Bashiok on Health Globe Drops from Bosses

Posted 8th Jun 2009 10:14 PM by Flux

A fan asked how healing and health globes would be handled during long boss fights. The D3 Team has previously said that bosses would cough them up periodically during such combats, and Bashiok replied to restart that,with a bit of added info.

Blizzard Quote:
There are a lot of different ways to do it, and it’s likely that the way we give health will be tailored to the style of the encounter and behavior of each boss.

Another fan jumped in and brought up some (I think) fairly reasonable problems with this method. A partial quote with formatting and grammar fixes:

Do we have to understand that health will flow in a scripted manner? Like, dodging Leoric’s enraged mace swing when he’s at 30%, mace landing in a big pillar which collapses thus releasing health Orbs ...etc? I really hope it is not what you mean.

Health regain has to be, for the most part, managed by the player. Not by scripted events. Hell, people cry about WoW’s possible influence on D3 but they should watch out for God of War ones…. Add WoW drop lists for each boss and you’ve got the worst case scenario. No replayability. Don’t take me wrong, GoW is very good game, but one you play once, maybe twice and that’s it.

Chances for orbs to drop ‘on hit’ is unbalanced toward fast-hitting skills, thus penalizing slow and powerful strike/spells. Else they do it ala Proc Per Minute, but then you have a constant and predictable flow of Health Orbs which kills the excitement. Screw scripts! Leave things in the hands of players! And in the hand of Randomness too!

You dont give us health, you give us the means to manage it. Its very different.

Bashiok was less than enchanted with this recitation of woes,and replied accordingly.

Blizzard Quote:
Well, regardless of what the end product is let’s just agree that you’ll be negative and immediately critical of it.

Update: The Bash-master returned for more later in the day, with a more substantial explanation/argument about boss fighting mechanics.

Blizzard Quote:

Even if i know that D2 Diablo is going to Red Lightning Hose me, Cold Touch me, i dont know exactly when, how many times etc.

Bashiok: I hope you’re not calling that an interesting fight, or saying Diablo II was replayable because it had no mechanics beyond the boss’ abilities.

In Diablo III we want at least some boss fights that aren’t defined simply by having a creature with more health, unique art, and more powerful abilities. We want there to be something more to them, tell a story, have more unique mechanics that make sense for the boss.

As far as the original topic, when health globes could be delivered during a boss fight, there’s really no limit for how they could be delivered. Take the King Leoric fight, they were delivered through creatures that he summoned, normal skeletons. Every boss could essentially have the same thing, normal enemies around him that can be killed for the potential at getting a health globe drop. Or, you could have something more interesting ... like a boss that does a special attack that has the ability to break open some large corpse storage tanks that are in his lair. The player has to lead the boss to the tank and try to invoke the special attack so he’ll break the tank open, which unleashes some health globes. You could even treat the tank (code-wise) as a normal creature, meaning abilities and items could augment the number that drop and amount they heal, etc. giving some control to the individual player. If you don’t need the health you can ignore the mechanic, but it could be a way for players to try to game the boss and make sure they can survive the fight. Totally hypothetical, we don’t have a fight that resembles what I described, but it’s a possible delivery system.

I disagree that having bosses that do something more than simply cast the spells they’re given to cast kills replayability.




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Filed under: Blue Posts, Bashiok

Comments

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nasarius
Posted 08, Jun 2009 11:42 PM
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Bit glib and dismissive, even for Bashiok.

The obvious answer to me is to cough up health orbs based on damage taken by the boss. For example, at each 5% mark (95%, 90%, 85%...), there’s a certain chance to drop an orb. Maybe it takes you many hits to deal that damage, maybe you get a critical hit for 15% and three chances all at once.

Anything complex or scripty or otherwise customized is, as the response suggests, going to force certain tactics. But damaging a boss seems neutral and functionally equivalent to killing a minor monster.

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Synchrotron
Posted 08, Jun 2009 11:51 PM
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Geez!! Why people always ask the same questions? Bashiok already answered that stuff about health globes dropping periodically in boss fights….

Anyway, I still hate the globes, I can live with them but I think it is dumb.

I cant accept that the only reason for their existence is for balancing the “potion overdose” from previous diablos. There are like 100 different measures that could be used to prevent this kind of situation.

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Mikeztarp
Posted 09, Jun 2009 01:49 AM
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Is it me or does Bashiok seems cranky lately? Although I guess I would get snappy if people asked me the same questions and criticised my work without reason over and over again. :/

As for the health globe problem, why limit it to only one system? There are several valid ideas, they can probably be combined if properly balanced.

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Mackan
Posted 09, Jun 2009 02:28 AM
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I think the health globe system isn’t giving me a 100% good feeling yet. But, know way too little about the game anyways.

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Krugar
Posted 09, Jun 2009 02:35 AM
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It was a reasonable question from a fan. Bashiok reply was uncalled for.

I have to admit too the whole health globe system is the one thing that didn’t convince me yet. I’m confused as to why choose such a complicated method—and such an hard one to balance—when a potion system without rejuvs would suffice. Is it that they took players complaining about pot spamming literally?

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Galtrovan
Posted 09, Jun 2009 03:56 AM
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What’s wrong with putting a cool-down timer on potions to prevent spamming?  I’m not sold on the globes either.

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jerrre
Posted 09, Jun 2009 04:44 AM
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Flux, you should include in this the big informative answer that Bashiok finally gave in that thread, since it is much more important than moderator-related forum drama really.

There he hypothesized a scenario where destructible environments yield health globes that you must lure particular boss monsters in to unlock. Etc. Quite intriguing.

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Flux
Posted 09, Jun 2009 05:48 AM
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Flux, you should include in this the big informative answer that Bashiok finally gave in that thread, since it is much more important than moderator-related forum drama really.

He hadn’t made it when I did the initial post, and then I was at the gym for a while. But I checked to see if he’d said more later, and it’s been added in now.

On the initial post, yes, he was pretty short and dismissive, but as others have pointed out, he reads the same questions 500x a day, and gets tired of explaining himself and the same issues over and over again. Also, have you guys ever tried to read posts in teh battle.net forums? They’re a little better these days now that registration is required, but the level of discourse is still generally horrendous.

Furthermore, Bashiok is limited by the fact that he knows far more about the game than he can say. I’m sure he could talk about some health globe dropping issues they’ve worked on, and ways they’ve experimented and changed, and some of the cool examples in the game now, etc. But he’s not allowed to give out new info like that, so he has to find ways to interact without spilling secrets. Hence turning to jokes and personality and such.  For better or worse.

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Grumpy Old Wizard
Posted 09, Jun 2009 05:52 AM
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I’ll wait for more infor on the health globe systeme to gripe too much about it. I do think it is going to be very hard to balance for all the different kinds of characters.

Some characters are going to kill more slowly than others and are likely to take more damage than quicker killers. If there is not a way to get continual drops of globes they may have a hard time indeed.

I just don’t want it be like, “Oh crap, the boss got in a huge hit on me and I’m just starting the battle. No chance to win it now. Exit and try from the beginning.”

Yeah health globes hidden in destructable items might help but if you have a fast moving boss on your tail what are the odds you’ll have time to run around attacking the environment when you are low on health?

Now from an rpg aspect, I would much prefer health potions to the globe concept. But maybe some reason is given in the story for the globes.

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Telzen
Posted 09, Jun 2009 06:09 AM
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Galtrovan,

Cause then when someone was low on health they would just retreat until the cooldown was up. But with the globes you have to stay in combat and continue killing so you can get the means to heal yourself.

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