have other costs to the consumer. Most of these parents believed that the products – based on how these games present themselves – are free, so it’s not a question of the parents intentionally leaving their kids unsupervised with something they know might cost money, it’s a question of whether these parents were deceived in a way that warrants legal action.
So, terrible parents are suing a company with their main argument against the company being that they are terrible parents.
“Yes, judge, my child went ahead and bought 100$ worth of games on Apple device, using the credit card I gave him/her in a pathetic atempt to seem like a somewhat good parent by giving my children everything they ask for, as long as it is of material nature, because actually caring for my children and listening to them and involving myself in their life is too difficult. I, of course, wasn’t aware of this problems untill about a week later, bacause I haven’t spoken to my child in that time, because I am such a great parent.”
To quote Einstein: “Two things are infinite, the universe and the human stupidity. And I am not certain about the universe.” It must be so great to be parent today. You don’t have to do anything for or, god forbid, with your children, you aren’t responsilbe for anything in your child’s life. Child is depressed? Video games have obviously made him like that. Child is agressive? Video games, rap and/or metal music. Child is unhappy? Clearly it hasn’t learned to love the lord yet, so more beating, um, “teachings” are due. You don’t have to talk to your children either, because, of course, in this bad economy, I have to work so hard that I can completly ignore my child when I come home. And then sue some company when my neglected, possibly abused, ignored child does something bad. Possibly with my weapon. That I keep fully loaded in a place that is widly known around household, and that has easy access for children.
God, I hate people sometimes. This is one of those times.
You need to read a bit more closely. These kids aren’t buying $100 worth of “games”. They install a “free” game with in-game costs that aren’t advertised or communicated at the time of purchase. The kid doesn’t know that they’re spending money any more than the parent does, because the game was “free”.
Tell me, when was the last time you read the entirety of your Apple terms of service in its entirety when you updated iTunes?
Easy. Rated M game – Win 7 makes it easy to create a user account with Parental Controls below that age.
Just tell your kid to come get your permission before playing D3 and that you will kick their ass if they buy anything on RMAH.
It’s called parenting.
If parents are stupid enough to let there kids have access to the parents bank account/paypal then its there own stupid fault if the kids start spending money.
As other posters have pointed out there will be a many under 17′s playing, I personally I looking forward to kids playing with there parents money, I’ll be right there to supply them with all the gear they want.
For a price